(Discussion) The Unprecedented Stated of MK11

[lionheart21]

Because I dont post all the time means I

Who cares man it's a site about a game I joined to discuss tech in mk9. Theres no tech in this game to talk about which is why all that's left are people crying about other people

"A site about a game that I joined to discuss tech in MK9." Join date: June 29, 2019.

Huh...

And if you're here to discuss tech, and there's no tech to discuss, why are you here?

 

[xInfra Deadx]

I remember p2w challenging someone, dont remember xho it was, for a 1000$ mm (hoping the other guy would decline obviously), then the day they had to play he lamed out with an excuse about being a doctor and had more important things to do then play. Yeah dont trust that fraud

That was Rico Suave.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

He is known as Daigo "the beast" umehara!

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

That was Rico Suave.

I remember p2w challenging someone, dont remember xho it was, for a 1000$ mm (hoping the other guy would decline obviously), then the day they had to play he lamed out with an excuse about being a doctor and had more important things to do then play. Yeah dont trust that fraud

Actually I was at an event and asked if he wanted to do it and declined. I had the cash in hand and showed @DevilMaySpy and he can vouch for this.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I have many words, but I just want to say that I think this is the most conversation this topic has gotten on this forum all year and it is great.

Pls keep going.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

I have many words, but I just want to say that I think this is the most conversation this topic has gotten on this forum all year and it is great.

Pls keep going.

I agree I hope it gets back on topic and that we continue to advocate for full customization.

 

[B. Shazzy]

tym threads dont have the power to change anything anymore. paulo forsook us and the other devs

that said, anybody with a brain could see how dry mk11 was the first month. was wondering when the community would rub the stars out of their eyes, but as long as there is money to be made people will deal... plus nrs players notoriously only play nrs games. honestly, unless you compete, this game is the worst fg to dedicate yourself to i’ve ever seen. i sympathize for the guys like Reo out there who seem to want the game to match the community’s expectations and not the other way around.

 

[LionHeart V1]

I haven’t leaned anything new with subzero since day 1. The character has one string and one combo wtf is there to learn!?

 

[JeffX]

I agree I hope it gets back on topic and that we continue to advocate for full customization.

As much as I don't want to learn all of the different matchups when full customization gets opened up, I feel that may be the only way for them to save this game from the black hole we're in now. Here are my problems with the game since we seem to agree on a bit. There's plenty but here's what I think would breathe some life into it:

-Little to no resource management. This is exacerbated by armored fatal blows untethered to any resources. Win by losing mechanic.

-Wake up system. I think REO called it a total dice roll and it is. It's almost pointless to enforce offense if you're opponent has meter no matter how plus you are on knockdown.

-Resource dependent characters like Raiden and mean streak Kabal have essentially been shafted because they didn't want the offense of MKX among other things.
-(Raiden's superman cancel is -15 and I have to spend a bar on this.... why would I ever play this character when other characters so the same thing but better. This is meant to be a technical character but you can blow up everyone of these cancels if you make the read).

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I haven’t leaned anything new with subzero since day 1. The character has one string and one combo wtf is there to learn!?

I don't think I've played him since then, either. And I always play Sub-Zero. IJ2, Cryomancer and Bi-Han Sub in MK9. He doesn't have a draw. The Ice Aura, all of the Clones, Ice Shatter, Cryo Hammer, command grab, poof. Gone. You only get Slide in one variation. You only get Super Freeze in one variation, it takes up two slots, and you have to give up your Slide AND your best KB to have it. And your base build revolves around a 50/50. Nah. I'll stick with Bi-Han and my spooky shenanigans.

I'm gonna push back on the Inj2 being bland narrative just a little bit. At the end of the game's life we saw Joker and Black Canary winning tournaments, who have some of the most balls to the wall looping offense type kits. We saw Blue Beetle start to do well and that character had some crazy stuff going on. Robin consistently placed well and that character had some honest to god bullshit going on. Was the game as crazy as Injustice 1? Obviously not but it wasn't this dull slog it is described as. (It's also my favorite nrs game so I'm a little biased lol).

I think honestly some of us are just getting tired of the kind of bullshit we keep getting in these games. For me personally it feels like I've been around the block a hundred times with characters like Liu Kang and Sonya in mk11 because I spent years dealing with similar kinds of bullshit, more potent versions, in previous games. So when stuff is discovered in the newer games it doesn't feel all that new because we've seen it already over the years. That's just how it feels to me though and I know you've been around since mk9 at least as well so I'm curious what you think.

My boredom was personal. Life was dark as FUCK at that time and I was profoundly frustrated with all the change. I still played the whole first year, though. Fate, Brainiac, Red Hood, MANTA who was too complex for me to be able to play to the max...the meta might have been less insane than before, but some of the character design in that game was amaaaaaaazing. iI will be happy when it eventually gets a second wind like MKX did and people start picking it back up.

This argument needs to not go away. Drama, tension, lions, tigers, bears, whatever; there's a lot of shit out of place that warrants further discussion and addressing and needs to not be forgotten because of problems with the fella who brought it to the floor. The subject at hand should stay the focus.
Think about it like this: if a monster knocks at your door, to warn you that your house is on fire, would you sit still to spite the monster, even when you smell the smoke? Or do you get the fuck out so you can deal with the fire?

Idk. I'm Box. Don't listen, it's a trap.

I need to listen to that podcast tomorrow.

 

[Edmund]

i may get crucified for saying this but if this game didn’t try and cater to everyone but rather NRS made the game they wanted to it would have been amazing

Instead, we have gameplay that was meant to be competitive, with so many intervening shitty casual elements like Fatal Blow and FB recharge, amazing potential variations but competitive ones instead, like all of that strict separation they have where I think a game where they either fully dedicated to either casual or pros would be better

 

[thlityoursloat]

I'm gonna push back on the Inj2 being bland narrative just a little bit. At the end of the game's life we saw Joker and Black Canary winning tournaments, who have some of the most balls to the wall looping offense type kits. We saw Blue Beetle start to do well and that character had some crazy stuff going on. Robin consistently placed well and that character had some honest to god bullshit going on. Was the game as crazy as Injustice 1? Obviously not but it wasn't this dull slog it is described as. (It's also my favorite nrs game so I'm a little biased lol).

I think honestly some of us are just getting tired of the kind of bullshit we keep getting in these games. For me personally it feels like I've been around the block a hundred times with characters like Liu Kang and Sonya in mk11 because I spent years dealing with similar kinds of bullshit, more potent versions, in previous games. So when stuff is discovered in the newer games it doesn't feel all that new because we've seen it already over the years. That's just how it feels to me though and I know you've been around since mk9 at least as well so I'm curious what you think.

Injustice 2 was easily my most favorite NRS game as well. Imo it was far closer to the ideal of wacky all out fun variety and balance, and it did a much much much better job of facilitating oddjob characters like Bane, Joker, Cheetah, etc.
Oh yeah and ranked wasn't an absolute salt inducing shitshow, anyone else remember the glory days of FT3? Remember having time to adapt and download your opponent and shit?

 

[kcd117]

Honestly, I love the game and have a lot of fun with it, but no one can deny that it is a really simple game. That is not a bad thing at all tho. The NRS games have always been more simple than the SF of Tekken games and that is why they have a way bigger casual customer base.

The OSs being found are not really “tech”... they are just a sort of exploit of the game’s mechanics that can be abused but also happen to have some serious impact on competitive gameplay.

With thay said, I don’t think the game is maxed out, but I also don’t think the meta will evolve a lot past broken jump ins, throw loops and 9 frame mids if NRS keeps playing it safe.

They actually had a very good way of getting casuals into the competitive scene while also addind hella variety and room for creativity with Kustom, but then decided one of the main features advertised was not meant to be used in competitive play.

But despite not thinking that simple means bad, I have some serious problems with the way this game plays and lately I’m coming to the conclusion that every character plays absolutely the same way: strike/throw mixup. If they can’t do it then they are not good characters. It is that simple, and that bad. All you need to do that is a hit-confirmable safe mid and a throw. If you have those, you are viable. If you have those + an auto-shimmy, you are good. If you have that + throw loops you are top tier. If you have all of that + high dmg output you are a problem. If on top of it you have throw KBs then you are Liu Kang. There are variables to it but for the most part, every single game seems to be decided at poke range by the same kind of mixups.

The solution is actually pretty simple:

Nerf jump ins/buff anti-airs.
Remove dash cancels (while also adressing projectile startup and recovery frames and some combo links).


Do that and the meta will become 1000 times less potato.

 

[Vslayer]

tym threads dont have the power to change anything anymore. paulo forsook us and the other devs

that said, anybody with a brain could see how dry mk11 was the first month. was wondering when the community would rub the stars out of their eyes, but as long as there is money to be made people will deal... plus nrs players notoriously only play nrs games. honestly, unless you compete, this game is the worst fg to dedicate yourself to i’ve ever seen. i sympathize for the guys like Reo out there who seem to want the game to match the community’s expectations and not the other way around.

Man if you're gonna sit here and say it's the worst FG to play you're gonna have to give concrete examples, cause it just sounds like your biased opinion. I think it's the best one NRS ever made, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its issues. Like all of them had.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

The game was advertised for months and months about "full customization". Although its entire competitive community was asking how things would work in tournament play NRS blatantly ignored its most dedicated fan base. We were all jacked up thinking there was going to be a tremendous amount of freedom in the engine to hearing we would have less variations than MKX. THe shady rollout was a huge PR fail. THere are so many awesome moves that are never displayed. Think of all the time/money/animation that is never on display for the biggest stages of the game?

THIS x 1000! Still pissed about that shady move.

 

[Juggs]

It's not the easiest thing for me to explain but it's part of the systems override build. It's engrained into the deepest part of the input engine and was built into the new gen engine. Glitch jabs were still called glitch jabs but were still part of the meta and were essential to competetive play no? Similar to wave dashing or block cancelling in Ssbm.

I'm not trying to make an argument in its defense or anything. But this isnt any different than OS grabs in sf4 or lingering armor cancels in previous mk games. All exploits bur still deemed tech.

Yes of course. A glitch doesn’t always mean “bad”. Some of the best features of competitive games were unintended mechanics/glitches.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

THIS x 1000! Still pissed about that shady move.

Have comfort in the knowledge that many people feel this way. I was initially against the idea of full customization until 16 bit said, during almost every single combat kast,“this character is super easy to use”.

I had red flags about the games depth/longevity prior to launch bc of this.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Instead of creating another thread, I will post the link here. REO, Slips, Tom, and I discuss this thread and some of the reactions in the most recent episode of our podcast. If you have some time to spare, listen in.

Regarding Raptors OS, I feel its something healthy for the game. Many of the OS's have counter play to them and the majority can't be used every time because its to predictable. There are a few that will be incredibly strong but I feel that just adds depth, execution and mind games to MK11. UltraDavid made me a believer. And like Slips said OS's saved SF.

Top Players from MK9 vs MK11. There is a huge difference between those games. MK9 had a shit practice mode, no frame data, info wasn't available on the Internet as it is now, tech was hard to find back then so I feel that contributed to how many players where at the highest level and how quickly tech was discovered and shared. We discover tech much more quickly in 11 because we have TYM, Twitter, Discord, Tournaments, YouTube etc. But I still feel there is plenty of tech to be found and I'm seeing new tech on Twitter each day.
The top players in MK9 where just as skilled as MK11 but just in different ways and different metas and challenges.

Throw KB's:
I also feel characters having two throw KB's is kind of dumb and I honestly don't think its good that you get KB from your opponent teching the wrong way.

Liu Kang Strength:
I also don't feel he is broke. I do feel he is very strong. there is clearly counter play displayed at tournaments.

 

[Evil Canadian]

op of this thread is still a whiny nub fyi

 

[Evil Canadian]

this thread is now dedicated to the fact I took my dog out in the morning and he barked at a kid and the kid was like "heh that dog barked at me but im not scared" cause he was a pretty cool kid.

 

[Marlow]

this thread is now dedicated to the fact I took my dog out in the morning and he barked at a kid and the kid was like "heh that dog barked at me but im not scared" cause he was a pretty cool kid.

What is the unprecedented stated of your dog? Does your dog lack depth?

 

[Evil Canadian]

What is the unprecedented stated of your dog? Does your dog lack depth?

he does now cause I got him shaved at the groomers the other day




before that he had a lot of depth cause he was a very shaggy pup

 

[Rodney Quillz]

op of this thread is still a whiny nub fyi

That’s a pretty bold statement coming from a guy who hangs out at theme parks dressed as grape ape and giving nrs detractors wet willies.

@PLAYING TO WIN take the whiny nub comment how ever you want, get a lawyer for the wet willy though.

 

[sars]

I’m just confused how people found out about the customization being the way it is 2 weeks before the game released. Ed boon did an interview at the reveal event. He said that tournament veriations would be standard and not be able to be customized.

The only thing I can think of is this interview was not seen by a lot of players. I was always confused on why people were so in shock when they found out about the veriations system.

For all the other points, I really enjoy the game and I find out new stuff and tech about the game all the time. I also don’t get to play as much as I would like, and don’t pick up on things as fast as everyone else so that could be the reason. I did go to my first major EVO and had a blast this year. If it was not for this game I would have never went at least this year.

Personally I enjoy the game but I do see both arguments. I can see how some people think the game is maxed out tech wise because the game only allows for so much creativity, but I also see new tech being found, maybe not daily but it is out there.

Personally this is my favorite MK game, but i do see both sides of the argument.

 

[Badboy Takuma]

time for some real talk.
comparing games with each other (sf better then mk), older games with new ones (mk9 better then mk11) has always been a dumbass thing to do. all these kind of (shit) talk or discussions should not be taken seriously, as most of us know.
it should be ignored or trolled.
thats about it.

there is a far much dumber thing to do then the just described above though. which is comparing top players from different eras with each other, as done in this thread.
for me its pointless mainly because of the different scenarios. also the huge disrespect caused by this comparison against top players from certain era.
its a sad thing to do honestly and those individuals on this thread should shame themselfs.