Jade is really good

[Arqwart]

Nooo give me Deadly Assassin! Sure it has like 20f gaps on half the strings but screw you nerds and your flawless blocks. I want staggers that reach from midscreen and are so flashy and long theyll make Kung Lao jealous.

1v1 me noob Delia's Dance vs Deadly Assassin I'll show u how to really b4 the floor with someone.

(In all seriousness Geoffmeister just posted in Jade GD about b1 tech so maybe it's not all that bad)

Bruh. I'll break your ankles with my broom sweep. Don't @ me.

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

A lot of complaints about Jade are like "but once people figure her out...'
Bruh, the game is one month old. There's a lot of shit to perfect and figure out.
I'd just rather wait to see if it actually becomes a problem before knee jerk buffing shit and getting an overloaded mess of a character.
A lot of people have been arguing here, and rightfully so, that nerfing stuff too early is a bad idea. Well, buffing solid characters too early is not the best of ideas too, especially when those characters already perform solidly at a high level.
There are characters that are not performing at a high level at all. If you're gonna buff anything this early in the game, buff those.

 

[GLoRToR]

A lot of complaints about Jade are like "but once people figure her out...'
Bruh, the game is one month old. There's a lot of shit to perfect and figure out.
I'd just rather wait to see if it actually becomes a problem before knee jerk buffing shit and getting an overloaded mess of a character.
A lot of people have been arguing here, and rightfully so, that nerfing stuff too early is a bad idea. Well, buffing solid characters too early is not the best of ideas too, especially when those characters already perform solidly at a high level.
There are characters that are not performing at a high level at all. If you're gonna buff anything this early in the game, buff those.

This is a fair point which is why I preface all my comments about Jade with "NRS knows what they're doing" and "I trust them to fix issues" and "game balance is not one character getting changes". But as much as my haters would love it, I'm not going to stop calling out issues with her, still.

 

[BuffRaiden]

This is a fair point which is why I preface all my comments about Jade with "NRS knows what they're doing" and "I trust them to fix issues" and "game balance is not one character getting changes". But as much as my haters would love it, I'm not going to stop calling out issues with her, still.

I see you complaining about Jade non stop. Half the cast can't realistically fight this bitch. Just stop. This character is twice as lame as scorpion is and you still complain non stop. Her issue is that she exists and plays and game all unto her own. A zoner with projectile immunity. Just throw her out and your problems are solved.

 

[seanpon]

I see you complaining about Jade non stop. Half the cast can't realistically fight this bitch. Just stop. This character is twice as lame as scorpion is and you still complain non stop. Her issue is that she exists and plays and game all unto her own. A zoner with projectile immunity. Just throw her out and your problems are solved.

hmmm... not true at all, half the cast has a teleport or so to get in on her... and many others have projectiles immune to glow like Sonya drone drop or frost mortars. She doesn't play the game all unto her own. Plus, once you walk her to a corner, she has no teleport like Cetrion or skarlet to get out. She also does very minimal damage when she does touch you so getting hit by her isn't as threatining as say getting hit with a noob saibot or scorpion BnB. Scorpion literally has the best move in the game with his teleport and nothing that balances him out, he's literally powerful on all fronts... Jade does the least damage out of the cast

 

[BuffRaiden]

hmmm... not true at all, half the cast has a teleport or so to get in on her... and many others have projectiles immune to glow like Sonya drone drop or frost mortars. She doesn't play the game all unto her own. Plus, once you walk her to a corner, she has no teleport like Cetrion or skarlet to get out. She also does very minimal damage when she does touch you so getting hit by her isn't as threatining as say getting hit with a noob saibot or scorpion BnB. Scorpion literally has the best move in the game with his teleport and nothing that balances him out, he's literally powerful on all fronts... Jade does the least damage out of the cast

Scorpion's buttons are not that good. His fastest mid is 13 frames. Watch Combo Breaker. Not single person used b14. It was all 112 or f3 stagger. Reborn is S tier with cancel mind games. Searing rage is high mid at best. And the other half of the cast than can't get in on Jade (Cassie, Sonya, Liu Kang in stance variation) all lose. The match up is completely dependent on whether you can teleport because nitro kick and b2 keep you from walking forward.

I'll playing scorpion any day over this lame character. Jump back mb air glaves. That's the whole game plan.

 

[Espio]

Jade has been mostly fine, most people just wanted her to play a certain way and since she doesn't play that way it irks them. She's literally the Doomsday equivalent of a lame character. She's good at what she does and really basic and like Doomsday generally doesn't do much damage.

A lot of people want to use all her staff strings all the time, stuff like that is mostly for checking people or whiff punishing a wake up or out ranging people because while others have twelve frame mids with the range her ten frame staff attack can really swat people like Baraka away like a fly with optimal spacing. Anyone that complains about Back 3,4,3 doesn't understand the utility and how much better of a staggerable mid it is than a lot of mids considering all she can do at a distance too.

People are writing off her forward 3,4,3 string too, it's great when you have to play up close since it is safe at all points, starts as a low and is great for stagger pressure. Combine that with her short hop overhead, throws and back 3 and you will be cooking. Forward 3 on hit is plus 16 so the opponent has to guess if you're gonna go for strike or throw.


Forward 2 string is just to make people block high so you can wiggle stick them in the mouth and of course if you happen to get a combo, even better.


This is basically the core:
Back 3,4,3,4
Back 2
Down 4
Air glaive
Edenian Spark
Forward 3,4,3
2,1,2
Down 2
Sweep
Shadow kick

You're good to go more or less.



I'm content with her, people have been overthinking her. I don't think she needs to change. If people prefer a different play style, you might just have to play multiple characters to get your fix, but she really is a well designed character right now. 16Bit has insisted for quite some time that Jade is good as well and reiterated that at Combo Breaker while on commentary and that's probably because he embraced the lame. Her walk speed is fantastic and back dash cancel with her for supreme lolz.

 

[GLoRToR]

I see you complaining about Jade non stop.

So maybe there is a reason for it.

Half the cast can't realistically fight this bitch.

This number is factually incorrect. Anyone who does better damage than she does and has a way to advance on her either via F4 or a teleport is not a winning matchup for her, it's even at best like vs Jax whom she can successfully run away from but if she gets caught she's in the blender with F3.

This character is twice as lame as scorpion is

Again factually incorrect. Jade requires excellent fundamentals to play correctly or you get blown the hell up with her even by the "half of the roster" (probably more like 5 characters) that don't have a get-in tool that they can use as a potent countermeasure or the punishment damage to convert into and crack her open.
Scorpion can fully avoid the majority of the game with an i12 teleport that he can OS into scenarios where his risk/reward turns to reward/reward.

Her issue is that she exists and plays and game all unto her own. A zoner with projectile immunity. Just throw her out and your problems are solved.

Aren't you hostile for a new face.
Welcome to TYM.
Be prepared to learn new things.

 

[GLoRToR]

Jade has been mostly fine, most people just wanted her to play a certain way and since she doesn't play that way it irks them. She's literally the Doomsday equivalent of a lame character. She's good at what she does and really basic and like Doomsday generally doesn't do much damage.

A lot of people want to use all her staff strings all the time, stuff like that is mostly for checking people or whiff punishing a wake up or out ranging people because while others have twelve frame mids with the range her ten frame staff attack can really swat people like Baraka away like a fly with optimal spacing. Anyone that complains about Back 3,4,3 doesn't understand the utility and how much better of a staggerable mid it is than a lot of mids considering all she can do at a distance too.

People are writing off her forward 3,4,3 string too, it's great when you have to play up close since it is safe at all points, starts as a low and is great for stagger pressure. Combine that with her short hop overhead, throws and back 3 and you will be cooking. Forward 3 on hit is plus 16 so the opponent has to guess if you're gonna go for strike or throw.


Forward 2 string is just to make people block high so you can wiggle stick them in the mouth and of course if you happen to get a combo, even better.


This is basically the core:
Back 3,4,3,4
Back 2
Down 4
Air glaive
Edenian Spark
Forward 3,4,3
2,1,2
Down 2
Sweep
Shadow kick

You're good to go more or less.



I'm content with her, people have been overthinking her. I don't think she needs to change. If people prefer a different play style, you might just have to play multiple characters to get your fix, but she really is a well designed character right now. 16Bit has insisted for quite some time that Jade is good as well and reiterated that at Combo Breaker while on commentary and that's probably because he embraced the lame. Her walk speed is fantastic and back dash cancel with her for supreme lolz.

Excellent writeup, thanks, 3SPO <3
Pretty much how I play her and I mostly agree except for the no changes part.
We'll see what NRS thinks anyway.

 

[S+ Main]

Give Jade a cmd grab and she is good to go.

 

[Espio]

Excellent writeup, thanks, 3SPO <3
Pretty much how I play her and I mostly agree except for the no changes part.
We'll see what NRS thinks anyway.

I mean, we can ask for changes, but is it due to necessity or preference? Cause I have things I would prefer for her, but not because she needs it to compete per se.

I'd also be on the look out for the potential future variations that might have something you're looking for that's fun like additional staff strings paired with Delia's dance or some other cool combination that might let you play how you really want to with her.

 

[GLoRToR]

I mean, we can ask for changes, but is it due to necessity or preference? Cause I have things I would prefer for her, but not because she needs it to compete per se.

I'd also be on the look out for the potential future variations that might have something you're looking for that's fun like additional staff strings paired with Delia's dance or some other cool combination that might let you play how you really want to with her.

I see and accept your point as always. My opinion differs on changes, but that's not something you and I need to debate, we were always good at agreeing to disagree when it came to that.
As for future variations, good point again. I'm not sure that's coming so soon just yet. We'll see.

 

[mercureXI]

I see you complaining about Jade non stop. Half the cast can't realistically fight this bitch. Just stop. This character is twice as lame as scorpion is and you still complain non stop. Her issue is that she exists and plays and game all unto her own. A zoner with projectile immunity. Just throw her out and your problems are solved.

And the other half of the cast than can't get in on Jade (Cassie, Sonya, Liu Kang in stance variation) all lose. The match up is completely dependent on whether you can teleport because nitro kick and b2 keep you from walking forward.

I'll playing scorpion any day over this lame character. Jump back mb air glaves. That's the whole game plan.

Half of the cast ?

Mortal Kombat 11 Characters

• Baraka : hard to get in
• Cetrion : no problem (teleport)
• D’Vorah : no problem (teleport)
• Geras : no problem (sand traps win trades)
• Kabal : very little problem (better pokes / better projectiles / can punish any neutral glow attempt with nomad dash, and Jade can no longer zone when he gets FB)
• Kano : no problem (air ball)
• Kitana : no problem (teleport)
• Kollector : no problem (teleport)
• Kung Lao : no problem (teleport and air movement)
• Liu Kang : no problem (teleport and yolo kick punish any rang attempt on reaction since it hits Jade while the rang is behind her)
• Raiden : no problem (teleport)
• Scorpion : no problem at all (teleport)
• Shao Kahn : hard to get in though that's debatable considering his advancing strings and specials at mid range
• Sonya Blade : no problem (drone drop beats glow)
• Skarlet : no problem (tentacles beat glow)
• Sub-Zero : no problem (slide beats rangs, and can go under air rang for punish while Jade lands)
• Jade : mirror
• Cassie Cage : hard to get in (though her air FB can lock out any zoning attempt)
• Jacqui Briggs : v2 makes it easier (damage over time projectiles), though it's harder than teleport users
• Jax Briggs : hard to get in (though you better be careful since Jax buffs up when he absorbs projectiles, and his FB prevents any projectile at mid range)
• Erron Black : doesn't have to get in (he cancels projectiles)
• Kotal Kahn : hard to get in
• Johnny Cage : hard to get in
• Noob Saibot : no problem (teleport and air movement)
• Frost : no problem (grenades beat glow)

That's 6 characters with real problems against Jade's glow + projectiles gameplan. Out of 25 ...

Her nitro kick and b2 don't prevent you from walking in, actually, you want Jade to rely on those moves :

• nitro kick is unsafe on block / duckable
• b2 has mad recovery on whiff if you duck it

One good read (both moves just need you to duck) on any of those moves means you land a free d2 KB for 30%+ damage.
A good Jade will use d4 a lot more ...


About Jade being lamer than Scorpion : I suppose you were joking ...

 

[AK Harold]

If you are going to count variations that people don't use then count the other variations as well, so in fact half can't according to your own method. Moreso it is over half then by your standards.

 

[AK Harold]

Also by your understanding of how "weak" her back 2 and nitro kick are in neutral. That means every teleport character you just listed is at a disadvantage as well since all of those teleports are highly punishable on block.

 

[mercureXI]

If you are going to count variations that people don't use then count the other variations as well, so in fact half can't according to your own method. Moreso it is over half then by your standards.

Nonsense.

As if I counted MANY variations that people don't use ... The only rare one is Jacqui v2, and that's debatable considering it's better against Jade's zoning variation overall (from my experience, considering I play against Jacqui v2 very often)

Where are all those variations people "don't use" exactly in my post ?

---

Also by your understanding of how "weak" her back 2 and nitro kick are in neutral. That means every teleport character you just listed is at a disadvantage as well since all of those teleports are highly punishable on block.

It's not about being "weak" (did you see me use that word ? nope), it's about RaidenDude whining about Jade using those tools to prevent him from walking in, and me giving him a way to capitalize on that, showing the Jade player that he can punish that for a LOT of damage if they rely on that heavily.

Any competent Jade player knows that relying on b2 to poke is very dangerous, and honestly, except for punishing jumpins at long range or go through projectiles with glow up, NO ONE really uses shadow kick as a "way to prevent people from walking in" (mid range jumps can be punished harder with other methods).


Also : can't compare a neutral poke with a teleport, since you can teleport on reaction to shut down zoning, no need to be proactive with it at all ...
And you use it only to whiff punish (and not preemptively), no reason for RaidenDude to be shut down by b2 while walking in ...


If you're gonna try and tear apart my post, at least do it right ...

 

[AK Harold]

Ditto, I said if you are going to cherry pick variations include all of them to show a proper number.

Shadow kick is a deterrent for walking, it is it's main purpose in her kit besides swapping sides on combo.

B2 combined with walk speed whiff punishes consistently.

 

[GLoRToR]

B2 is pretty shit. Wish it was a mid at least.

 

[seanpon]

B2 is pretty shit. Wish it was a mid at least.

B2 being a mid would be pretty broke actually, B2 is great for what it is, its a long reaching whiff punisher, its always a threat and something to look out for when trying to close the distance against Jade. Its also good for catching jump ins from a distance.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

B2 is pretty shit. Wish it was a mid at least.

I'd rather they fix standing 3 before B2.

 

[mercureXI]

Ditto, I said if you are going to cherry pick variations include all of them to show a proper number.

Shadow kick is a deterrent for walking, it is it's main purpose in her kit besides swapping sides on combo.

B2 combined with walk speed whiff punishes consistently.

You choose your variation depending on the matchup.

And 95% of the variation I mentioned are the "popular" ones, and if not, I precised it.

Didnt cherry-picked, I just went with the logical choice for that matchup; used what I expect people to use against E.Defender to maximise their chances.

Seems really dumb to use all variations condidering some will never be used (see Erron or Sonya) and people choose the variation that suits the matchup, which is the whole point of this system.

Zero point about counting useless variations, just to try and fit the point of view that RaidenDude spitted at us without anything to back it up.

---

Shadow kick used randomly during neutral hoping to catch people walking? Seems like suicide to me.

Its main use for me is split between

• punishing long range jumps over rangs
• punishing a projectile with glow on
• combo ender
• whiff punishing from range

And never said b2 doesnt have any use or can't whiff punish.
I reacted to him saying it prevents walking in, which is factually wrong.
As long as this move remains a high, you will have ways to get in (duck > d2, low profile moves, etc)

If he gets shutdown by b2 and shadow kick during neutral, it's his fault, not the character being lame...

 

[GLoRToR]

B2 being a mid would be pretty broke actually,

Like all the other long range mids that also launch or can be cancelled into a launcher and reach just as far or even further, or even have crushing blows and are also get in tools or pressure tools? Probably.
But with the current meta, b2 being a mid would just make it average.

 

[mercureXI]

I agree, with so many advancing normals that hit mid and lead to juggles, it wouldn't even be OP, since b2 leads to little damage in the end.

It would just need a slower startup to fit the fact that it's now a mid (mids being slower than highs, usually).

 

[DrFolmer]

I remember seeing a Brady video about fighting game philosophy - and he said that the most important thing is, that people will always hang themselves in most cases. So the point was you could literally just turtle to the extent, that the opponent will play super risky - which you can capitalize on.

And Jade really fits that narrative. I know she has a lot of tools you shouldn't be using as they open up punish opportunities for the opponent, but the few tools she has going for her can really enforce the approach Brady talked about. She has a handful of good moves that on the surface level arent very scary - but combined it makes for a character who is super tricky to approach, and every time you mess up (and you will) it's usually back to fullscreen and the circus starts again. And along the way you have to deal with the great reach on her normals, solid anti airs and good zoning

I do think maybe the Shadow Kick KB (maybe some others as well) could be made a little more reliable - maybe instead of connecting 2 in a row just make it work similarly to Sub's slide og Liu Kang's Bicycle Kicks. I don't think we should mess with her core toolkit as much as that could change her already solid competitive status - Krushing Blows however is the one thing that is heavily unbalanced across the character spectrum, and this is here we can bring back relevancy for certain characters.

 

[seanpon]

I agree, with so many advancing normals that hit mid and lead to juggles, it wouldn't even be OP, since b2 leads to little damage in the end.

It would just need a slower startup to fit the fact that it's now a mid (mids being slower than highs, usually).

A lot of the advancing mids put the character using them in some sort of danger because there moving along with their hurtbox, jade's hurtbox is the same and her hitbox for her back 2 extends a lot to catch anyone using their forward advancing string. back 2 isn't meant as a forward advancing mid like other characters who have them like baraka or kabal. Its mostly meant to be defensive and reactionary, to whiff punish. Changing this defensive tool to an offensive one as well isn't a good idea as long as balancing is involved.