Wu Shi Legend, better than expected?

[MURK]

I was the teleport would allow us to combo off of each option instead of just the high and I wish we could continue a combo after the buff.

Example such as b12 buff f43 bicycle

 

[asddgd]

Never labbed against it, had to fight it in KL. I had no idea he even had that shizz

 

[Kindred]

I was the teleport would allow us to combo off of each option instead of just the high and I wish we could continue a combo after the buff.

Example such as b12 buff f43 bicycle

I can understand why you cant combo after a teleport though. That thing is fast af and it would become a pure 50/50 that leads to damage

Doing the buff midcombo though would be amazing

 

[just_2swift]

Any match footage of this variation?

 

[Kindred]

Any match footage of this variation?

Working on a compilation, will post soon

 

[RAYBAANN]

Any match footage of this variation?

 

[Lone]

Up for running a set on PSN? I’ve been messing with WSL lately but still not sold on it, maybe you can show me its potential.

I’m US though so the connection won’t be perfect if we do/can play I imagine.

 

[Shania Twain]

did they change all the variation names? I thought this name variation was the same person when playing KL.

 

[RAYBAANN]

Up for running a set on PSN? I’ve been messing with WSL lately but still not sold on it, maybe you can show me its potential.

I’m US though so the connection won’t be perfect if we do/can play I imagine.

We can try of course, my PSN is: RAYBAANN, I could play this weekend maybe, too much job I'm from Argentina, excuse my english lol

 

[Lone]

We can try of course, my PSN is: RAYBAANN, I could play this weekend maybe, too much job I'm from Argentina, excuse my english lol

Sounds good, I’ll send a friend request right now.

 

[TotteryManx]

I started playing this variation a little while back and I'm starting to believe its his best variation of the 2. The only thing of value lost is low fireball, which is punishable if you cancel a string with it. I'd much rather take the projectile parry, damage buff, and teleport to help deal with zoning characters. You still have the good strings. 12, b124, and F4 shenanigans. You also have good krushing blows.

 

[Kindred]

I started playing this variation a little while back and I'm starting to believe its his best variation of the 2. The only thing of value lost is low fireball, which is punishable if you cancel a string with it. I'd much rather take the projectile parry, damage buff, and teleport to help deal with zoning characters. You still have the good strings. 12, b124, and F4 shenanigans. You also have good krushing blows.

I really think it depends on the MU and your opponent. Liu Kang is mainly a rushdown character I find and removing many of his rushdown options really restricts his pressure. Opponents become less scared of the F4 and F43 pressure because there is no parry, no low fireball and no overhead/low/grab stance cancel to worry about. Sure you have 12 but even that string whiffs on many crouch blocking opponents.
Yes the teleport can deal with zoning but its also punishable so it remains a risk.
Your pressure with WSL is harder since you have to try to anticipate when the opponent will poke, after F4 or F43.
The projectile pary is also pretty useless since you can just neutral duck most projectiles.

With that being said, i still love the variation and I think you're right to some extent. It completely wrecks havoc on anybody trying to zone you.

 

[TotteryManx]

I really think it depends on the MU and your opponent. Liu Kang is mainly a rushdown character I find and removing many of his rushdown options really restricts his pressure. Opponents become less scared of the F4 and F43 pressure because there is no parry, no low fireball and no overhead/low/grab stance cancel to worry about. Sure you have 12 but even that string whiffs on many crouch blocking opponents.
Yes the teleport can deal with zoning but its also punishable so it remains a risk.
Your pressure with WSL is harder since you have to try to anticipate when the opponent will poke, after F4 or F43.
The projectile pary is also pretty useless since you can just neutral duck most projectiles.

With that being said, i still love the variation and I think you're right to some extent. It completely wrecks havoc on anybody trying to zone you.

The stance you're talking about is not very good at all and can be interrupted when cancelled. It's not guaranteed. When I play against other Kangs I don't even use d1. I use d3 to poke their parries and such. Only thing that is good is low fireball, but that is even combo punishable. He can still rushdown in the wu-shi variation. Throwing is big with him. F4, throw. F43 throw. B1 throw, etc. I personally like it better and am excelling with this variation.

If you watch someone like Rye play Kang, he doesn't use a lot of that stuff as much because it leads to blowups.

 

[Parasurama]

The stance you're talking about is not very good at all and can be interrupted when cancelled. It's not guaranteed. When I play against other Kangs I don't even use d1. I use d3 to poke their parries and such. Only thing that is good is low fireball, but that is even combo punishable. He can still rushdown in the wu-shi variation. Throwing is big with him. F4, throw. F43 throw. B1 throw, etc. I personally like it better and am excelling with this variation.

If you watch someone like Rye play Kang, he doesn't use a lot of that stuff as much because it leads to blowups.

Shaolin stance and the Wu Shi buff are useful during f3333 and b124.

What do you use after f43 or you just block?
Because 6fr d1's could always win. And in general options are minimal.

 

[Kindred]

The stance you're talking about is not very good at all and can be interrupted when cancelled. It's not guaranteed. When I play against other Kangs I don't even use d1. I use d3 to poke their parries and such. Only thing that is good is low fireball, but that is even combo punishable. He can still rushdown in the wu-shi variation. Throwing is big with him. F4, throw. F43 throw. B1 throw, etc. I personally like it better and am excelling with this variation.

If you watch someone like Rye play Kang, he doesn't use a lot of that stuff as much because it leads to blowups.

Stance is a gimmick but its useful in some situations. Either way, every thing can be countered/punished, that's not the point.

My point is, if you D3 or D1 or start a fast string after F43 (for example), then that means you read that your opponent was going to stop at F43. You have to read whether Liu Kang is going to do F4 then something else (stance, parry, etc) or F43 then something else, or 12 then something else, etc.
What Im saying is that with WSL, your something else is very limited.

Heres a situation as an example:
I know (predict) my opponent is going to attack me as soon as my F43 is done.

• As WSL, my only safe option is to block. If he pokes (D1 or D3), I can take back my turn. But if he goes for a string, I lost my turn.
• As LQ, I can parry (if he has been going for D1 or fast strings) or low fireball to cover everything including D3 (+7 on hit) and I keep my turn.

You can D3 as much as you want, but if I pick up on your pattern, my tools with LQ can deal with that new pattern you've developed to counter my parries. With WSL, if I see that pattern of D3-ing emerge, I have no choice but to block and go for an attack while hoping you didnt cancel into a fast special after your D3.

 

[DeftMonk]

So I picked up Luahn Quan Liu Kang a while back because I needed a good pressure character.
But I've been having difficulty getting in on some zoners and characters that control space really well. So I switched to the Wu Shi Legend variation and I got to say, i feel it is better than LQ in many MUs. The fear of the teleport really keeps ppl on edge. Yes the overhead and low are punishable but it feels like the pushback the low provides makes it harder to punish for a lot of the cast. It also shuts down zoning very well and the damage buff you get is a great addition.

The loss of the stance isnt that big of a deal IMO, since it is more a gimmick and it's punishable.
The loss of the low fireball and parry (especially the parry) kinda suck but really they are part of his F4/F43 pressure so what I do, if someone likes to press buttons after my F43, is to throw a fireball (or amplify it if Im not sure they will press a button or not).
If the opponent has the tendency to poke after F43, then a quick crouch block after the string is all you need to maintain your turn.
So yes, the pressure loses a bit of steam but I honestly dont feel it's that deficient. Mainly because you still have a lot of great tools with 12, B1, B124, etc...

A terrible MU though is when facing another Liu Kang that's using the LQ variation. Because then your anti-zoning teleport is rarely used and his pressure is better than yours.

Anybody else played around with the variation? What are your thoughts?

I used this variation a looot like pretty much all I used for kombat league. And to be honest it was fun as hell but almost all of the things I did (not fireball reflects)was hella dumb and only did because I know opponent wasn't used to it. Stuff like f3 cancelled into energy parry followed by f3333 or b2 into energy parry f3333 (both work pretty damn good especially the latter since it looks like your already using the nunchucks by the time people realize u just did the parry and try to poke your already inputting f333/f4). The teleport sucks ass imo. It's hella reactable number 1, if you do it after a block string they can poke you during startup frames. Honestly I wish he didn't even have that shit so people would throw more projectiles at me after im buffed with the damage buff. All in all the other variation is waaaaaay better and the main reasons for me are: If you go for f333 and they block it what do you do? Also the lack of the parry/low fireball is crap in some matchups. That being said I still use wu shi legend and do bunch of bogus shit and its fun lol.

 

[greeneless]

You can D3 as much as you want, but if I pick up on your pattern, my tools with LQ can deal with that new pattern you've developed to counter my parries. With WSL, if I see that pattern of D3-ing emerge, I have no choice but to block and go for an attack while hoping you didnt cancel into a fast special after your D3.

LQ def has more options, but I feel like WSL definitely has to play different. You have to make your opponent start disrespecting the 3 in F4,3 by stopping after F4. Its -7 sure same as F4,3 but it’s incredibly risky for the opponent to try and yolo take a turn here. IMO your pressure with WSL is NOT F4,3, it's just F4. ...note that I am not necesasrily saying this is better, it may in fact be worse, it is just different. I actual like WSL against Erron Black in particular right now

That being said I still use wu shi legend and do bunch of bogus shit and its fun lol.

F3 xx Gifts Buff might be kinda bogus. I have also tried F4 cancel after first hit into gifts (like -22 lol), and that works but is bogus... However B1,2,(4)xx Gifts buff is somewhat less bogus (cancel after second hit). You've got to be a madman to try to interrupt this and its the best place WSL can cancel out of on block (only -9). Using this can turn B1 into an auto shimmy that can end in a cancel or a bicycle kick, unfortunately the cancel won't be confirmable tho.

 

[Parasurama]

LQ def has more options, but I feel like WSL definitely has to play different. You have to make your opponent start disrespecting the 3 in F4,3 by stopping after F4. Its -7 sure same as F4,3 but it’s incredibly risky for the opponent to try and yolo take a turn here. IMO your pressure with WSL is NOT F4,3, it's just F4. ...note that I am not necesasrily saying this is better, it may in fact be worse, it is just different. I actual like WSL against Erron Black in particular right now



F3 xx Gifts Buff might be kinda bogus. I have also tried F4 cancel after first hit into gifts (like -22 lol), and that works but is bogus... However B1,2,(4)xx Gifts buff is somewhat less bogus (cancel after second hit). You've got to be a madman to try to interrupt this and its the best place WSL can cancel out of on block (only -9). Using this can turn B1 into an auto shimmy that can end in a cancel or a bicycle kick, unfortunately the cancel won't be confirmable tho.

The b124 string is confirmable but dfficult. Ninjakilla does it if you watch.

 

[Kindred]

LQ def has more options, but I feel like WSL definitely has to play different. You have to make your opponent start disrespecting the 3 in F4,3 by stopping after F4. Its -7 sure same as F4,3 but it’s incredibly risky for the opponent to try and yolo take a turn here. IMO your pressure with WSL is NOT F4,3, it's just F4. ...note that I am not necesasrily saying this is better, it may in fact be worse, it is just different. I actual like WSL against Erron Black in particular right now

Yea like you said WSL has to play differently because it doesnt have the variety of tools LQ does. The way WSL plays is more difficult.

Ill go further here and say that conditioning your opponent to do X, punishing with Y and attacking with Z are all part of the game but dont really make a character good or bad. Its the options you have in each that matters.
You can condition me to block after F4 but eventually, when I see that you are stopping at F4 and not continuing to F43, I'll start attacking after F4 again. LQ allows you to keep your turn on a correct read, while this isnt the case with WSL. That's why I find, like you said LQ to be better.

With that being said, I find great success using WSL vs Shang Tsung or skarlett because that teleport is a beauty lol

 

[greeneless]

Does Wu Shi actually counter Cetrion a bit? Anyone know?

If you have Dragon Gifts active you can react to projectiles to punish and get in with the teleport, you can also react to boulder and energy parry it on reaction so you don't have to deal with the frame trap or jump/no jump mixup from full screen

Lack of low fireball could be a problem though, I love the ex for the knockdown advantage, and I noticed Ninjakilla pasting BigD with it in Cetrion vs LQ Liu

 

[Kindred]

Does Wu Shi actually counter Cetrion a bit? Anyone know?

If you have Dragon Gifts active you can react to projectiles to punish and get in with the teleport, you can also react to boulder and energy parry it on reaction so you don't have to deal with the frame trap or jump/no jump mixup from full screen

Lack of low fireball could be a problem though, I love the ex for the knockdown advantage, and I noticed Ninjakilla pasting BigD with it in Cetrion vs LQ Liu

It is legit a perfect counter IMO.
LQ vs Cetrion, you're kinda fucked because her zoning is insane and she has a teleport too (bc logic)
But you shut down all zoning with WSL and she is forced to fight you head on. Even if you dont have as many options as LQ up close (no parry or low fireball), you can still more than deal with her.

If the MU is 6-4 in her favor when you play LQ, it reverses if you play WSL IMO

 

[AK Harold]

I think people are ruling out a couple f43 options that can be considered. Stopping at f4 is nothing unique and used in both variations.

Use f43 to flawless bait. In general, when you are in a negative situation, these are prime flawless opportunities. F43 dragon kick. It's just as yolo as low fireball minus the amp mix up but it's what you have. Hope it helps.

I just think it's a very matchup dependent variation and should be used as such. Especially with the tracking issues of the teleport.

 

[Kindred]

I think people are ruling out a couple f43 options that can be considered. Stopping at f4 is nothing unique and used in both variations. Use f43 to flawless bait. In general, when you are in a negative situation, these are prime flawless opportunities. F43 dragon kick. It's just as yolo as low fireball minus the amp mix up but it's what you have. Hope it helps.

I dont think anybody suggested stopping at F4 constantly.
Personally I mix it up with F4, F43, F4-Grab, F43-Grab, F4~Fireball(amp), F43~Fireball(amp) or F4/F43 into another string if the opponent is passively blocking.
And as you suggested, Flawless bait is another great option.

All those options are readily available in LQ too so they arent really unique. The tools you get with WSL dont allow for unique pressure really so you work with what you got.

I just think it's a very matchup dependent variation and should be used as such. Especially with the tracking issues of the teleport.

100%
I personally love using WSL against a zoning heavy Sub-Zero player. Seeing their sadness when they realize they can't just throw iceballs until one hits is like watching this:

 

[AK Harold]

Yeah I was just stating f4 staggers are not unique not that they aren't good.

I just can't get into Liu Kang this time around. I was all in on him in mkx but I just don't like his play style right now. He is so good though, maybe I'll come back when I've lost enough lol.

 

[Parasurama]

LQ def has more options, but I feel like WSL definitely has to play different. You have to make your opponent start disrespecting the 3 in F4,3 by stopping after F4. Its -7 sure same as F4,3 but it’s incredibly risky for the opponent to try and yolo take a turn here. IMO your pressure with WSL is NOT F4,3, it's just F4. ...note that I am not necesasrily saying this is better, it may in fact be worse, it is just different. I actual like WSL against Erron Black in particular right now



F3 xx Gifts Buff might be kinda bogus. I have also tried F4 cancel after first hit into gifts (like -22 lol), and that works but is bogus... However B1,2,(4)xx Gifts buff is somewhat less bogus (cancel after second hit). You've got to be a madman to try to interrupt this and its the best place WSL can cancel out of on block (only -9). Using this can turn B1 into an auto shimmy that can end in a cancel or a bicycle kick, unfortunately the cancel won't be confirmable tho.

Why Erron?