MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

[Rodney Quillz]

+6 is very real in the corner. If your opponent pokes , or moves forward in anyway b2 will hit. They are forced to not press anything and that opens up other options.

That’s what I said before, imagine the way it works in the corner working mid screen.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

No I dont play for money I guess my rebuttal to the BS is why dont we see johnny in KL or player matches where nothing of importance is on the line.

The answer is simple hes a difficult character to actually win with unlike the rest of the cast maybe besides kitana now, I play johnny and still win despite the uphill battle.
Watch a tekken pro and watch how much movement and "shimmy" you see, that's johnny cage of the 2d form.

 

[M.D.]

b2 does not hit in the corner after +6 .

b2 is 14, so it comes out in 8 frames done perfect.

You will get d1ed non stop. I'm practically doing it in training mode as I type this with noob's 7 frame d1.
Please don't make me make a video of it because I'm lazy.

Not only this, but b2 has a hitbox issue that will whiff crouching players from a distance where if they were standing it would hit.
The distance is almost the one that 124 puts you in the corner. If I let go of block standing b2 hits, if I just crouch, it whiffs.

So please, as I said before, LAB IT BEFORE YOU TYPE IT.

 

[heildan]

I must agree with Error404 and other people here.

124 is good in the corner, but in midscreen isn't all that as some try to make it look, and I have to repeat myself, because of the pushback.

It gives quite time for the opponent to take a breath, provided that:

Its pushes not far enough so he can't:

• Safely start landing b34 just after it without being interrupted by almost any faster string. Its 18f;
• Do f4, since it has slow startup;

And it do not pushes so lightly to be just in throw/f2/
sweep or hop range, rather giving them room to think what is coming next;

It leaves the opponent in f3 range, which can smartly be countered by patiently crouch blocking and poking if he dares to throw you, once he tries to move towards you.

Insinuating that it catches people trying to mash shouldn't be brought into this discussion, since its mashing after all.

 

[M.D.]

Nobody said it's a bad tool.

But some people come in here yelling like it's Jacqui Briggs pressure.

OMFG CAGE COMUNITY WHAT YOU WANT FORCEBALLS TO NOT BE BUGGED CANT YOU SEE YOU HAVE A +6 MOTHEROUFIDSHUJDSHGdsjhg
etc etc

Unfortunately this is mostly because of the inapt comentators that keep going with bullshit like "OMFG CAGE PRESSURE" "HES A PRESSURE CHARACTER" "OMG CAGE AGAIN" and all that crap.

 

[DeftMonk]

So your saying +6 resets neutral wow or it does 11% damage kicks them far away.
You guys are right no character jails d1 into a +6 string ok cool lets look at what Sonya gets after d1 MIXUP CITY.
Another example baraka is similar to johnny that after you block the jail the options are low but on hit wow johnny gets 11% baraka gets a 55% KB or 37%bnb so let's not sit here and act like johnny got the only jailing buff, id personally rather be -7 with a chance of 25-50 % combos than reseting the neutral.

What has less recovery though ?

First of all 12 can hit confirm into a combo that restands or wall carry or oki. And if ur saying like dash distance +6 if useless reset of neutral I dnuno what to tell you. I dunno even what your talking about jailing buff. D1 on hit forced people to stand into 124 prepatch is this something you thought was new? Maybe this is evidence you should hit the lab more bro. If you would rather have some 50/50 nonsense then you arent gonna be happy until you swap to another char...that isnt Johnny Cage in mk11. Maybe get the pc version play sonya and swap the skins I don't know what to tell you.

I don't want to be like negative nancy always tryin to tell you guys to quit cryin but shit imagine if there was like 1/10 of you posting something like how to handle a certain matchup instead of oh shit johhnny cant jail into mix city! This forum might be useful.

 

[Error404]

b2 does not hit in the corner after +6 .

b2 is 14, so it comes out in 8 frames done perfect.

You will get d1ed non stop. I'm practically doing it in training mode as I type this with noob's 7 frame d1.
Please don't make me make a video of it because I'm lazy.

Not only this, but b2 has a hitbox issue that will whiff crouching players from a distance where if they were standing it would hit.
The distance is almost the one that 124 puts you in the corner. If I let go of block standing b2 hits, if I just crouch, it whiffs.

So please, as I said before, LAB IT BEFORE YOU TYPE IT.

I have and it does . Pokes are 7 frames. They come out before b2 and b2 whiff punishes them , due to pushback from 124. I do it in every match. YOU go lab it.

 

[OceanOne]

Hi.

Noob is indeed one of the matchups where his amplified forceballs do not whiff. That means that he should, after strings on block, cancel into them and be +3 on block.

The issue with +3 on block is that Cage has the following buttons to get in

b3 - the low advancing kick. 18 frame startup. Meaning after +3 you have time to start a full combo with 113 if you see him do it. If you are not sure, just d4 guaranteed.

f3 - the high advancing kick. 16 frame startup, but it's a high. A d4 will always hit him out of it, but you still have time to 113 him out of it as it's a 13 frame gap. Just record it in practice mode and just start pressing buttons not respecting it and you'll see.

f4 - the mid advancing kick (knee). 14 frame startup, meaning you have an 11 frame gap. Still not guaranteed pressure, still free to d4. The window to press something is tighter here but still works.
After f4 he is -5, and after f44 he is -6, so it's a guaranteed grab attempt or b1 from your side, he has to guess. If he doesn't want it, he has to spend another bar for f4 amp forceballs.

Cage will have to spam his d4, which is +17 on hit and it guarantees a f3 (the forward high kick that follows up in the three mid kicks). This is his main and only tool to guarantee this string .


What Cage players usually (and should) do is fish for a d4 on hit, or walk back and make you whiff something, and then use one of the three kicks mentioned above.

The problem vs noob is that once Cage does f344 he is -2, and he cannot backdash d4 if you just mash it. It will always clip him. So his mindgame of doing the string and walking back to bait a whiff does not work here.

The biggest weakness to Cage is that on all 3 advancing kicks, he is very free to neutral jumps. b34 and f44 net you a full combo from neutral jump, and f3 might clip you but you will fall out of the string guaranteeing nothing.

f344 is a one input string. Meaning he must choose to do it before he confirms it. This means that if they commit to the string, they can't anti air with only f3 and then do a combo. They will have to expect your jump and do raw f3 into anti air 2, 121 ender.

You will see here that d4 and b1 are your best moves against cage. b1 absolutely destroys him if he commits to anything after anything on block, as it's a 9 frame mid leading into your biggest damage.

If you have a replay of the match I'll be glad to show you where the gaps were and when you could have pressed buttons.

Just remember that Cage pressure is ENTIRELY fake. He has nothing guaranteed after anything on block, as he is not plus enough and his mids are not fast enough. All he can do is walk back and bait you.

Hey, that's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. I'll literally make a post it with the most important points to remember when facing him (including the psychological aspect of the pressure not being real) and lab every move you mentioned to get a visual reference.

Again, thanks a lot man, appreciate it!

 

[DeftMonk]

If that's what you understood from layer 1, let alone layer 3-4 stuff, I can't be assed explaining footsies to you.

Maybe bc ppl play for money and pick 99% of the time the top 5.

Do you play for money?

Just seems this subforum has a lot of ppl who are straight up bad and don't understand footsies, maybe nrs games are all they've ever played.

My apologies that a footsie based char has to be frequented by ppl who know nothing about the topic, to any understanding individual

Thank god I thought no one had any idea wtf was going on. Qwark is just touching onto the layers of after 124 so to speak. So heres an example of how this might play out. you 124, dude is not a fucking botard who thinks this game has 1 layer or less and blocks to see what you do (this is likely if hes good also walking backwards is). You f344 he blocks.(not gonna go into this) Next time you 124 hes playing searing rage scorp so he does reversal whip ur chain back and forth. This gives you a multitude of options since you guessed that is coming. Shadow kick, straight up punish, Force ball if your tryin to bait a TP next since youll have a bar in soon... hell guess what you can even f3 him but its like a 1-2 fframe window. He might push buttons, (this isnt mashing hes hitting a faster string guessing correctly that you might f3 and he gets a full combo) if he does that whiff punish him...Jc is good at that. Every option they have you have an option that wins. Every option either you guess right they eat it or they get jailed more. You just got to actually take time to see wtf you can do.

Johnny is not top 3 but jesus way you guys make it sound everyone has street fighter frames and hes calling in banana airstrikes 500000 frames away from donkey kong country.

 

[lionheart21]

Thank god I thought no one had any idea wtf was going on. Qwark is just touching onto the layers of after 124 so to speak. So heres an example of how this might play out. you 124, dude is not a fucking botard who thinks this game has 1 layer or less and blocks to see what you do (this is likely if hes good also walking backwards is). You f344 he blocks.(not gonna go into this) Next time you 124 hes playing searing rage scorp so he does reversal whip ur chain back and forth. This gives you a multitude of options since you guessed that is coming. Shadow kick, straight up punish, Force ball if your tryin to bait a TP next since youll have a bar in soon... hell guess what you can even f3 him but its like a 1-2 fframe window. Every option they have you have an option that wins. Every option either you guess right they eat it or they get jailed more. You just got to actually take time to see wtf you can do.

Johnny is not top 3 but jesus way you guys make it sound everyone has street fighter frames and hes calling in banana airstrikes 500000 frames away from donkey kong country.

The man mains Kotal and has competed with him. If anyone's gonna know how to make the best of a bad situation, its someone like him.

 

[DeftMonk]

The man mains Kotal and has competed with him. If anyone's gonna know how to make the best of a bad situation, its someone like him.

I dunno about that but he played joker in inj2 as did I. If you played joker throughout inj2 unless you are horrible or like punishment...you are fond of setplay and layers of options.

 

[Professor Oak]

Could have done without the false arrogance and elitist jibber jabber tbh.

Felt like I was reading a post from Oak/MagicMan.

Play the character.

Seeing is believing right?

Show everyone that their bad! That they have shitty “neutral.”

let's play, bud.

 

[Frank Reed]

So what does showstopper offer besides a one time combo when we are in fatal blow territory? What are the bnbs and strategy outside of that situation? I feel like losing brass knuckles, caged rage and mime time isn’t worth it. Thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 35141]

First of all 12 can hit confirm into a combo that restands or wall carry or oki. And if ur saying like dash distance +6 if useless reset of neutral I dnuno what to tell you. I dunno even what your talking about jailing buff. D1 on hit forced people to stand into 124 prepatch is this something you thought was new? Maybe this is evidence you should hit the lab more bro. If you would rather have some 50/50 nonsense then you arent gonna be happy until you swap to another char...that isnt Johnny Cage in mk11. Maybe get the pc version play sonya and swap the skins I don't know what to tell you.

I don't want to be like negative nancy always tryin to tell you guys to quit cryin but shit imagine if there was like 1/10 of you posting something like how to handle a certain matchup instead of oh shit johhnny cant jail into mix city! This forum might be useful.

So the best johnny MAIN is a liar then, or it actually didn't work against every character as it does now.
Edit- dont bother replying back im done with the arrogant posters here

 

[Rodney Quillz]

let's play, bud.

Drop me your psn, I would love to play you sometime.

I wasnt making a challenge or trying to beef btw, just the way you go about things make you seem like a sanctimonious prick a lot of the time.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

let's play, bud.

You just proved his point

 

[M.D.]

I have and it does . Pokes are 7 frames. They come out before b2 and b2 whiff punishes them , due to pushback from 124. I do it in every match. YOU go lab it.

I just said I was doing it on the screen in practice as I was typing. d1 reaches, it does not whiff.

I don't need to lab it because it happens every single time I actually PLAY THE GAME with my friends that know what to do.

You know..exactly what you should be doing instead of posting bullshit here.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

You just proved his point

Lol it’s not even about that, I’m not going at him, I just don’t like the way he goes about things.

At least he isn’t a bitch like MagicMan lol

 

[Deleted member 35141]

Drop me your psn, I would love to play you sometime.

I wasnt making a challenge or trying to beef btw, just the way you go about things make you seem like a sanctimonious prick a lot of the time.

No you proved your point and someone must have went crying to him saying you said his name.
I'm done with this fucking character forum where were some of these posters the last 3 months.
There are some posters here that I disagree with but I respect them, but these last 3 guys have so much arrogance

 

[heildan]

This is turning into a battle of egos, who shouts louder than the other. Can we please move on and maintain the focus of this subject on the character? Thanks everybody.

We could do the following. Since there are people in here that have joined us into this matter but you know, don't main him, however mains someother character, we can proceed to learn from each other, exchange info about frames and MU knowledge between their main and ours.

Any thoughts to be brought into consideration?

 

[Error404]

d1 reaches, it does not whiff.

Maybe Kitana and still maybe. It's one thing to downplay , this is straight lying.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

No you proved your point and someone must have went crying to him saying you said his name.
I'm done with this fucking character forum where were some of these posters the last 3 months.
There are some posters here that I disagree with but I respect them, but these last 3 guys have so much arrogance

I mean I don’t like the attitudes because they are not needed but as far as I know qwark attends tourneys and is probably involved with the inner circle some what, he knows he shit but comes off as smarmy so people tend to ignore the knowledge he drops and tend to focus more on his attitude.

Oak is similar in this regard(the irony of him and qwark not really liking each other is hilarious)

I think MagicMan is a legit troll though.

 

[lionheart21]

I mean I don’t like the attitudes because they are not needed but as far as I know qwark attends tourneys and is probably involved with the inner circle some what, he knows he shit but comes off as smarmy so people tend to ignore the knowledge he drops and tend to focus more on his attitude.

Oak is similar in this regard(the irony of him and qwark not really liking each other is hilarious)

I think MagicMan is a legit troll though.

Oak's not a bad guy, he's just really focused on learning the game

 

[Rodney Quillz]

This is turning into a battle of egos, who shouts louder than the other. Can we please move on and maintain the focus of this subject on the character? Thanks everybody.

We could do the following. Since there are people in here that have joined us into this matter but you know, don't main him, however maining someother character, we can proceed to learn from each other, exchange info about frames and MU knowledge between their main and ours.

Any thoughts to be brought into consideration?

The internet brings out the worst in people my man.

What you want is civil conversation.

You are never going to get that here lol

 

[Rodney Quillz]

Oak's not a bad guy, he's just really focused on learning the game

His impatience with people makes him SEEM like one though, as soon as someone says something he feels is false or he disagrees with he seems to jump straight into a “holier than thou” attitude.


If you are trying to explain something to someone and they don’t get it or they aren’t trying to hear it, then let it be, I don’t see the reason to start trashing the person like a 15 year old COD player.

Oak will drop some gems on people but they don’t really try to comprehend what he’s saying because he’s also calling them a scrub and telling them they are bad at the game at the same time.