After CEO, I've realized throws are really killing my hype in this game.

[ogrimtitan]

I realize this is just a personal gripe, but it's something that's been bugging me for a while now and I couldn't quite pin it down. While watching CEO Top 8, though, it finally hit me: I am so sick of seeing the throw meta dominate every round. A lot of the Top 8 matches were suuuper hype and got my heart rate up, but then I found myself pulled out of it and feeling irritated, and I realized it was because I was watching the same 140 damage throw animation for the sixth or eighth or tenth time that match. Anyone else feel throws might need a bit of tweaking?

 

[M.D.]

WELCOME TO STREET FIGHTER

 

[DDustiNN]

I would just like to see the 50/50 aspect removed. Let me tech with the throw button.

Aside from that, I think throws are fine. Aren’t they just the same as they’ve always been?

 

[Circus]

Realistically, it's kind of a necessary evil if you want a game that's not based entirely on low/overhead 50/50s or crossups to open someone up.

If grabs weren't as strong as they were in both MK11, and Street Fighter 5 for that matter, turtling up would be way too strong of a strategy. Games would run down the clock regularly because playing passively would be the go-to at the highest level.

I personally really like how the game is with the grabs how they are now strategy-wise.

 

[exflyingbooty]

Unfortunately, if you nerf throws you'll actually kill a lot of characters in this game.

 

[Braindead]

I'd much prefer eating 20 throws in a match than 3 50/50s into 40% each.

 

[The Bearded Dan]

Some throws have really long animations too

 

[Badboy Takuma]

Realistically, it's kind of a necessary evil if you want a game that's not based entirely on low/overhead 50/50s or crossup to open someone up.

If grabs weren't as strong as they were in both MK11, and Street Fighter 5 for that matter, turtling up would be way too strong of a strategy. Games would run down the clock regularly because playing passively would be the go-to at the highest level.

I personally really like how the game is with the grabs how they are now strategy-wise.

nonsense dude. smh

5050 aspect must go and throw tech should be universally with the throw button.
throw tech is a side mechanic and not game defining.
as it is now, it affects the gameplay in a negative way.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I actually enjoy the throw meta a lot.
Also did you actually miss all the time those throws got full combo punished on a read? exactly... like just look at dragon vs Sonic, both landed throws but also punished them HARD. I rather have this than vortexes or stuff like that

 

[ismael4790]

Krushing blows on throws are the only aspect I think it shouldn't exist about them. And yeah, my character has 2 of them and I still can see that is nuts.

 

[Circus]

nonsense dude. smh

5050 aspect must go and throw tech should be universally with the throw button.
throw tech is a side mechanic and not game defining.
as it is now, it affects the gameplay in a negative way.
i am already about to drop the game because of this shit.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but you just have to get better at teching the throws.

If they just univerally switched the tech to just one button, I'll tell you right now that it'd be impractical to open up some players as some characters. I know for a fact that I'd benefit a ton from it considering I'm already very good at teching throws on reaction.

They'd have to both lower the tech window by a large amount AND make it one button to have it not be too easy, but again I'll say, I really don't think the way it is now is a problem at all.

Grabs only do 14% and are punished extremely hard on a read. If you force your opponent to grab more, you are setting them up for the possibility to punish them hard if you just commit to the neutral/forward-jump or neutral crouch on a read.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

let's just erase some characters while were at it too

 

[Badboy Takuma]

I actually enjoy the throw meta a lot.
Also did you actually miss all the time those throws got full combo punished on a read? exactly... like just look at dragon vs Sonic, both landed throws but also punished them HARD. I rather have this than vortexes or stuff like that

to be able to tech throws universally with the throw button instead of 5050, would not affect that meta at all.
that's the thing

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

nonsense dude. smh

5050 aspect must go and throw tech should be universally with the throw button.
throw tech is a side mechanic and not game defining.
as it is now, it affects the gameplay in a negative way.
i am already about to drop the game because of this shit.

I with many others like throws the way they are. There is a big window to tech, there are multiple counters to them so they are not true 50/50s at all only if you don't see them coming and fail to duck/D4/Walk back or Neutral jump/Crossover to bait em.
If you space yourself correctly they won't be a problem and shouldn't be getting hit by enough to lose a round.
What we are seeing in high level play where throws landing not by chance but only after the opponent was conditioned to otHer tools so that they turtles up expecting somethinf else. Even then more than half of them where teched.

There isn't anything broken about techs in MK11 its just players Luke Foxy, Sonic, Dragon, Kombat, SylverRye and Tweedy all have insane pressure and godlike reactions.

I tech every time now and when I guess wrong like when someone throws me out of the corner I still get "Escape Failed" message letting me know I was on perfect timing. I like to duck them and get DAT KB. Stops my opponent from being throw happy for sure

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

to be able to tech throws universally with the throw button instead of 5050, would not affect that meta at all.
that's the thing

It would tho. As a Kitana main that’s literally my main way of opening people up. And that’s the case for a lot of characters.

 

[Badboy Takuma]

I know it's not what you want to hear, but you just have to get better at teching the throws.

If they just univerally switched the tech to just one button, I'll tell you right now that it'd be impractical to open up some players as some characters. I know for a fact that I'd benefit a ton from it considering I'm already very good at teching throws on reaction.

They'd have to both lower the tech window by a large amount AND make it one button to have it not be too easy, but again I'll say, I really don't think the way it is now is a problem at all.

Grabs only do 14% and are punished extremely hard on a read. If you force your opponent to grab more, you are setting them up for the possibility to punish them hard if you just commit to the neutral/forward-jump or neutral crouch on a read.

i dont think it would be too easy to tech throws then. i really don't think so. you know very well how good this had worked out in other games since decades.

 

[Badboy Takuma]

a lot of ppl seems to belive that if the 5050 aspect of throw tech gets removed, they will never throw an opponent again or something.

well, in my experience playing several fighting games since decades, trust me:
you guys are wrong

 

[DrFolmer]

I could see making throws easier to deal with would just emphasize turtling. I guess it's ultimately a choice between this or chip damage as a means to counter turtling

 

[Circus]

a lot of ppl seems to belive that if the 5050 aspect of throw tech gets removed, they will never throw an opponent again or something.

well, in my experience playing several fighting games since decades, trust me:
you guys are wrong

If the movement of this game was more like Street Fighter or an anime fighter, I'd totally agree with you.
For traditional 2D fighting games, smaller tech windows, teching on a read, and single button techs has been the way it's been for decades.

The movement of MK11 is a stiffer than those games though. It's more like Tekken.

What I mean by that is that in Street Fighter and some anime fighters every character could universally fake out a grab by walking forward then backwards to bait the grab animation for a whiff punish. In Tekken though, because of the stiffer movement, the grabs are balanced out by making them into HIGHs that can be teched multiple different ways depending on which grab the offender chose.

MK11 chose the same style as Tekken because both incorporate the ability to duck under high attacks. This already gives grabs a HUGE counter so making the grabs a bit more of a mixup if they do land makes up for them only doing only 14%.

Like I said before, if they changed it to a single button press to tech it'd be way too easy because even I already tech grabs 90% of the time, whether it's the correct direction or not.

That's because you could tech grabs on reaction 100% of the time if you practice, just like Tekken.

If they made the switch to single button teching, they'd have to lower the tech window to something smaller to compensate for it to be one button, but they'd run the possibility of grabs being teched even less and becoming even more common because techs would only be done on reads.

A smart strategy in games like Street Fighter 5 is to just eat a throw or two because they'll do significantly less damage and the tech window is smaller, making the tech more of a read and less of a reaction.

If MK11 had grab techs that were more reads than reactions, I just don't think it'd end well imo.

I really do think the way they have it right now is a fine.

 

[SaSSolino]

Throws shouldn't beat pokes and should have shorter animations.

 

[Badboy Takuma]

If the movement of this game was more like Street Fighter or an anime fighter, I'd totally agree with you.
For traditional 2D fighting games, smaller tech windows, teching on a read, and single button techs has been the way it's been for decades.

The movement of MK11 is a stiffer than those games though. It's more like Tekken.

What I mean by that is that in Street Fighter and some anime fighters every character could universally fake out a grab by walking forward then backwards to bait the grab animation for a whiff punish. In Tekken though, because of the stiffer movement, the grabs are balanced out by making them into HIGHs that can be teched multiple different ways depending on which grab the offender chose.

MK11 chose the same style as Tekken because both incorporate the ability to duck under high attacks. This already gives grabs a HUGE counter so making the grabs a bit more of a mixup if they do land makes up for them only doing only 14%.

Like I said before, if they changed it to a single button press to tech it'd be way too easy because even I already tech grabs 90% of the time, whether it's the correct direction or not.

That's because you could tech grabs on reaction 100% of the time if you practice, just like Tekken.

If they made the switch to single button teching, they'd have to lower the tech window to something smaller to compensate for it to be one button, but they'd run the possibility of grabs being teched even less and becoming even more common because techs would only be done on reads.

A smart strategy in games like Street Fighter 5 is to just eat a throw or two because they'll do significantly less damage and the tech window is smaller, making the tech more of a read and less of a reaction.

If MK11 had grab techs that were more reads than reactions, I just don't think it'd end well imo.

I really do think the way they have it right now is a fine.

fair points.
i mean in previous mk games such as mk9 and mkx we had the same throw tech system (which i didnt like too) but it was not such an big deal like its now.
in this game throws are definitely stronger.
that's why ppl now want an better throw tech system.
so, just saying "gitgut" is kind of lame.
we should definitely talk about how this issue could be fixed for good

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

I'm okay with the current system of throws and throw tech. I'm slowly learning to know how to tech them and I'm getting better and better at it. The thing is that throws beat pokes and I don't think it should be like that. I'm totally okay with throws breaking the animations of other basic moves and even FBs on startup but pokes should low profile throws. Throws must remain a high attack and not become mids under certain conditions.

The other thing that bugs me a bit with the current system are the throws KB and how they work (and also who has them).

Let me explain my reasoning. Some characters are very strong and they still have in their arsenal a KB throw that deals either ~300 points of damage or 200 points and damage over time. On the paper I would be okay but some character have the KB on both throws. It should be one of them but not both throws. And it is far from being unfair, Kung Lao and Raiden have both a KB only on their back throw, and it works pretty well for them. It can be a tool to force the player to make the read if the opponent will go for the KB throw or just the regular throw. Kombat did this against Semiij in the auction tournament at the Combo Breaker.

And also... Why does Kitana or Johnny, two characters that rely a lot on throws to open the opponent don't have one ? Baraka and LK already have great tools and/or insane damage and both of their throws can be KBs, but not characters designed to throw a lot ?

 

[Jynks]

I do not even understand this thread.

Dragon vs aFoxyGrandPa was hype as fuck.... Dragon tick throwing and reading throws to duck... it was as tense and as a amazing game as I have seen across any game.

That shit was lit.

 

[santanabar]

I would just like to see the 50/50 aspect removed. Let me tech with the throw button.

Aside from that, I think throws are fine. Aren’t they just the same as they’ve always been?

Not at all:

• they deal more damage (140 vs 120)
• many have kb, so even more damage
• no 50/50 (except Sonya, subzero), as long as the opponent is blocking, you are not getting a full combo. So you go for a grab
• last breath mechanic: chipping out is harder, a throw is guaranteed damage
• counter to rolls
• some throws (Geras, scorpion) leave you in front of them, they can go for pressure after
• In current state, some character with super bad mids don't really have any other reliable tool in close range

 

[colby4898]

I've thought this from day 1 honestly. Throws are so strong in this game because of the lack of 50 50s. It's how to open up your opponent whose blocking a lot. Because of that throws where always gonna be strong.

Why make them stronger by making them 140 damage, crush for 300 plus, and make them a 50 50. One of the reasons I've barely even played the game.