ZeroSymbolic
Motor City Warrior
Cetrion all day.
Sonya, cassie, geras, jade, and skarlett to name a few
doesn't the teleport keep them honest, like i said?
Not really, no. Noob still has to walk his way in vs quite a few characters, and the two moves, air scythe and teleport are highly telegraphed and punishable. I have no incentive to be forced into action against him (the hallmark of a defensive character), and can full combo punish either of those options fairly easily on reaction. He's defensive in the sense that his playstyle is defensive, but I wouldn't give him the vote because he is too easily removed from his playstyle by other characters.
Seeing double is actually much more defensive. I have been turtling all day with it. Slide makes people jump more right into F3. Better for getting the clone KB, better pokes with being able to cancel d4 into slide to catch people, air tele faster than air sickle for checking zoning on bad jumps such as against mb projectiles especially. Im thinking Seeing Double may actually be better overall
I can literally spam Forceballs as Johnny Cage completely neglecting Noob's zoning in this variation. His only fast projectile goes away on hit, slide doesnt hit fullscreen, you dont get a big payoff on a teleport read. I could see it being good against people with shitty/absent projectiles, but that would hardly make the variation the overall winner
We are talking about who can out lame who not who out spams who. In this mu Noob sets the pace because he can sit on a life lead and duck anything Johnny throws at him which forces Johnny to come to him. Noob does not just throw out projectiles fron fullscreen like most nrs zoners, he controls space more like Dhalsim in this game and requires more patience to make work
I think the word you're looking for is Skarlet. Dhalsim thrives on long hitbox/low hurtbox normals like she does. For the matchup, Johnny can do the same exact thing and does it better unless he does stupid shit from the first minute. I have to respect Spirit Ball in Black Sabbath because it's fast and deals hella damage - on trades it's the winner. Anyone can "out lame" with a lifelead, Jacqui can do that - touch you 2 times and just crouch full screen and FB shadow tackle. You're not gonna get the life lead as a keep away character without fullscreen pressence, you have to establish it in footsie range where Johnny shines as well. I mean, I can just do amped Forceballs from the moment the round begins - if you get hit your strategy is worthless.
Full screen is not something you need with Noob and is not a requirement for being a keep away character either. You can keep your space but still realize Noob has a sweet spot where going to far away makes him not as threatening. If all of Noobs best tools have their best range at midscreen just outside jump range then thats the range where he wants to hover. When you treat Noobs clone projectiles like buttons and not projectiles the Dhalsim analogy makes more sense because he controls space the same way
... but then I just move fullscreen and force you to make moves opening whiff punishing opportunities. I do realize what you're getting at, and that is how Seeing Double is played, but that dont change the fact that you can achieve much of the the same with Black Sabbath and still have damage. Seeing Double is hardly the better of the two. It does have better keepaway but it doesnt make up for the tools lost moving from black sabbath
But Noob does not need to commit to anything that would whiff like that. If you are walking back to create space I would walk forward and vice versa to stay in that sweet spot range. Noob is an incredibly hard character to whiff punish if they know what they are doing and him not having any gaps in his strings while Skarlet for instance is filled with them makes them a different kind of character in the end. Not saying Noob is better than Skarlet over all but he can play his own style of lame just fine and has better mids to get people off of him while still having the options to jail off both d3 and d4 which are also much better than Skarlets pokes.
Not when they have decent recovery time and the fact the teleport is a high
The teleport absolutely does keep them honest. The fact that its high with recovery keeps Noob honest. Its not suppose to be scorpion tier
I didn't say it was supposed to be scorpion tier. But the teleport is nothing for a smart player to be worried about. Any player with a decent projectile thats aware of noobs sub par projectiles can sit back and throw projectiles and bait the teleport out knowing that the teleport wont be fast enough to catch consistently if noob tries to teleport it on reaction. This forces noob to more times than not make risky reads and if you noob guesses wrong, punish.
