Who are the easiest characters to use in MK11?

[The_Tile]

Geras. Press a button, guaranteed success. He literally doesn't have any whiff issues

Just saying but a few members of the cast can still press buttons out of F212 and the F212 into F1 link only works on certain characters.

But yeah, Geras is dumb. Some of his optimal stuff is a bit trickier or requires setting up but you don't even need to use it, hes silly without it

 

[Sazbak]

- Sub Zero Dead of Winter:
Has very few buttons to utilize and in this variation has good Zoning, Footsie, pokes, damage, KB's, FB and several other tools to deal with many things. He has very strong mix in this variation where he can do 50/50's all day long snowballing to brutality.

Good zoning? You have one projectile that's more of a counterzoning tool than zoning.
Also what about the damage? He has totally average damage or below average if you want to add addtiional benefits to your combo e.g. unbreakability or oki.
What's special about his FB?

"and several other tools to deal with many things."
like what? pretty sure you don't mean decent mids

Also why do you call him a snowball character? Jax is obviously one but I don't see any snowballing capability in DoW. Do you mean that he can mix you on wake up? Then maybe. Hope you don't mean the resets where you have to give up 1/3 of your combo damage to risk getting blocked and maybe punished.

He is a decent character but the lack of good mids don't make him so easy to play against decent players. Definitely wouldn't think he is easier than e.g. Baraka.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Good zoning? You have one projectile that's more of a counterzoning tool than zoning.
Also what about the damage? He has totally average damage or below average if you want to add addtiional benefits to your combo e.g. unbreakability or oki.
What's special about his FB?

"and several other tools to deal with many things."
like what? pretty sure you don't mean decent mids

Also why do you call him a snowball character? Jax is obviously one but I don't see any snowballing capability in DoW. Do you mean that he can mix you on wake up? Then maybe. Hope you don't mean the resets where you have to give up 1/3 of your combo damage to risk getting blocked and maybe punished.

He is a decent character but the lack of good mids don't make him so easy to play against decent players. Definitely wouldn't think he is easier than e.g. Baraka.

SZ players complaining about mids lol. Yeah you don't have a mid, you have a low instead.

 

[Sazbak]

SZ players complaining about mids lol. Yeah you don't have a mid, you have a low instead.

Yeah a low with 13f startup and a meh range(if you consider the startup) that cannot be comboed into b32 df1 against a jumping opponent since the 2nd hit will miss.

 

[lordlosh]

His B1,4 has also low-profiling issue, as well as if the opponent jump you will whiff with the string and eat big punish.
Sub Zero as it now is below average.
There is also big window gap to punish his unsafe string and FB for example, unlike other characters.
He had good KB and FB? WTF? He has good scaling on his FB, but thas all of it. His FB suc, its slow, it has low-profiling issue and its armor s and you can counter it with any move if he tried to do it after wake up for example.
KB in Dead of Winter? He had just 1 good KB, that safest way to do it is in the corner, but its not easy to put skilled opponent into the corner, like Liu Kang for example can do that.
Also his input is very strict and at Pro level Sub Zero is probably 1 of the characters that drop most combos.
As far as zoning goes, he have just his Ice Ball. At high level you cant expect to land this tool, unless you do it for combos.
If people are good at zoning they will outzone you with ease. Thats why a lot of Pro player started to use his other variation, esp against zoners.
The only that is good with this character is his Overhead and that some people have problem with it. But its a tool that work online and against low to mid skilled player. At High-Pro level you will probably eat more punish than landing the OH.
His mixup potential is close to zero.
If you pressure Sub Zero its over for him. He has zero tools to deal with pressure, and his close range attack s*.

 

[GLoRToR]

Just saying but a few members of the cast can still press buttons out of F212 and the F212 into F1 link only works on certain characters.

But yeah, Geras is dumb. Some of his optimal stuff is a bit trickier or requires setting up but you don't even need to use it, hes silly without it

nrs game balance for the lulz.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Good zoning? You have one projectile that's more of a counterzoning tool than zoning.
Also what about the damage? He has totally average damage or below average if you want to add addtiional benefits to your combo e.g. unbreakability or oki.
What's special about his FB?

"and several other tools to deal with many things."
like what? pretty sure you don't mean decent mids

Also why do you call him a snowball character? Jax is obviously one but I don't see any snowballing capability in DoW. Do you mean that he can mix you on wake up? Then maybe. Hope you don't mean the resets where you have to give up 1/3 of your combo damage to risk getting blocked and maybe punished.

He is a decent character but the lack of good mids don't make him so easy to play against decent players. Definitely wouldn't think he is easier than e.g. Baraka.

It wasn't meant to anger Sub mains. I use him for certain matchups and he gets the win very easily, if they guess wrong you snowball.
He has tools for nearly everything despite not having a 9f mid:
6f poke
Great D4
13f low
Mid range tools: s3/B3/F4/F2/B14/B2
Close up tools: D1/B3/D4/12/Throw/Jailing
Full screen tools: IceBall/Soulder

Personally I like Thin Ice more than DOW because I Like using his staggers and frame traps more than F2/B3/Throw

He pretty much counters most zoning if you use Deep Freeze right, has tools to deal with characters close up(pokes/staggers/getoffme buttons 124/212 ect and has plenty of tools for footsie range.

Yes his movelist is more basic and limited but he is effective in this meta having true 50/50's and good staggers with oki on throw.

I'm not saying none can be skilled with him just that he us very simple to pick up.

 

[Sazbak]

It wasn't meant to anger Sub mains. I use him for certain matchups and he gets the win very easily, if they guess wrong you snowball.
He has tools for nearly everything despite not having a 9f mid:
6f poke
Great D4
13f low
Mid range tools: s3/B3/F4/F2/B14/B2
Close up tools: D1/B3/D4/12/Throw/Jailing
Full screen tools: IceBall/Soulder

Personally I like Thin Ice more than DOW because I Like using his staggers and frame traps more than F2/B3/Throw

He pretty much counters most zoning if you use Deep Freeze right, has tools to deal with characters close up(pokes/staggers/getoffme buttons 124/212 ect and has plenty of tools for footsie range.

Yes his movelist is more basic and limited but he is effective in this meta having true 50/50's and good staggers with oki on throw.

I'm not saying none can be skilled with him just that he us very simple to pick up.

I'm not angry but I disagree with some of your points still.

You still didn't explain to me how you snowball with Sub. Snowball has a very specific meaning. It means you get stronger over time based on fulfilling certain conditions e.g. Jax has to have heat on his arms.

6f poke is is good in terms of speed but the hitbox on it is really bad. Lots of low kicks low profile it even when Sub is slightly plus.

13f low is not a good thing with that range and the inability to go into a b32 df1 combo on a jumping opponent because the 2nd hit whiffs.

Yes he has mid range tools and the range on b1 is gigantic but it's a high. S3 is also a high. In general I think it's a good idea to use low kicks against Sub.

B2 has again a totally mediocre range for 14 frame startup and b21 has a bad hitbox that often doesn't hit an airborn opponent or gets low profiled.
B2 can be good for stagger and long range antiair.

Shoulder is not a full screen tool. It has actually even shorter range than Slide which is also not a full screen tool.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I'm not angry but I disagree with some of your points still.

You still didn't explain to me how you snowball with Sub. Snowball has a very specific meaning. It means you get stronger over time based on fulfilling certain conditions e.g. Jax has to have heat on his arms.

6f poke is is good in terms of speed but the hitbox on it is really bad. Lots of low kicks low profile it even when Sub is slightly plus.

13f low is not a good thing with that range and the inability to go into a b32 df1 combo on a jumping opponent because the 2nd hit whiffs.

Yes he has mid range tools and the range on b1 is gigantic but it's a high. S3 is also a high. In general I think it's a good idea to use low kicks against Sub.

B2 has again a totally mediocre range for 14 frame startup and b21 has a bad hitbox that often doesn't hit an airborn opponent or gets low profiled.
B2 can be good for stagger and long range antiair.

Shoulder is not a full screen tool. It has actually even shorter range than Slide which is also not a full screen tool.

I explained in my previous post, agree to disagree

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Geras should be much higher, i suspect many didn't realize they could pick multiple options.

 

[NothingPersonal]

Oh wait. It's at high level? You should've said that in the title. On casual level Luai Kieng will give you the most wins by far. On the highest level I think Geras is the character to go. He has all the tools you need with the easiest execution of the top tiers.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Oh wait. It's at high level? You should've said that in the title. On casual level Luai Kieng will give you the most wins by far. On the highest level I think Geras is the character to go. He has all the tools you need with the easiest execution of the top tiers.

I think it says effectively at high level in the poll title.
There are several characters that are very easy to play the meta in my opinion.
Sub Zero, Liu Kang, Geras, Shang, Jade, Sonya and a few others stand out as very simple to mix in this Strike/Throw Meta.

The hardest characters I've used are:

Mean Streak - Kabal:

• He has Pretty tight optimals that get him 29% which many others get for free without the 3f links. Example: F22xxND, Dash Cancel S4xxAmped Buzzsaw xxS1, Dash Cancel xx 23xxHook Slam. 29% otherwise he gets 27% or less.
• His NDC's are just frame links to make them safe/unpunished and some are 2-3f links.
• He is the only character that has to Tripple layer Hit confirm his starters, cancels and punishers. And one of the few who has to dual layer hit confirm.

D'Vorah Buzzed:

• She is pretty difficult to get the loops going and requires her to constantly adapt and think on the fly as well as do different things on reaction to keep her setups going.
• the player has to have a very good understanding of the matchup and knowledge if her range, optimal spacing and combo gravity to melt them with setplay.

I've heard a few others can be difficult like Frost optimals and Kitana Highborn having buggy stuff that you need to work around and a few tight links.
I've always been a fan of harder characters because it gives me a lot to lab and think about when playing.
MK9 I used Kabal and Cyrax
MKX I used D'Vorah Swarm Queen, Cyrax, Predator HQT.
And in 11 at first I felt execution was lacking but I've found a few that can still be difficult to consistently do Cancels safely and near frame perfect.

But yeah many characters in this game are very simple and I think its because they are so limited. Some have very few normals to work with and others lack tools and specials are limited. Could be broke but I'd like characters to have at least the option to choose what specials they want competitively or for there to be no variations like MK9.

 

[lordlosh]

It wasn't meant to anger Sub mains. I use him for certain matchups and he gets the win very easily, if they guess wrong you snowball.
He has tools for nearly everything despite not having a 9f mid:
6f poke
Great D4
13f low
Mid range tools: s3/B3/F4/F2/B14/B2
Close up tools: D1/B3/D4/12/Throw/Jailing
Full screen tools: IceBall/Soulder

Personally I like Thin Ice more than DOW because I Like using his staggers and frame traps more than F2/B3/Throw

He pretty much counters most zoning if you use Deep Freeze right, has tools to deal with characters close up(pokes/staggers/getoffme buttons 124/212 ect and has plenty of tools for footsie range.

Yes his movelist is more basic and limited but he is effective in this meta having true 50/50's and good staggers with oki on throw.

I'm not saying none can be skilled with him just that he us very simple to pick up.

With all due respect but you are talking with your **** right there. Frame data is one thing, reality is totally another thing.
This thread shows why 99,99% of the thing you mention with all due respect is not true, and show why Sub Zero has such sh**** record at high and top level. Not a single top 8 finish in any tournament so far.

Subzero's Low-Profiling Issues

So I've mentioned this a few times already but I want to properly document it and hope NRS see this and fix it D1, wakeup U3, and DF2 are all low-profilable EDIT: Fatal Blow can also be low profiled.... 2nd edit: B21 too....

testyourmight.com

His poke is probably 1 of the worst ever. His range is pure s****, and unless the opponent is right at you, you are going to whiff and eat punish.
Great D4 really? Firstable it has average range, and its slow, which f**** Sub even more, because his D3 is complete garbage.
Sub Zero also have one of the worst range for throw. You need to be exactly at opponent feet in order to throw him, otherwise you going to whiff and eat it big. Some may say the range for throws is not important, but its complete the opposite.
Go try the range of his throws in the lab and compare it to other characters and you will understand why people at top level avoiding Sub Zero.

His B3,2 is 13frame, but the range is s****, which means you are going to get beat to the punch by a lot of strings. It wont even compare it to Kang string.
His 1,2 has sh* range and you are going to miss the first shot and eat punish because of it.
B1,4 as i said has good range, but has low-profiling issue, as well as you are going to miss if the opponent jump, and it will punish you most of the time.

S3 - no High level or Pro level use this
F4 - kinda the same. This is the move with the biggest window gap to attack with FB attack. If you dont know how see Tom Brady video, who explain the weakness of Sub Zero.

Full screen tool ? Not a single one. IceBall is a projectile, which is easy to defend against, and shoulder have s**** range and slow startup.
I can agree on that if we talk about Slide, that is a very good move, because its pretty fast and its a low, but its in his other variation.

Just fast check of Sub Zero String and Special move and compare them to Liu Kang and right there you understand the difference between the characters.

Sub Zero has not a single move, that has multiple options after the initial string, aka Kang F4.

Sub Zero OH is 100% punishable move. If you know how to play the matchup, you know when its going to use the OH and when he will go for the low. If he goes for the throw he has to be right next to you, because of the sh**** range.
OH is covered by wakeup attacks, if he try to do it in a combo you can fuzzy block it with 100% effectiveness, but no one at high/pro level use it as that.
Most of them use it as a pressure, after they knock you on the ground, or when you are in a neutral. But its obvious that from range he will go for the OH, and when close going for the low, otherwise you are going to beat that 19f with a lot of moves.

I would like Sub Zero OH to become 25frame so people start complaining, but give Sub Zero actual tools to open the opponent and more string and special move, so you can mixup your attack, not just be 1 hit wonder.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

With all due respect but you are talking with your **** right there. Frame data is one thing, reality is totally another thing.
This thread shows why 99,99% of the thing you mention with all due respect is not true, and show why Sub Zero has such sh**** record at high and top level. Not a single top 8 finish in any tournament so far.

Subzero's Low-Profiling Issues

So I've mentioned this a few times already but I want to properly document it and hope NRS see this and fix it D1, wakeup U3, and DF2 are all low-profilable EDIT: Fatal Blow can also be low profiled.... 2nd edit: B21 too....

testyourmight.com

His poke is probably 1 of the worst ever. His range is pure s****, and unless the opponent is right at you, you are going to whiff and eat punish.
Great D4 really? Firstable it has average range, and its slow, which f**** Sub even more, because his D3 is complete garbage.
Sub Zero also have one of the worst range for throw. You need to be exactly at opponent feet in order to throw him, otherwise you going to whiff and eat it big. Some may say the range for throws is not important, but its complete the opposite.
Go try the range of his throws in the lab and compare it to other characters and you will understand why people at top level avoiding Sub Zero.

His B3,2 is 13frame, but the range is s****, which means you are going to get beat to the punch by a lot of strings. It wont even compare it to Kang string.
His 1,2 has sh* range and you are going to miss the first shot and eat punish because of it.
B1,4 as i said has good range, but has low-profiling issue, as well as you are going to miss if the opponent jump, and it will punish you most of the time.

S3 - no High level or Pro level use this
F4 - kinda the same. This is the move with the biggest window gap to attack with FB attack. If you dont know how see Tom Brady video, who explain the weakness of Sub Zero.

Full screen tool ? Not a single one. IceBall is a projectile, which is easy to defend against, and shoulder have s**** range and slow startup.
I can agree on that if we talk about Slide, that is a very good move, because its pretty fast and its a low, but its in his other variation.

Just fast check of Sub Zero String and Special move and compare them to Liu Kang and right there you understand the difference between the characters.

Sub Zero has not a single move, that has multiple options after the initial string, aka Kang F4.

Sub Zero OH is 100% punishable move. If you know how to play the matchup, you know when its going to use the OH and when he will go for the low. If he goes for the throw he has to be right next to you, because of the sh**** range.
OH is covered by wakeup attacks, if he try to do it in a combo you can fuzzy block it with 100% effectiveness, but no one at high/pro level use it as that.
Most of them use it as a pressure, after they knock you on the ground, or when you are in a neutral. But its obvious that from range he will go for the OH, and when close going for the low, otherwise you are going to beat that 19f with a lot of moves.

I would like Sub Zero OH to become 25frame so people start complaining, but give Sub Zero actual tools to open the opponent and more string and special move, so you can mixup your attack, not just be 1 hit wonder.

He has multiple top 8 and 16 placements but I guess we will agree to disagree. I just said he is simple and in my experience he has tools for multiple situations, I'm not saying you can't be skilled with him.
BTW hitbox/hurtbox issues are problems for most characters in many situations. I'd like for all of these hitbox issues to be fixed but until then we adapt and finds ways to make it work like I have done with Kabal which wiffs vs nearly every mid vs every female on crouch block. But I don't think that makes him bad I still think he is S-/A+ Tier character despite his many hitbox/hurtbox issues.

Also some of the Hitbox issues I've come acrossed using Thin Ice sub and DOW where actually in his favor like his F24 where it hits the opponent from behind him and still KB or his FB glitch that hits them from behind or where he can vacuum in opponents with his throw from Max D4 range.
When I use Sub I use him at footsie range which I feel he is strong at having true 50/50's with decent range.
His B1 does have wiffing issues vs females and it should be fixed but we should notice many characters have these issues.
He is an honest character though imo.

But it seems me and you don't agree about this and that's fine. I don't want to argue about it. I've seen very good Sub Zeros place high in tournaments with both variations including Sikander, Buffalo and even Tom Brady after the patch all top 8's.
Sonic actually said Sub Zero's F2 isn't reactable when Foxy was using him because he was playing Sub at footsie range where Sonic had to much to worry about and scout.

Top 8's with Sub:

Foxy Sub vs Dizzy Liu Kang

Nivek (kabal) vs Sea (Sub Zero)

Those are just some of the top 8's if we count from day 1 there are 20+

 

[SwiftEagle]

With all due respect but you are talking with your **** right there. Frame data is one thing, reality is totally another thing.
This thread shows why 99,99% of the thing you mention with all due respect is not true, and show why Sub Zero has such sh**** record at high and top level. Not a single top 8 finish in any tournament so far.

Subzero's Low-Profiling Issues

So I've mentioned this a few times already but I want to properly document it and hope NRS see this and fix it D1, wakeup U3, and DF2 are all low-profilable EDIT: Fatal Blow can also be low profiled.... 2nd edit: B21 too....

testyourmight.com

His poke is probably 1 of the worst ever. His range is pure s****, and unless the opponent is right at you, you are going to whiff and eat punish.
Great D4 really? Firstable it has average range, and its slow, which f**** Sub even more, because his D3 is complete garbage.
Sub Zero also have one of the worst range for throw. You need to be exactly at opponent feet in order to throw him, otherwise you going to whiff and eat it big. Some may say the range for throws is not important, but its complete the opposite.
Go try the range of his throws in the lab and compare it to other characters and you will understand why people at top level avoiding Sub Zero.

His B3,2 is 13frame, but the range is s****, which means you are going to get beat to the punch by a lot of strings. It wont even compare it to Kang string.
His 1,2 has sh* range and you are going to miss the first shot and eat punish because of it.
B1,4 as i said has good range, but has low-profiling issue, as well as you are going to miss if the opponent jump, and it will punish you most of the time.

S3 - no High level or Pro level use this
F4 - kinda the same. This is the move with the biggest window gap to attack with FB attack. If you dont know how see Tom Brady video, who explain the weakness of Sub Zero.

Full screen tool ? Not a single one. IceBall is a projectile, which is easy to defend against, and shoulder have s**** range and slow startup.
I can agree on that if we talk about Slide, that is a very good move, because its pretty fast and its a low, but its in his other variation.

Just fast check of Sub Zero String and Special move and compare them to Liu Kang and right there you understand the difference between the characters.

Sub Zero has not a single move, that has multiple options after the initial string, aka Kang F4.

Sub Zero OH is 100% punishable move. If you know how to play the matchup, you know when its going to use the OH and when he will go for the low. If he goes for the throw he has to be right next to you, because of the sh**** range.
OH is covered by wakeup attacks, if he try to do it in a combo you can fuzzy block it with 100% effectiveness, but no one at high/pro level use it as that.
Most of them use it as a pressure, after they knock you on the ground, or when you are in a neutral. But its obvious that from range he will go for the OH, and when close going for the low, otherwise you are going to beat that 19f with a lot of moves.

I would like Sub Zero OH to become 25frame so people start complaining, but give Sub Zero actual tools to open the opponent and more string and special move, so you can mixup your attack, not just be 1 hit wonder.

it's 100% punishable, but 10% reactable with a 50% guess. MKX is that way.

 

[Groove Heaven]

Liu for obvious reasons

I think HD Jax is pretty easy and doesn't even really have combos to hit, you just do his 3 strings. You don't even have to adjust to things like hitting your opponent out of the air, the 1+3 part just grabs them and gives you the oki for free. Also has one of the best u3 wakeups in the game.

Baraka is very simple, straight footsies character with one of the best neutral strings in the game (f44), explosive damage, and a good projectile. Reminds me of SFV Ken.

Jade is the most straightforward character to zone with imo, she doesn't have any irregular projectiles and has a good air projectile.

 

[lordlosh]

LawAbidingCitizen, all the videos you show, there is not a single Big tournament or lets said major tournament.
VSFighting is international tournament, where 70% of the top guys was missing. I think only Hayatei and Foxy was there.
The other tournaments are some small bul..... where none of the top guys compete.
By your margin i can give you same videos with local tournament where Kano wins such tournaments and Kollector place not in top 8, but in top 4. Will that prove anything, when 99,99% of the top players are missing?
Yeah there is good Sub Zero players out there and they have won exactly nothing with him. Should we compare him to the rest of the cast, the result will be lower than average placing.

As far as hurtbox, there is not a single character with so much hurtboxes, not to mention in their so call "best moves".

SwiftEagle, yeah but its his only move, that allow him to opens you up. This just show how s**** he is made.
As i said i dont mind they make the OH 25 frame or totally remove it, but give him decent strings and specials, so you can have mixup options.
If you know his tool, he is totally usless.

And btw SonicFox had Sub Zero in his tier list pretty low. Tweedy had him pretty low as well. PNDK&M had him at 14 place.

Sub is a problem to player that not know the matchup and spam OH/Low.
This is not a problem at Mid, High, Top level. Still the OH is going to hit you and open you, but this is his purpose right, otherwise how would Sub Zero open you up ? I also hate how inconsistent Sub Zero anti air is.
That being said, im watching Sikander stream daily and he is doing insanely good job with Sub Zero. He plays him great and beautifully. But he mostly use his Thin Ice variation.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

LawAbidingCitizen, all the videos you show, there is not a single Big tournament or lets said major tournament.
VSFighting is international tournament, where 70% of the top guys was missing. I think only Hayatei and Foxy was there.
The other tournaments are some small bul..... where none of the top guys compete.
By your margin i can give you same videos with local tournament where Kano wins such tournaments and Kollector place not in top 8, but in top 4. Will that prove anything, when 99,99% of the top players are missing?

As far as hurtbox, there is not a single character with so much hurtboxes, not to mention in their so call "best moves".

SwiftEagle, yeah but its his only move, that allow him to opens you up. This just show how s**** he is made.
As i said i dont mind they make the OH 25 frame or totally remove it, but give him decent string, so you can have mixup options.
If you know his tool, he is totally usless.

BuSy doing other things man but Sub made top 8 in several majors I'm surprised you didn't hear of one. Remember the big popoff at CEO/CB forget which but Daddy/Buffalo used Sub vs scar prepatch when Sonya was broke and eliminated Scars Sonya from finals.
Foxy has used him in majors and btw several if those where UK majors which have very good players including VideoGamezYo, Foxy, PND Team, And Dizzy among several other players who are at Foxy's level but can't afford to travel because they don't have sponsors. So we don't see other countries top players as much.

 

[lordlosh]

Foxy use Sub Zero as a third or even forth choice. He aint playing Sub Zero fully, to said Sub Zero is placing in top 8 with a guy who main him. Foxy use him max 1 or twice. And in what major he use Sub Zero ?
Daddy win over Scar was in the bracket if im not wrong, the tournament was CEO, but Daddy get eliminated by SylverRye, but he lost in the loser bracket in top 24, not top 8.
Top 8 was
SonicFox
Dragon
Foxy
Ninja
Kombat
Tweedy
Kevo
SylverRye

And from the videos you give, the only tournament that was event was VSFighting, which is international tournament, where most top player are missing.
And that just show how bad Sub Zero is. He cant win a tournament, even if 99,99% of the top player are missing.
Best Sub Zero placing in a major is Daddy and his top 24 finish in the CEO. That is it.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

LawAbidingCitizen, all the videos you show, there is not a single Big tournament or lets said major tournament.
VSFighting is international tournament, where 70% of the top guys was missing. I think only Hayatei and Foxy was there.
The other tournaments are some small bul..... where none of the top guys compete.
By your margin i can give you same videos with local tournament where Kano wins such tournaments and Kollector place not in top 8, but in top 4. Will that prove anything, when 99,99% of the top players are missing?
Yeah there is good Sub Zero players out there and they have won exactly nothing with him. Should we compare him to the rest of the cast, the result will be lower than average placing.

As far as hurtbox, there is not a single character with so much hurtboxes, not to mention in their so call "best moves".

SwiftEagle, yeah but its his only move, that allow him to opens you up. This just show how s**** he is made.
As i said i dont mind they make the OH 25 frame or totally remove it, but give him decent strings and specials, so you can have mixup options.
If you know his tool, he is totally usless.

And btw SonicFox had Sub Zero in his tier list pretty low. Tweedy had him pretty low as well. PNDK&M had him at 14 place.

Sub is a problem to player that not know the matchup and spam OH/Low.
This is not a problem at Mid, High, Top level. Still the OH is going to hit you and open you, but this is his purpose right, otherwise how would Sub Zero open you up ? I also hate how inconsistent Sub Zero anti air is.
That being said, im watching Sikander stream daily and he is doing insanely good job with Sub Zero. He plays him great and beautifully. But he mostly use his Thin Ice variation.

Since its useful information


I'll gather the results for you:

Sub Zero top placings in Majors, Semi Majors and Locals:

VSF 2019: 1st
VSF 2019: 5th



You can look at the rest here, several are majors and even if a character doesn't place top 8 that's not an indicator the character is bad, its extremely hard to place top 32 let alone Top 16/8.

SUB ZERO Character statistics and tournament results

rank.shoryuken.com

Like I said he has many top placing in the Pro Kompetition tour and has done very well. One player to look for is 2eZ which made top 8's with Sub and Kollector.
Foxy uses sub as a pocket.
But that link has all Statistics of Sub Zero in tournament placings during MK11.

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

As a Baraka player, I feel he’s pretty easy

 

[lordlosh]

Dude with all due respect, your statistics s****.
This is the PRO Kompetition and Majors:

Mortal Kombat 11 Pro Kompetition announced — eSports tournament circuit with $255,000 up for grabs

Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate

Mortal Kombat is back and better than ever in the next evolution of the iconic franchise. The all new Custom Character Variations give you unprecedented control to customize the fighters and make them your own. The new graphics engine showcasing every skull-shattering, eye-popping moment, brings...

www.mortalkombat.com

The rest are some low, probably local tournaments, that 99,99% of the good players not participate. The prize money is 50 to 500$.

And you are giving pure lying stats, where A Foxy Grampa used Sub Zero in just 1 match, where he even lost and switch to Lao, and you are saying he won that tournament with Sub Zero.
You know how dumb that sounds? Cant you f**** accept for once you are not right, and stop trying to squeese something from your fingers ?
Here is the Grand Finals of VSFIghting, where the f* you see Sub Zero, explain it to me? Then how in the blue hell you can say Sub Zero place top 8 in that tournament, let alone place 1.

SonicFox used Cetrion in 1 tournament he won in just 1 match, does that mean Cetrion placed 1st in that tournament? You realize how dumb that sound?

I watch every big tournament and major so far.
The best placing was Daddy in top 24 at the CEO.
In Online Cup East, which is Online tournament, but is not a major, Daddy place top 8 as well. This is the Best placing for Sub Zero player of a big tournament.
So far there is not a single Sub Zero player in top 8 in a major.
You cant give character chart, where Kung Lao player, use Sub Zero in 1 or 2 out of 20 matches in the bracket for example, and to said Sub Zero placed first in that tournament.
In order to give proper chart, the player need to use that character in most of his matches, and even more to use that character mostly.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Dude with all due respect, your statistics s****.
This is the PRO Kompetition and Majors:

Mortal Kombat 11 Pro Kompetition announced — eSports tournament circuit with $255,000 up for grabs

Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate

Mortal Kombat is back and better than ever in the next evolution of the iconic franchise. The all new Custom Character Variations give you unprecedented control to customize the fighters and make them your own. The new graphics engine showcasing every skull-shattering, eye-popping moment, brings...

www.mortalkombat.com

The rest are some low, probably local tournaments, that 99,99% of the good players not participate. The prize money is 50 to 500$.

And you are giving pure lying stats, where A Foxy Grampa used Sub Zero in just 1 match, where he even lost and switch to Lao, and you are saying he won that tournament with Sub Zero.
You know how dumb that sounds? Cant you f**** accept for once you are not right, and stop trying to squeese something from your fingers ?
Here is the Grand Finals of VSFIghting, where the f* you see Sub Zero, explain it to me? Then how in the blue hell you can say Sub Zero place top 8 in that tournament, let alone place 1.

SonicFox used Cetrion in 1 tournament he won in just 1 match, does that mean Cetrion placed 1st in that tournament? You realize how dumb that sound?

I watch every big tournament and major so far.
The best placing was Daddy in top 24 at the CEO.
In Online Cup East, which is Online tournament, but is not a major, Daddy place top 8 as well. This is the Best placing for Sub Zero player of a big tournament.
So far there is not a single Sub Zero player in top 8 in a major.
You cant give character chart, where Kung Lao player, use Sub Zero in 1 or 2 out of 20 matches in the bracket for example, and to said Sub Zero placed first in that tournament.
In order to give proper chart, the player need to use that character in most of his matches, and even more to use that character mostly.

I didn't lie about anything. Look at the link I provided you can see for yourself. Premiere 5-12 are considered majors they just are not on the pro komp tour stops and many of these tournaments are not in the US. It also lists when they are used as a secondary and when sub was used as a main. It even lists the players global ranking.
But if you are only talking about Mandatory Majors then yes he only won a single tournament and placed top 16 a few times.

But that's very selective to ignore so many premier's with so many high ranking top players.

I guess we disagree with that as well. I believe Sub is a solid character despite his flaws. I also believe the same about my main. Despite his wiffing issues vs certain females

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

According the poll here on TYM the easiest characters to use at a high level are:

1. Liu Kang
2. Sub Zero
3. Geras
4. Baraka
5. Scorpion

This is not a reflection of player skill but a reflection of how easy the character is to be effective.
The meta of MK11 has multiple layers of mind games and some requiring footsies, MU experience & knowledge of the characters, frame data and even gaps.
This is not to say anyone who mains these characters are bad players or unskilled just the learning curve is easier with them. There is definitely hard things to master any character at a high level.

 

[lordlosh]

I didn't lie about anything. Look at the link I provided you can see for yourself. Premiere 5-12 are considered majors they just are not on the pro komp tour stops and many of these tournaments are not in the US. It also lists when they are used as a secondary and when sub was used as a main. It even lists the players global ranking.
But if you are only talking about Mandatory Majors then yes he only won a single tournament and placed top 16 a few times.

But that's very selective to ignore so many premier's with so many high ranking top players.

I guess we disagree with that as well. I believe Sub is a solid character despite his flaws. I also believe the same about my main. Despite his wiffing issues vs certain females

They are not major tournament. Go check the major tournament list again. You can check the prize money as well. Almost all majors Prize money for first place is 10k+.
And again Sub Zero didnt win a single tournament. His best placing is top 8 in online tournament, and top 24 in the CEO, thanks to Daddy.

You understand how stupid its sound to say someone place 1 with Sub Zero, when he did not used that character or you missed the video of the Grand Final of the tournament you said Sub Zero placed 1 there, yet Foxy plays Kung Lao, through the whole tournament, except 1 set he lost with Sub Zero?

Again you didnt answer my question, at the EVO in the bracket SonicFox used Cetrion against Liu Kang player, in just 1 match, does that mean Cetrion places 1st at the EVO, when SonicFox played Cassie entire tournament and she was his main.

Another question for you, if SonicFox or Scar or any pro decide to use every character in the roster in 1 tournament and won it, does that mean, entire roster placed 1 in that tournament?

And again if we are to look small local tournament and online events, where 99,99% of the pro player are missing, Kollector is multiple time top 8 character.

BTW i dont even call Dazzy a Liu Kang player, and not put him in the sum, even tho he play 1/3 of his matches with Kang.