(Discussion) The Unprecedented Stated of MK11

[Juggs]

You know, y’all could always just, like... stop playing. I know that sounds like an insane proposition. But for me, you know, personally and all, if I stop enjoying a game, I stop playing said game. I don’t go on rants or anything about all the things that I want to see changed so that I will start showing interest again. I just quit and move on. At the end of the day no one really cares about my complaints. I mean, seriously.

I certainly wouldn’t call other people who enjoy the game homers or shills because they happen to disagree with me. Maybe back when I was an immature teenager, idk. You know, Live and let live and all.

 

[ismael4790]

You know, y’all could always just, like... stop playing. I know that sounds like an insane proposition. But for me, you know, personally and all, if I stop enjoying a game, I stop playing said game. I don’t go on rants or anything about all the things that I want to see changed so that I will start showing interest again. I just quit and move on. At the end of the day no one really cares about my complaints. I mean, seriously.

I certainly wouldn’t call other people who enjoy the game homers or shills because they happen to disagree with me. Maybe back when I was an immature teenager, idk. You know, Live and let live and all.

From someone who dropped mk11 for a lot of reasons and couldn't care less about it, just want to say that I think that actually it is a tradition that the situation you mention works in both senses: when a game is new, apparently pointing out its problems makes those who do it scrubs, and they are told to shut up, get good etc, by those who happen to like (or pretend to like) such game state.

By default it is seen as scrubby to point out what's wrong with the game, and being quiet makes you cooler. However, history proves that sometimes the concerns were legit and are only taken into account when it's too late.

 

[theotherguy]

It's not even a "we got what we asked for but didn't know what that meant" situation at this point. There were tons of people ready to burn NRS to the ground if variations returned, now we wan't infinite variations. We hated MKX, IN2, but now we loved them so much more than today's game, and why can't things just be MK9?

They could have made exactly what people wanted and people would still complain. It may not be the same ones as now, but there will be some group that is going to complain. Either "it's like MK9 all over again? If i wanted to play MK9 i'd play MK9", or "XXX still isn't in it, i'm not buying the game", "XXX doesn't have this move, or is too powerful, or combo isn't a 50/50".

Someone will complain.

I just want to say that the "combo route freedom" thing is a bill. Everyone will find the optimal combo in one day then always go for that or the most-consistent highest damaging combo. It will always be starter -> launcher -> optimal juggle -> ender. No one goes for different shit every time just for the sake of it.

Apparently everyone here is all about the swag, never about optimal.

I understand that having an extra option or two may mix things up. But if they both lead to the same damage output and don't give a positional advantage, then really there's no reason to try path A over B, especially if one is easier.

 

[xenogorgeous]

no way ... this game (MK11) , despite its owns problems, is miles ahead better than MK9 and MKX, so, seems doing ok at competitive level, seems stable regarding attracting interest with .... there is 26+ characters to be picked up and some very curious gameplay mechanics ..... so, there is room for exploration yet for this game

What I would love to see more, could be that some pro players tryin to be more audacious, taking more risks, kinda , picking up different characters and trying to win some major tourney with, to bring insane hype on the table .... but this is an natural issue with others previous MK games too as well; players want to play safe all the time due the money prize on the line, and so, what perhaps would happen is that fans get bored not with the game itself, but, seeing and watching over and over again, the same characters being played to death during all the competitive season, during the game life cycle .....

 

[theotherguy]

When I try to recall when I had the most fun with the game, it was beta. The feeling of exploration, walking forward completely blind and just messing around with different builds were really really fun

BUT, it was also a brand new game to you, new systems to learn, new combos, character traits, moves, combo paths etc. It's a lot more to learn then compared to 4+months in when you already understand the fundamentals of the game and other people have already broken down a good portion of the characters and their abilities. Why bother trying to come up with a setup or combo that gets 35% when there's already a decent BnB that's 33%?

Of course there's always those that love getting in the lab and looking for that something extra, but when 90% don't do that, of course you're never going to see anything that's dramatically different all the time.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Gimmicks all gimmicks. Nothing that will make him any better than bottom 2.

Coupled with other things it might but you can say that about almost every character. Think about skarlet with killer clot or scorp with misery blade et cetera. I just hope we get to explore these at a competitive level.

 

[Marlow]

Coupled with other things it might but you can say that about almost every character. Think about skarlet with killer clot or scorp with misery blade et cetera. I just hope we get to explore these at a competitive level.

That'd be cool. But will people still be cool with it when someone figures out some actual legit broken variations with Customs, and we start seeing online and top 8's dominated at times by a few select characters spamming their same one thing over and over? I'm just saying there are pro's and con's to making that decision. Even if NRS was to do monthly balance patches there'd still probably be long stretches of time with people having to deal with some broke buck wild shenanigans.

 

[ExpectFlames]

[/QUOTE]

no way ... this game (MK11) , despite its owns problems, is miles ahead better than MK9 and MKX, so, seems doing ok at competitive level, seems stable regarding attracting interest with .... there is 26+ characters to be picked up and some very curious gameplay mechanics ..... so, there is room for exploration yet for this game

What I would love to see more, could be that some pro players tryin to be more audacious, taking more risks, kinda , picking up different characters and trying to win some major tourney with, to bring insane hype on the table .... but this is an natural issue with others previous MK games too as well; players want to play safe all the time due the money prize on the line, and so, what perhaps would happen is that fans get bored not with the game itself, but, seeing and watching over and over again, the same characters being played to death during all the competitive season, during the game life cycle .....

I would agree with you IF I didn't just see sonic and ninja do an hour long set in tekken. 6months the games been out and for all of its touted depth and unseen tech to learn the best players in the world would rather play a different game entirely. M2daves pod they talk about how they havent picked it up in months. This idea that the pro scene (which for some reason people brag for who arnt there) is somehow expanding is selection bias pure and simple.

 

[Marlow]

I would agree with you IF I didn't just see sonic and ninja do an hour long set in tekken. 6months the games been out and for all of its touted depth and unseen tech to learn the best players in the world would rather play a different game entirely.

At the same time, these guys are grinding pretty heavy on MK11, maybe it's just nice to take a break and pop in something else every once in awhile. It doesn't mean they'd rather stop playing MK11 entirely, or that they're not enjoying MK11.

 

[Sutter Pain]

At the same time, these guys are grinding pretty heavy on MK11, maybe it's just nice to take a break and pop in something else every once in awhile. It doesn't mean they'd rather stop playing MK11 entirely, or that they're not enjoying MK11.

Playing devils advocate but sf could just be playing for the money.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

I agree. Variation system is the biggest hand break of this game. Main reason why this game cannot hook me up like previous titles. Characters feel dry like a bone. You don't really feel rewarded for putting time into character. Of course you getting better as a player, but you don't feel you are growing with your character. There is so little character specific stuff in this game, so literally when you feel that character you play is holding you back you can switch with little to no effort and produce better results with different character literally day after. Customs would probably help a little. When I try to recall when I had the most fun with the game, it was beta. The feeling of exploration, walking forward completely blind and just messing around with different builds were really really fun. For sure allowing customs in competetive play would make us occupied for a while. 3rd variation will literally change nothing if they won't rework current ones. For most of characters best abilities are already equiped in one of 2 variations. So if they gonna build 3rd variations using unused moves for now, probably only few characters would benefit. I messed a lot with Kitana custom moves. The unused ones are trash. If I was building custom for Kitana I would combine abilities from highborn and fan-fare. Maybe add low fan.
As a viewer I also feel kinda bored. Rivarlies are good, best players really play out of their mind and top 8 are really stack, but it's thanks to players not the game. During MKX and even Injustice 2 I felt most tournaments I was watching something new. I could tell if that's HappyPow's Flash or Honeybee's Flash. Here I am watching Deoxys Geras and other Geras players and the only thing that makes them different is skill. They literally doing the same things, just Deoxys performs better in neutral and makes better decisions.
I am not saying Injustice 2 was better, but it for sure had more character flavor - and even then we were complaining about characters not being deep enough and counterpicking working better than being a character specialist.
MKX variatons system worked better. Because game was designed around variations. Here I don't know what was the design. I would not be suprised if they wanted customs to be allowed from the start, but during development they realized they won't be able to balance it on time. And here we reaching the problem with allowing custom. I am afraid there will be some broken presets and it would require NRS actively adjusting them. It could colide with tournament schedule. And that's might be the reason why they holding back.

I really hope NRS will drop variations, equipable moves and spliting playerbase for competetive and casual in future games. It does not work well. For both casuals and competetive players. 2 games in a row.

You make a very interesting point. At the highest level the meta is almost the same. Characters look different but at the end of the day the strategies are relatively the same.

 

[ExpectFlames]

At the same time, these guys are grinding pretty heavy on MK11, maybe it's just nice to take a break and pop in something else every once in awhile. It doesn't mean they'd rather stop playing MK11 entirely, or that they're not enjoying MK11.

I never said they hated it or that they shouldn't take breaks it's the irony of the argument that mk11 is deep. The last 2 tourney winners have the luxury of not seeking tech. I dont know if I can find another game like that. People make mk11 out like its tekken or Dota levels of meta or something.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

5 months after mkx was released the hype levels and interest of people in the game were very high.

5 months have passed since mk11 was released, and the feeling in the air is that this game pretty much already offered everything it could. Perhaps it is a lack of depth, or that many people didn't like the mechanics, or that nrs promised certain degree of freedom and then didn't deliver, or that the game felt rushed, or the lack of news from nrs together with the low number of patches. Whatever the reason, and even without judging if the game is good or not, it is a fact that this game has not had the same impact than the previous titles. Maybe it's time for warner/nrs to reconsider their strategies.

A group of NRS diehards just said they rarely play and some couldn’t remember the last time we played on Reo’s cast. This is extremely telling given the fact the game is 5 months old.

 

[Marlow]

I never said they hated it or that they shouldn't take breaks it's the irony of the argument that mk11 is deep. The last 2 tourney winners have the luxury of not seeking tech. I dont know if I can find another game like that. People make mk11 out like its tekken or Dota levels of meta or something.

I feel like the game is middle of the road in terms of depth. It's not Tekken style of depth, or Guilty Gear/Anime style of depth, but I don't find it completely dry or lacking.

 

[ExpectFlames]

I feel like the game is middle of the road in terms of depth. It's not Tekken style of depth, or Guilty Gear/Anime style of depth, but I don't find it completely dry or lacking.

I think it created it's own lvl. At face value its very hard for nubs to get into until 30% health.knockdowns go from monopoly to middle earth its radical balance or sheer randomness NRS accomplished something truly great here.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I would agree with you IF I didn't just see sonic and ninja do an hour long set in tekken. 6months the games been out and for all of its touted depth and unseen tech to learn the best players in the world would rather play a different game entirely. M2daves pod they talk about how they havent picked it up in months. This idea that the pro scene (which for some reason people brag for who arnt there) is somehow expanding is selection bias pure and simple.

Sonic’s been playing/trying other games for as long as he’s been playing MK. DOA, Skullgirls, Uniel, Street Fighter, and DBFZ just to name a few. And most of those guys you’re mentioning didn’t compete much (or at all, for some of them) in any of the last 3 games. Their most active period was 4-6 years ago.

 

[JTC]

I never said they hated it or that they shouldn't take breaks it's the irony of the argument that mk11 is deep. The last 2 tourney winners have the luxury of not seeking tech. I dont know if I can find another game like that. People make mk11 out like its tekken or Dota levels of meta or something.

This game is all about making decisions bro. No other games compare.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

You know, y’all could always just, like... stop playing. I know that sounds like an insane proposition. But for me, you know, personally and all, if I stop enjoying a game, I stop playing said game. I don’t go on rants or anything about all the things that I want to see changed so that I will start showing interest again. I just quit and move on. At the end of the day no one really cares about my complaints. I mean, seriously.

I certainly wouldn’t call other people who enjoy the game homers or shills because they happen to disagree with me. Maybe back when I was an immature teenager, idk. You know, Live and let live and all.

Then you didn’t even read the op. No ranting. Can’t we not even fricken discuss a game series that we have been playing for years? Can someone not point out things they have opinions on with people like you telling them not to? Look through this thread and see the countless replies in agreement with my sentiments. Wtf juggs.

 

[Juggs]

Then you didn’t even read the op. No ranting. Can’t we not even fricken discuss a game series that we have been playing for years? Can someone not point out things they have opinions on with people like you telling them not to? Look through this thread and see the countless replies in agreement with my sentiments. Wtf juggs.

I was speaking generally, otherwise I would have tagged you. You know damn well I have no problem telling you how I feel about what you say.

You can express your grievances as often as you would like. I’m just saying personally I’ve found that dwelling on things I can’t change only negatively effects my mental health. Especially when there’s a clear option to just stop doing whatever it is I’m complaining about.

But my main point is calling people homers and/or shills because they enjoy the thing you’re complaining about. Or rather, because they don’t agree with you. Now, I understand Crimson is probably 100% a shill for NRS, but still. It’s always better to attack the argument as oppose to the person.

 

[OnlineSkunk]

In all honesty MK11 has a lot of depth in my opinion and I'd say even more so than MKX, it's all about those flawless block / anti wake up setups. On the other hand I believe it's lacking rewarding players with good execution and combo creativity, that doesn't necessarily translate onto a game having a lot depth but I do believe it's something every fighting game should have and before you say anything SF3 had difficult to link combos and parries, I also believe we have to be realistic and fair with the NRS development team.

NRS tried something new, they're not afraid to innovate and they're always listening to the community. They wanted a fair game which it's what we asked for and they didn't want to take any chances, MK11 with the krushing blow mechanic and the old combo gravity mechanic would've created a huge amount of imbalance but NRS wanted to innovate. They're not afraid to do so and in this case it wasn't possible to have it both ways, I feel though NRS it's getting closer to giving us the cake and allowing us to eat it too.

Customization could help us have some of that cake though I don't believe it's the answer in the long run, for MK12 I hope they bring back the old combo gravity system and maybe more creative ways to combo. They should get rid of krushing blows and maybe rewards players with high execution level cap, I believe the flawless block mechanic should be here to stay though. I do prefer old meter system as long as it's balanced, I don't mind the regen meter system but I do believe it's a cop out to balancing the old meter system and it takes away some depth from the game involving meter management.

 

[ExpectFlames]

Sonic’s been playing/trying other games for as long as he’s been playing MK. DOA, Skullgirls, Uniel, Street Fighter, and DBFZ just to name a few. And most of those guys you’re mentioning didn’t compete much (or at all, for some of them) in any of the last 3 games. Their most active period was 4-6 years ago.

The point went right over your head my friend, I'll explain again for a game so deep with unfathomable depth how on earth do the best players in the world have time to play anything else. Are sonic and ninja FGC Gods sure. Does this happen in any other fighter short answer no. As far as the pod if you want to call them washed that's on you, the growth your shout about every single comment is nonexistent it's not tangible the same 8 guys at the same 7-10 tourneys. Now we can have a discussion about median growth but if your going off of stats from evo to dreamhack was a dramatic falloff in terms of attendance. You see how dumb that argument is though? Of course it will be!!

We have to stop the rhetoric and have a productive dialogue with facts. We all can agree that we love the franchise we all can agree it has some issues we all can agree that this is a forum we should at bare minimum discuss how to fix the issues plaguing without lambasting each other. It's time to grow cut the foolish and work together for once.

FUCCCKK

 

[ExpectFlames]

This game is all about making decisions bro. No other games compare.

You ain't lying bro lol

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

The point went right over your head my friend, I'll explain again for a game so deep with unfathomable depth how on earth do the best players in the world have time to play anything else. Are sonic and ninja FGC Gods sure. Does this happen in any other fighter short answer no. As far as the pod if you want to call them washed that's on you, the growth your shout about every single comment is nonexistent it's not tangible the same 8 guys at the same 7-10 tourneys. Now we can have a discussion about median growth but if your going off of stats from evo to dreamhack was a dramatic falloff in terms of attendance. You see how dumb that argument is though? Of course it will be!!

We have to stop the rhetoric and have a productive dialogue with facts. We all can agree that we love the franchise we all can agree it has some issues we all can agree that this is a forum we should at bare minimum discuss how to fix the issues plaguing without lambasting each other. It's time to grow cut the foolish and work together for once.

FUCCCKK

I agree. How he continues to ignore most of the points in the op while just saying the tournament scene is fine is an example of h productive discussion.

 

[DoctorSexual]

Marvel 2 was peak FGC and will never be matched.

Fight me.

 

[Liquid Swordsman]

I enjoy the playing game. My only problem with it though is the quality of content. I just...can't. Why does the variety in this game feel it's being held hostage? Even after going through most of the Krypt, I feel like there's something still missing unless you cough some up cash from your wallet/credit card along with waiting almost year just to experience some new characters.