Wu Shi Legend, better than expected?

[Kindred]

So I picked up Luahn Quan Liu Kang a while back because I needed a good pressure character.
But I've been having difficulty getting in on some zoners and characters that control space really well. So I switched to the Wu Shi Legend variation and I got to say, i feel it is better than LQ in many MUs. The fear of the teleport really keeps ppl on edge. Yes the overhead and low are punishable but it feels like the pushback the low provides makes it harder to punish for a lot of the cast. It also shuts down zoning very well and the damage buff you get is a great addition.

The loss of the stance isnt that big of a deal IMO, since it is more a gimmick and it's punishable.
The loss of the low fireball and parry (especially the parry) kinda suck but really they are part of his F4/F43 pressure so what I do, if someone likes to press buttons after my F43, is to throw a fireball (or amplify it if Im not sure they will press a button or not).
If the opponent has the tendency to poke after F43, then a quick crouch block after the string is all you need to maintain your turn.
So yes, the pressure loses a bit of steam but I honestly dont feel it's that deficient. Mainly because you still have a lot of great tools with 12, B1, B124, etc...

A terrible MU though is when facing another Liu Kang that's using the LQ variation. Because then your anti-zoning teleport is rarely used and his pressure is better than yours.

Anybody else played around with the variation? What are your thoughts?

 

[OutworldKeith]

So I picked up Luahn Quan Liu Kang a while back because I needed a good pressure character.
But I've been having difficulty getting in on some zoners and characters that control space really well. So I switched to the Wu Shi Legend variation and I got to say, i feel it is better than LQ in many MUs. The fear of the teleport really keeps ppl on edge. Yes the overhead and low are punishable but it feels like the pushback the low provides makes it harder to punish for a lot of the cast. It also shuts down zoning very well and the damage buff you get is a great addition.

The loss of the stance isnt that big of a deal IMO, since it is more a gimmick and it's punishable.
The loss of the low fireball and parry (especially the parry) kinda suck but really they are part of his F4/F43 pressure so what I do, if someone likes to press buttons after my F43, is to throw a fireball (or amplify it if Im not sure they will press a button or not).
If the opponent has the tendency to poke after F43, then a quick crouch block after the string is all you need to maintain your turn.
So yes, the pressure loses a bit of steam but I honestly dont feel it's that deficient. Mainly because you still have a lot of great tools with 12, B1, B124, etc...

A terrible MU though is when facing another Liu Kang that's using the LQ variation. Because then your anti-zoning teleport is rarely used and his pressure is better than yours.

Anybody else played around with the variation? What are your thoughts?

You gotta have good fundamentals to get around zoning with LHQ. Basically using movement effectively, neutral crouching fireballs, etc.

I suppose WSL is better against zoning because of the port. I don’t see why it wouldn’t. I’ll try it against Sonya today.

 

[Kindred]

You gotta have good fundamentals to get around zoning with LHQ. Basically using movement effectively, neutral crouching fireballs, etc.

I suppose WSL is better against zoning because of the port. I don’t see why it wouldn’t. I’ll try it against Sonya today.

Yea but it's an uphill b attle even if you have the fundamentals. It's a lot of patience and when you get near them, if they have strings with range, like skarlet, thats another hurdle to cross. Not impossible for sure, but needlessly difficult when WSL removes all this hardship

 

[Marinjuana]

I don't know a ton about this variation but I know that Raijen's Quick Charge/Discharge is a fantastic counter for F43. Wu Shi can't stay safe after F43 if Raiden has the Quick Charge buff, you would have to do an unsafe special to avoid getting punished by Discharge.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

I didn't spend a lot of time against that in the lab but his teleport seemed trash back then and I could beat every option with a neutral jump, lol.

Also how do you deal with d3 on f43?

I feel like Liu Kang is one of those characters that isn't bad but he'd be more fun if he had his low fireball as a baseline move so both of his variations are fun to play and one isn't crippled.

 

[Kindred]

I don't know a ton about this variation but I know that Raijen's Quick Charge/Discharge is a fantastic counter for F43. Wu Shi can't stay safe after F43 if Raiden has the Quick Charge buff, you would have to do an unsafe special to avoid getting punished by Discharge.

Amplified Fireball is pretty safe at -4 plus the pushback. Would that work you think?

I didn't spend a lot of time against that in the lab but his teleport seemed trash back then and I could beat every option with a neutral jump, lol.

Yea the good thing is that it is very fast so as long as you arent predictable or abusive in its usage, it should work. Like at one point, I had a habit of getting the drangon buff and immediately teleport....needless to say, I stopped doing that very quickly lol

Also how do you deal with d3 on f43?

Moments like these I wish I had the low fireball lol
But really it's mainly reads and I have 2 ways to deal with it depending on the scenario:

1. Ppl know that the window between F43 and F43U4 is very small so they typically poke ASAP. So after the F43, if I feel they will go for it, I crouch block for a split second and continue with my F4 pressure. If the block catches their D3, it's back to my turn and if they dont poke, Im back to my pressure
2. They catch on to my split second block so they try to modify their timing. When that happens, I stop at F4 and do another F4 and continue my pressure. They are primed to poke so after a single F4, many still poke but since their timing is off, the following F4 catches them.

Is it more complicated than a low fireball, yes lol
But a price Im willing to pay to stop zoners, get a buff and keep ppl on their toes with a 50/50 teleport.

 

[asmith]

I could beat every option with a neutral jump

That is true. Even his teleport-overhead doesn't hit when the opponent is jumping. You might think you would go for the High option and that doesn't work either. If you go for the high, it doesn't hit the jumping NOR the crouching opponents. I don't know why Liu Kang hit boxes has to whiff so much. Same thing in MKX which has led me to lean to the idea that they do it on purpose.

WSL variation is good but it could be better. Apart from the whiff issues above, it has a useless db2 projectile absorb which I find it extremely useless:

• it can't deal with amplified double projectiles.
• A simple ducking is a better option to deal with 90% projectiles of this game.
• No tiny damage buff, no projectile reflect.
• If you successfully absorb a projectile, it does NOTHING in your favor.

Stuff like this makes me REALLY want to have custom variations enabled. I would switch db2 with db1 low fireball. Simple and effective.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Amplified Fireball is pretty safe at -4 plus the pushback. Would that work you think?



Yea the good thing is that it is very fast so as long as you arent predictable or abusive in its usage, it should work. Like at one point, I had a habit of getting the drangon buff and immediately teleport....needless to say, I stopped doing that very quickly lol


Moments like these I wish I had the low fireball lol
But really it's mainly reads and I have 2 ways to deal with it depending on the scenario:

1. Ppl know that the window between F43 and F43U4 is very small so they typically poke ASAP. So after the F43, if I feel they will go for it, I crouch block for a split second and continue with my F4 pressure. If the block catches their D3, it's back to my turn and if they dont poke, Im back to my pressure
2. They catch on to my split second block so they try to modify their timing. When that happens, I stop at F4 and do another F4 and continue my pressure. They are primed to poke so after a single F4, many still poke but since their timing is off, the following F4 catches them.

Is it more complicated than a low fireball, yes lol
But a price Im willing to pay to stop zoners, get a buff and keep ppl on their toes with a 50/50 teleport.

I gotta say your WSL Liu Kang was pretty solid. You use both very well but I think I hate dealing with the buff and TP even more than Parry/LowFB.
You had good pressure and stagger. I do think the counter I could do is mix up D3/s1 starter which could blow up your counter.
Easier said than done and you could adjust from there but that's why I'm suggesting mixing up D3 and starter and occasionally doing D3 throw.
Well I guess Shang is the exception having such good zoning, footsie and amazing adv on D3.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

That is true. Even his teleport-overhead doesn't hit when the opponent is jumping. You might think you would go for the High option and that doesn't work either. If you go for the high, it doesn't hit the jumping NOR the crouching opponents. I don't know why Liu Kang hit boxes has to whiff so much. Same thing in MKX which has led me to lean to the idea that they do it on purpose.

WSL variation is good but it could be better. Apart from the whiff issues above, it has a useless db2 projectile absorb which I find it extremely useless:

• it can't deal with amplified double projectiles.
• A simple ducking is a better option to deal with 90% projectiles of this game.
• No tiny damage buff, no projectile reflect.
• If you successfully absorb a projectile, it does NOTHING in your favor.

Stuff like this makes me REALLY want to have custom variations enabled. I would switch db2 with db1 low fireball. Simple and effective.

I thought his TP was unreactable? Is it more than 20f startup? I'd say it would need to be 23 or more frames(think Scorpion)

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

So I picked up Luahn Quan Liu Kang a while back because I needed a good pressure character.
But I've been having difficulty getting in on some zoners and characters that control space really well. So I switched to the Wu Shi Legend variation and I got to say, i feel it is better than LQ in many MUs. The fear of the teleport really keeps ppl on edge. Yes the overhead and low are punishable but it feels like the pushback the low provides makes it harder to punish for a lot of the cast. It also shuts down zoning very well and the damage buff you get is a great addition.

The loss of the stance isnt that big of a deal IMO, since it is more a gimmick and it's punishable.
The loss of the low fireball and parry (especially the parry) kinda suck but really they are part of his F4/F43 pressure so what I do, if someone likes to press buttons after my F43, is to throw a fireball (or amplify it if Im not sure they will press a button or not).
If the opponent has the tendency to poke after F43, then a quick crouch block after the string is all you need to maintain your turn.
So yes, the pressure loses a bit of steam but I honestly dont feel it's that deficient. Mainly because you still have a lot of great tools with 12, B1, B124, etc...

A terrible MU though is when facing another Liu Kang that's using the LQ variation. Because then your anti-zoning teleport is rarely used and his pressure is better than yours.

Anybody else played around with the variation? What are your thoughts?

Ok I'm going to pick up liu Kang for a few matchups. I'm like you I like WSL more than LQ I honestly don't feel I need low fireball or parry to be effective with him and the damage buff + port is an added bonus. How long does the WSL fire buff last and how many ports can he do before its up. I feel I'll need to get the timing down to be effective with him.

 

[Kindred]

@asmith
Yea the Projectile Absorb is BEYOND useless. That's my main pet peeve. As for the teleport being countered by a jump, that would only happen if someone hard reads your teleport. But on reaction? Nobody is reacting to that, especially with the constant threat of a fireball or flying kick. So if someone teleports predictably, jumping works for sure. But if someone thinks Im going to TP and jumps, before they land I can react and TP to catch them.

@LawAbidingCitizen
To specify, I only like WSL more than LQ in certain matches. I think overall, LQ is a bit better. But in some MUs, I think WSL gets the advantage.
indeed, the D3 is the best counter since I dont have a low fireball. That's where I would use my strat I mentioned above (the quick crouch block). As for S1/grab, that's also good counter but at least my standing fireball can stop the opponent from doing that. Like you said, you can find ways to stop my pressure, but then Ill adjust, then you'll have to adjust, then Ill have to adjust to you and so the cosmic dance of MK continues lol

The buff that allows you to TP lasts for like 7 sec. I will typically try not to always TP when I have the buff to avoid having patterns but the threat of the TP works wonders to keep ppl on their toes lol

 

[OutworldKeith]

That is true. Even his teleport-overhead doesn't hit when the opponent is jumping. You might think you would go for the High option and that doesn't work either. If you go for the high, it doesn't hit the jumping NOR the crouching opponents. I don't know why Liu Kang hit boxes has to whiff so much. Same thing in MKX which has led me to lean to the idea that they do it on purpose.

WSL variation is good but it could be better. Apart from the whiff issues above, it has a useless db2 projectile absorb which I find it extremely useless:

• it can't deal with amplified double projectiles.
• A simple ducking is a better option to deal with 90% projectiles of this game.
• No tiny damage buff, no projectile reflect.
• If you successfully absorb a projectile, it does NOTHING in your favor.

Stuff like this makes me REALLY want to have custom variations enabled. I would switch db2 with db1 low fireball. Simple and effective.

If you activate flame buff db2 reflects a fireball back automatically. It’s pretty good too.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Got some WSL practice in. Absolutely love this variation vs Sonya. You can make her waste meter with energy parry, or you can just TP lol. Don’t mind the extra damage either.

 

[Dreamcatcher]

This variation is the most underrated in the game, imo. That teleport can completely change the game, depending on the MU.

 

[OutworldKeith]

This variation is the most underrated in the game, imo. That teleport can completely change the game, depending on the MU.

Its a very good anti zone variation and the zone heavy characters steamroll a lot of the cast lol.

Jade is still a pain if she has glow active.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I may not have been using WSL Kang right but I used it vs my bro @PreNerf_ and it does seem like it countered Shangs Amazing zoning. It can put them in fear similar to Scorpion TP but 16-18% instead i
of 30% per TP (during combo).

 

[NickDaGreek1983]

I use both variations and find that people are just not used to the idea of Liu teleporting so ,in time , WSL won't be that much of a big deal. Except for zoners of course.
If NRS changes the projectile absorb to sth else, it would be a start .
I find that Liu's best custom variation would be LQ but trade shaolin stance with shaolin vanish.

 

[Kindred]

Its a very good anti zone variation and the zone heavy characters steamroll a lot of the cast lol.

Jade is still a pain if she has glow active.

But if you have TP, I dont think her glow matters
Although, the glow can be used to force you to TP so if they read it, they can be ready to counter. Still a 50/50 though.
There is also a the flying kick which can be a good if they jump expecting a TP.

 

[OutworldKeith]

But if you have TP, I dont think her glow matters
Although, the glow can be used to force you to TP so if they read it, they can be ready to counter. Still a 50/50 though.
There is also a the flying kick which can be a good if they jump expecting a TP.

I used to using Fly Kick over Low Spark. He still handles Jade pretty well because he doesn’t have to deal with Air Glaive.

 

[Kindred]

I use both variations and find that people are just not used to the idea of Liu teleporting so ,in time , WSL won't be that much of a big deal. Except for zoners of course.
If NRS changes the projectile absorb to sth else, it would be a start .
I find that Liu's best custom variation would be LQ but trade shaolin stance with shaolin vanish.

I really think that this variation should only be used against zoners or characters who dont fair well under pressure. Against those who have a strong pressure game and want to be in your face, then maybe LQ might be the way for the versatility of the parry and low fireball

 

[Parasurama]

I used WSL a bit and I must say... I like it.
It may have better match ups in general but I do miss the threat of the low fireball and parry. I wish the energy parry was more useful. If ppl respect tele threat you can walk in easier.

 

[greeneless]

I used WSL a bit and I must say... I like it.
It may have better match ups in general but I do miss the threat of the low fireball and parry. I wish the energy parry was more useful. If ppl respect tele threat you can walk in easier.

I had a feeling Enery Parry wasn't totally useless so I labbed with it a bit today... You can counter Sonya's amplified second ring toss hit, probably Baraka's amplified spark as well. Might only be good for those two matches if you're confident in your inputs, but can also swallow Kung Lao hat gimmicks if someone is tryna yolo you. Does not work on Cage pressure as far as I can tell.

edit for cage -- maybe if you get a reversal?

 

[Kindred]

I had a feeling Enery Parry wasn't totally useless so I labbed with it a bit today... You can counter Sonya's amplified second ring toss hit, probably Baraka's amplified spark as well. Might only be good for those two matches if you're confident in your inputs, but can also swallow Kung Lao hat gimmicks if someone is tryna yolo you. Does not work on Cage pressure as far as I can tell.

edit for cage -- maybe if you get a reversal?

It's cool but I wonder how worth it would it be in a game. The timing seems VERY tight and you have to be ready for it. Is it worth it to avoid the chip? Other than the chip, there is the pushback but since you have a teleport, keeping you away is only temporary.

I guess the only useful scenario I can think of for the Energy Parry is in a situation where you are almost dead and can't afford to take the chip.
Not gonna lie though, if I see someone about to die and pull that move in your video while getting closer, that would be sick af

 

[greeneless]

It's cool but I wonder how worth it would it be in a game. The timing seems VERY tight and you have to be ready for it. Is it worth it to avoid the chip? Other than the chip, there is the pushback but since you have a teleport, keeping you away is only temporary.

I guess the only useful scenario I can think of for the Energy Parry is in a situation where you are almost dead and can't afford to take the chip.
Not gonna lie though, if I see someone about to die and pull that move in your video while getting closer, that would be sick af

Not massively risky if the KB is burned already from Sonya but still probably not worth it unless you know you're going to get chipped out. Counterpoint to myself though, my inputs are not really on point compared to top players, I think people with more experience than myself could potentially pull it off consistently offline

 

[MKF30]

I personally enjoyed it since day one, you can really catch people off with the teleport but be sure to do it from a far or after a knockdown that gives you room to do it. That and it buffs him for a little while which always helps. I only wish he could alter the direction of it like Quan Chi in MK 9. If he could do that man forget about it lol