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Kano Changes Prediction Thread

Murderation76

Murderation76

knife boi
I've been avoiding commenting on what changes/buffs I'd like to see for Kano until I really put the work in. Well, after grinding out thousands of matches and working my way through Season 1 KL all the way to God rank (100% Ripper) I feel like I have a fairly strong grasp of his toolset and the more common matchups.

Overall, I would prefer Kano RETAINS the holes in his game and instead has his tools made more consistent with a slightly more favorable risk/reward ratio. I personally prefer a meta where we must condition the opponent in order to use certain tools and make commitments/calculated risks. IMO, the best thing that can happen for Kano players is the normalization of the tippity-top tier. Geras, Erron, Cassie, Jacqui, Kabal ect are characters that when played optimally, demand respect without conditioning, have to take no real risks and commit to nothing for great reward. I do not want this for Kano.

I don't wanna see something outright stupid like making S2 a mid (NRS will NEVER do this anyways). So many people asking for this don't quite grasp how absurd this would be. Kano would be instantly S tier. Most of his other tools would become superfulous. I don't want to see Kano turned into a one-dimensional 9f mid character where every positive frame situation and knockdown is reduced to 9f mid or command grab.

I really don't think Kano needs F1 to be a mid either. Other than hitting the krushing blow, It would make B3 obsolete. A 3f dash cancel into F1 gives you nearly the same range as B3. If NRS did make it mid they would surely increase the recovery on it to compensate. A 13f mid with great range, +1 on block that leads into a hit-confirmable string (that is +2 if the gap is respected) would be stupid strong and become the default meaty button in all situations. Almost every knockdown Kano has is within range of a dash canceled F1. Again, this would make Kano's gameplan very linear and braindead. F1 as it is now is a great, under-utilized button once you've conditioned the opponent to respect B3. The real problem is that the rest of the string is dogshit. I would prefer they fix the string to give Kano a real strong stagger/hitconfirm option as I mention below.

The Necessities (Kano needs these just for consistent application of his current tools)
  • Slight extension on the hitbox of second and third hit of 241+3. The landing the S2 and low whiffing has cost me plenty of matches and is just infuriating. The 1+3 could use a slightly longer horizontal hitbox so it can be consistently landed when opponent is in juggle state. This string is the only way for Kano to convert for substantial damage on a grounded opponent as well as properly punish---we need this to be a reliable string.
  • Fix hitbox so S1 jails off of D1
  • D1 to +11 on hit. One additional frame to help with consistent S2 jailing is not too much to ask.
  • Due to the OS we're all aware of by now, the "mixup" off of 24 is near useless against someone competent in the Kano matchup. There are a couple ways to fix this-- Either speed up the startup on 1+3 so it can still be flawless blocked but creates a true mixup OR make 24 by itself -6 on block (to create stagger options). I'd prefer the latter as it would really open up our options in Kano's pressure game. Lumbar check being made a mid would also fix this... but I'm not gonna ask for that much.
Buffs I'd love to see
  • 112 special cancelable. This would add several important facets to his offense. It would give Kano respectable damage off of an 8f punish with 112xkanoball amp, this would a big help on a few matchups (esp Cetrion, with -9 stagger). It would increase the potency of the mixup off of blocked 11 (11xlumbar tick/112xxkanoball). This string is gapped, so it would allow Kano to create a mindgame of baiting a flawless block U2 and punishing with 112xxrack off.
  • B1 startup from 13f to 10f. This would allow Kano to safely enforce respect when opponent is negative without over-buffing him. In situations where Kano is routinely disrespected (i.e Kano blocks a string that leaves opponent -1 to -7) Kano would have a stronger strike option. I feel B1xxknife toss is underutilized by many Kano players---especially in the corner where it sets up a+16 on hit 50/50 (lumbar check / Jailed S2). Also, if they ever give us a variation with snake bite or bio-mag pull, then this would give us decent damage off of a 10f mid (if willing to commit since it's not hit confirmable).
  • 2nd hit of F12B2 a mid and remove damage scaling(or at very least special high so it doesn't whiff on crouch block). This would make the string usable and give Kano a potent stagger/hit-confirm/pressure string.
  • F3 changed to -7 on block.
  • B2 is currently high risk/low reward. It's death on block, launches inconsistently (dependant on opponent hitbox and duck/stand state), and has shit damage scaling. I would say keep it punishable, but speed it up to 13f startup, make the launch consistent and decrease scaling so we get 26% midscreen and +30% corner... or keep it as is and make it -9 on block so it's safe when properly spaced.
  • Fatal blow startup from 25f to 21f. One of the worst FBs in the game. All I ask is to be able to consistently blowup breakaways. The most common breakaway we see is off 241+3 amp, and it's a 1f frame link to hit it with FB. 3f-5f faster would make this consistently possible in live matches.
  • F43 Krushing blow--- forget this "blocks late" shit and change it to "on counterhit". It's a mad slow button, so I think this is fair.
 
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E

Erotic_Walrus

Noob
Here's what I'd like to see for Kano, however unrealistic it is (although I don't believe any of this would make him broken):

  • D1 hit advantage +2, allowing for more consistent jailing into neutral 2.
  • Remove the bullshit damage scaling from B2 and decrease startup frames to 11. Make it launch consistently from all ranges, against ducking and standing opponents.
  • Make F3 -7 on block.
  • Make amplified Blade Toss -7 on block. There is no reason it should be -11 when the unamplified version is -7.
  • Make Lumbar Check a mid. There is no argument against this, as other characters with far more inherent advantages over Kano also have mid command grabs.
  • Make Manhandled a part of his default kit and NOT an equippable ability. (Seriously, who even though of this!?)
  • Make F1 a mid AND ensure that the followup 2 properly hits all crouch blocking opponents.
  • Make 1,1,2 special cancelable.
  • B1 startup decreased to 9 frames. Why 9 instead of 10? Because that puts it on par with his strictly offensive starter, and B1 is an escape move. It SHOULD be fast(er) for that very reason.
  • Decrease startup for F4 to 15-20 frames and allow it to crush all pokes and low attacks. (It already high profiles Sub-Zero's slide; why can't it beat out a D1?)
  • Either increase the length of the 4's hitbox in 2, 4, 1+3 or cause standing 2 to "hook" the opponent in closer so the string cannot whiff if 2 hits.
Additionally, Kano's Krushing Blows desperately need work. Four of them (in Ripper) are 100% dependent upon not only your inputs, but your opponents' as well! Dirtbag has nothing but Enziguiri, D2, and throws even available to it! Here are my suggestions for KBs.

  • Change F4, 3's trigger to EITHER "on punish/kounter hit" or to "third time in a match."
  • Change Lumbar Check's KB condition to "when used in a kombo of 8 or more hits." This would basically require a full 2, 4, 1+3 combo off of a jump-in, OR his optimal, which requires a strictly-timed dash cancel into 1, 1 following 2, 4, 1+3 and before F2.
  • Kano Ball needs a KB, as it is available to him in both variations. Trigger: specifically punishing or kountering a projectile.
  • Figjam (2, 2, 1+3!) could have a new KB that shows Kano dragging the knife down his opponent's spine from between their shoulder blades. Trigger: punish/counter hit. Even more relevant if Manhandled becomes part of Kano's universal toolset.
And I agree with others who have said that Dirtbag needs Chemical Burn to have a long enough range to cancel effectively out of any normal; and Molotov needs its startup brought WAY down. Like, it really should be comparable to Erron Black's Acid startup.
 
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Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
Erotic_Walrus said:
Here's what I'd like to see for Kano, however unrealistic it is (although I don't believe any of this would make him broken):

  • D1 hit advantage +2, allowing for more consistent jailing into neutral 2.
  • Remove the bullshit damage scaling from B2 and decrease startup frames to 11. Make it launch consistently from all ranges, against ducking and standing opponents.
  • Make F3 -7 on block.
  • Make amplified Blade Toss -7 on block. There is no reason it should be -11 when the unamplified version is -7.
  • Make Lumbar Check a mid. There is no argument against this, as other characters with far more inherent advantages over Kano also have mid command grabs.
  • Make Manhandled a part of his default kit and NOT an equippable ability. (Seriously, who even though of this!?)
  • Make F1 a mid AND ensure that the followup 2 properly hits all crouch blocking opponents.
  • Make 1,1,2 special cancelable.
  • B1 startup decreased to 9 frames. Why 9 instead of 10? Because that puts it on par with his strictly offensive starter, and B1 is an escape move. It SHOULD be fast(er) for that very reason.
  • Decrease startup for F4 to 15-20 frames and allow it to crush all pokes and low attacks. (It already high profiles Sub-Zero's slide; why can't it beat out a D1?)
  • Either increase the length of the 4's hitbox in 2, 4, 1+3 or cause standing 2 to "hook" the opponent in closer so the string cannot whiff if 2 hits.
Additionally, Kano's Krushing Blows desperately need work. Four of them (in Ripper) are 100% dependent upon not only your inputs, but your opponents' as well! Dirtbag has nothing but Enziguiri, D2, and throws even available to it! Here are my suggestions for KBs.

  • Change F4, 3's trigger to EITHER "on punish/kounter hit" or to "third time in a match."
  • Change Lumbar Check's KB condition to "when used in a kombo of 8 or more hits." This would basically require a full 2, 4, 1+3 combo off of a jump-in, OR his optimal, which requires a strictly-timed dash cancel into 1, 1 following 2, 4, 1+3 and before F2.
  • Kano Ball needs a KB, as it is available to him in both variations. Trigger: specifically punishing or kountering a projectile.
  • Figjam (2, 2, 1+3!) could have a new KB that shows Kano dragging the knife down his opponent's spine from between their shoulder blades. Trigger: punish/counter hit. Even more relevant if Manhandled becomes part of Kano's universal toolset.
And I agree with others who have said that Dirtbag needs Chemical Burn to have a long enough range to cancel effectively out of any normal; and Molotov needs its startup brought WAY down. Like, it really should be comparable to Erron Black's Acid startup.
Click to expand...
Dude... lol.

If he had ALL this he'd be straight up ridiculous. That's waay waay waay too much.
 
Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
Erotic_Walrus said:
He still wouldn't be Baraka's equal.
Click to expand...
You're right, he wouldn't be his equal because he'd be literally the most broken character in the game.

If his D1 is +12 on hit and he has a safe overhead that is 15ish frames, do you realize how nuts that would be?

With what you said, he could F1 in (which you want as a mid) then he'll be +1 on block. Boom, free 13f startup +on block far advancing mid.
Then the opponent would be in a ridiculous position because they'd either have to risk getting hit by a D1 that Kano could safely jail his 241+3, B1xxAmpKnife, and overhead off of OR Lumbar Check (which you want as mid too) so they'd have to jump out. If they jump, they also wouldn't be able to punish the Lumbar Check because the recovery on it is so good.

Kano would only risk getting hit by a D1 AT WORST after the opponent gets hit by a Kano D1 and the opponent risks practically dying because 241+3 leads to a Krushing Blow (which you want off of just 8 hits). Kano's 241+3 combo already does 330ish, with a Krushing Blow it'd be nuts.

All this AND a 9f mid, a complete free easy way to roll in while avoiding projectiles and still being safe (you want F3 to be -7), AND more Krushing Blows?

Kano needs some some buffs, but stacking too many strong buffs onto a weak characters is exactly how developers create a character that just absolutely dominates a game in the worst way possible.
 
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MagicMan357

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
  • b1 from 11f to 10
  • b2 a few frames faster on hit recovery
  • f3 should allow for follow ups if used in anti air or juggle
  • f2,ud1 Kb for 10 hit combos
  • f1 should be a few frames faster
  • f1,2 should allow a frame cancel off his spit animation (kinda works already)
  • make molotov the same as erron or kollector, i dont get why its so bad
  • allow 112 to be cancel-able
  • allow chem toss to combo off more than 24
  • make his regular 223 rebound juggle air borne opponents
  • bio vacuum should allow for follow up if it anti airs
  • bio trap + knives should equal free combo of the trap hits (what else is the point)
  • - make his regular 241 restand opponent
 
K

kcd117

Kombatant
Imo Kano doesn't need a lot.

Buffs:

1) D1 +12 on hit - He needs his S2 to be guaranteed after a D1 on hit, and not a 1-frame inconsistent link.

2) B3 being +2 on block - He currently doesn't have a way to enforce respect to anything he can do. He relies solely on lack of matchup knowledge to get anything going. B3 being + would fix this issue as it would guarantee his D1 and make people actually respect him somewhere as D1 would lead to his mix.

3) 24 being -4 on block - It would solve the problem of his 24 mix being OSable as Kano would be able to stagger 24 and punish people for trying to do that.

4) 112 being cancelable - C'mon NRS, why do we even have to ask this lol.

Those are the only actual buffs he needs imo. But he needs some fixes.

Fixes:

1) S2 hitbox correction.

2) F4 crushing pokes and a useful KB - Erron's F4 does it, and his should too. It is a 25 frame overhead with way less range that flips over people's hands mashing D1 and still gets caught by them lol. The KB part is just dumb, that current requirement shouldn't exist at all.

3) F12 string to be corrected, and whoever made it the way it is rn to be fired.

With those changes I think he'd be fine.
 
CriticalDrop

CriticalDrop

Beers, grabs & dropped combos
kcd117 said:
1) D1 +12 on hit - He needs his S2 to be guaranteed after a D1 on hit, and not a 1-frame inconsistent link.

2) B3 being +2 on block - He currently doesn't have a way to enforce respect to anything he can do. He relies solely on lack of matchup knowledge to get anything going. B3 being + would fix this issue as it would guarantee his D1 and make people actually respect him somewhere as D1 would lead to his mix.

3) 24 being -4 on block - It would solve the problem of his 24 mix being OSable as Kano would be able to stagger 24 and punish people for trying to do that
Click to expand...
At this point, I really think those are the priorities right now. Specially the D1 frames adjustment.
 
Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
Random thought:

With how bad some of Kano's stuff is compared to everyone else, I could only imagine that NRS thought that base Kano was going to be a problem somehow when they were developing him pre-release.

If you remember correctly, pre-day1 patch his 241+3 was +1 on block too. They nerfed it to -4.

I tried to wrap my head around why they thought he deserved to be so limited on so many aspects of his game, and I came to the thought that he might have been a very popular character while they were developing the game in the QA department. I know it sounds wacky and conspiracy-like, but I think the popularity of the character while developing the game really does play a part into what the testers think is strong or not.

If you play a bunch of good Jades but no good Jacquis, you might be inclined to think that Jade is better than Jacqui because people are putting more time and effort into her.

When the game is released though, millions of people have the opportunity to put time into every single character and the truly good and bad characters start to emerge almost instantly.
 
K

kcd117

Kombatant
Circus said:
Random thought:

With how bad some of Kano's stuff is compared to everyone else, I could only imagine that NRS thought that base Kano was going to be a problem somehow when they were developing him pre-release.

If you remember correctly, pre-day1 patch his 241+3 was +1 on block too. They nerfed it to -4.

I tried to wrap my head around why they thought he deserved to be so limited on so many aspects of his game, and I came to the thought that he might have been a very popular character while they were developing the game in the QA department. I know it sounds wacky and conspiracy-like, but I think the popularity of the character while developing the game really does play a part into what the testers think is strong or not.

If you play a bunch of good Jades but no good Jacquis, you might be inclined to think that Jade is better than Jacqui because people are putting more time and effort into her.

When the game is released though, millions of people have the opportunity to put time into every single character and the truly good and bad characters start to emerge almost instantly.
Click to expand...
I think the pre-launch version of Kano was really strong. If I remember correctly his B2 was safe and his overhead was cancelable too.

On paper, Kano has the tools to deal with everything, literally he has a move for everything people can do to him, and I think NRS saw that they gave him great neutral options and decided to nerf them all, resulting in a character that has a lot of options but they all are risky as hell and don't lead to anything.

I'm pretty sure he was nerfed before the game came out bc NRS didn't want a character with 50/50s dominating the early meta.

What surprises me is that when I played the review build, Sonya's dmg and ring toss were already obnoxious, Sub's 50/50 was already fraudulent as hell, and Geras' was easily one of the most broken characters I had ever played. They all managed to get BUFFED since then! Meanwhile, Kano got nerfed based on what we've seen in his Kombat Kast. Idk but I don't trust the quality of NRS' gameplay balance team at all.
 
Daemantalo

Daemantalo

Not Good Enough
My personal wishlist

  1. B3 to be 0 on block
  2. Second hit of F1(2) is a mid.
  3. D1 +13 on hit
  4. 2(4) doesn’t whiff the second hit if the first 2 hits
  5. 22 is -2 on block
  6. Amplified Air Ball hits crouching opponents
  7. Crushing blow (24% total) on Amplified Air Kano Ball if hit with Vegemighty buff.
  8. Cocktail is faster on start-up (EB has a ridiculous startup on his Acid. Why can’t we have ours faster?)
  9. F2 + DU4 is a crushing blow when used as a punish.
  10. Chemical burn is faster so it can connect off a F2
I expect some disagreements about crushing blow buffs. I stand by the 1-6 & 8 buffs wholeheartedly; the rest are luxurious.
 
MagicMan357

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
Main Summary:
this is what i dont get about kano. He has moves that other characters have but they have way better versions with a already substantial move set.

B1:
I get why they gave him this tool since its actually really busted yet it somehow finds barely any use except spacing away from the opponent off a read. One thing that made me realize how lacking it was is when we all found out that if you throw knives into a person and bio vac them, they take more damage similar to devorahs fly. But it has no other use! Why not a free combo like: b1xBioVac (knives). 2,4,MBgrab. b2. f1,2. 112xBall. More options please.

Vege Might:
WHERE ARE THE CANCELS NRS? YOU THINK WE FORGOT ABOUT MKX? Also i think this should buff optic blast somehow

Chem toss:
Chem toss is a prime example to me. First off i love using is with BioVac and Lumbar, yet the issue remains you can only reliably use it of 2,4 which is nonsense. You cant even use it off f2 or better yet f3! Give us more reasons to use the tools NRS! Why not make it -9 and allow it to be spaced out with d4 or even b1 which barely has much use.

Manhandled vs Snakebite:
This actually boggles my mind. So i actually get why you wouldnt give kano manhandled in his base move set just based off all his custom moves (which im stating are lacking) yet the issue remains...Why the hell is manhandled 1 slot but snakebite is 2? This is legit insanity because the point of snake bite is to give him constant 30% range damage yet thats the only thing when hes punish character and it doesnt even grant oki. Manhandled gives a base move combo extension and some honestly weak oki but once again it has 2 functions smh. Kanos regular 2,4,1 should just re-stand and not knock people away which i think is the main issue with him.

2,1,4:
This NEEDS to restand people and i think alot of his main issues would go down with his base kit. Think about it, were playing a punish character who can mid tier zone yet has moves like lumbar check to get in yet once again his tool set is opposite to this. Why not a simple combo set up like: 2,2xMBbioVac. b2. 1,1. 2,4,1. > micro-dash > d1xLumbar. Just simple things like that would make kano click for alot more people who seem to not use anything but d1.

Optic blast:
Just give me a buff that either makes it faster, more damage, or combos. Thats it.

Bio vac:
I personally think they thought this move was to powerful with lumbar so they made the recovery on hit very bad. Thats a huge issue because even when you juggle in the air with it, the timing for a follow up is way too hard because of it. If anything just give the regular version either less range on hit or period. The knife combo should grant a free combo on the ground with out resources, its like they forgot breakaway exist and we just spent a bar.

Molotov:
How can you have a trap function that even EB has thats long as hell but you didnt just copy kollectors, which is super fast but a small active window? It wouldnt be more broken than a character with way better normals so why not?
My main issue with this game is that they limited too much of the game mechanics while having a safe guard like breakout. They should allow mk to be mk at the highest possible level.

2,2,3:
Regular 2,2,3 needs a real purpose besides non existent oki. Allow it to rebound in a juggle. Thats it. Manhandled version needs to give more frames for a purpose to choose it.

f1,2:
Allow the spit animation to be normal canceled.

I always think about combos for kano like this, give us variety:
  • b2. 11. 223 (rebound). 2,4,MBgrab. f3. f2xMBLumbar
  • b2. f1,2. 112xBall
  • f2xMBvege. b2, f1,2. 11. f2xBall
  • 2,4,MB grab. 3. 11. f3. f2xMolotov
  • b1xMBvege. 22xBioVac (with knives already in them). 2,4,MBgrab. f3. 112xBall
  • b2. 22xBioVac. 1,1. f2xMBSnakebite. f3. f2xMBLumbar.
ETC.
 
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