State of the Game: From a Combo Breaker Competitor

[Jolt]

I had time to read the post and agree with most of it. As a Sonya main, I'm inclined to agree that her damage output can be a little bit much. I'd be fine with taking 5% or so off the top or making the rings a bit less powerful.

However, as you stated - If you stop letting Sonya get away with B12 staggers and punish the attempt or consistently punish b123, the matchup does change noticeably.

Her mids aren't terrible, but they definitely aren't the Jacqui 9f launch you into oblivion type.

Erron Black could use some adjustments, Geras has received a bit of a damage adjustment in the latest patch. So we'll keep looking and we'll see.

I like that so far we aren't doing kneejerk major adjustments. We can wait until the next event and see how things pan out

 

[UPR_Nova]

I don't hate anything or anyone, too much effort.
I do dislike that there are characters which can cancel their SAFE SPACING TOOL into huge damage and then clowns tell me that my character is omfg top tier amazing perfect needs no changes when her UNSAFE SPACING TOOLS lead to NOTHING XD
And then the same clown goes to play Scorpion, Sonya or Geras / considers dropping Jade.

lmfao this "community".
Don't take tym seriously, bruh.
Do work, lab characters, play who works for you.
Fuck what people think.

Jade is nowhere near a Jacqui. I play her. She excels at things but her utility is only relevant in certain matchups. If people are telling you she's busted, that's just silly.

 

[UPR_Nova]

I had time to read the post and agree with most of it. As a Sonya main, I'm inclined to agree that her damage output can be a little bit much. I'd be fine with taking 5% or so off the top or making the rings a bit less powerful.

However, as you stated - If you stop letting Sonya get away with B12 staggers and punish the attempt or consistently punish b123, the matchup does change noticeably.

Her mids aren't terrible, but they definitely aren't the Jacqui 9f launch you into oblivion type.

Erron Black could use some adjustments, Geras has received a bit of a damage adjustment in the latest patch. So we'll keep looking and we'll see.

I like that so far we aren't doing kneejerk major adjustments. We can wait until the next event and see how things pan out

I don't want anyone to die but I also want the entire cast to live. I want to see unmatched diversity. It's also difficult to know what everyone needs because it feels like only a handful of characters are showcased. Nerf/buff Illuminati lol.

 

[GLoRToR]

Jade is nowhere near a Jacqui. I play her. She excels at things but her utility is only relevant in certain matchups. If people are telling you she's busted, that's just silly.

Way I see it, some characters need curbing, and tools that aren't honest like 9f safe advancing mid combo starters and teleports that break neutral and give a free out of jail card need to take a massive hit for the sake of the game's health. I'm also more inclined to play Jade as a pressure character with an updated Vault build that fixes her hitbox issues on vault and makes her cancels worth using. Possibly even add Delia's to it. Air Glaives are a boring and weak strategy to play in a game where everyone can either teleport, ignore her glow with an immune move or just get in for free and bust her up with a 50% combo.

I don't fully agree with everything you said here but that's beside the point.
Let's hope NRS will do us all justice and the game will reach an all new high with fun and engaging gameplay.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

Way I see it, some characters need curbing, and tools that aren't honest like 9f safe advancing mid combo starters and teleports that break neutral and give a free out of jail card need to take a massive hit for the sake of the game's health. I'm also more inclined to play Jade as a pressure character with an updated Vault build that fixes her hitbox issues on vault and makes her cancels worth using. Possibly even add Delia's to it. Air Glaives are a boring and weak strategy to play in a game where everyone can either teleport, ignore her glow with an immune move or just get in for free and bust her up with a 50% combo.

I don't fully agree with everything you said here but that's beside the point.
Let's hope NRS will do us all justice and the game will reach an all new high with fun and engaging gameplay.

What exactly is wrong with a 9f mid starter?

 

[UPR_Nova]

Way I see it, some characters need curbing, and tools that aren't honest like 9f safe advancing mid combo starters and teleports that break neutral and give a free out of jail card need to take a massive hit for the sake of the game's health. I'm also more inclined to play Jade as a pressure character with an updated Vault build that fixes her hitbox issues on vault and makes her cancels worth using. Possibly even add Delia's to it. Air Glaives are a boring and weak strategy to play in a game where everyone can either teleport, ignore her glow with an immune move or just get in for free and bust her up with a 50% combo.

I don't fully agree with everything you said here but that's beside the point.
Let's hope NRS will do us all justice and the game will reach an all new high with fun and engaging gameplay.

That makes a lot of sense and I see where you're coming from now.

And I fully agree. If it gets better after Combo Breaker, we're in for a hell of a ride.

 

[GLoRToR]

What exactly is wrong with a 9f mid starter?

Nothing unless it leads to 50% damage, is safe or even + on block, and reaches all the way to China. Then everything is wrong with it.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

Nothing unless it leads to 50% damage, is safe or even + on block, and reaches all the way to China. Then everything is wrong with it.

Well there's nothing like that in the game so.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

I can agree with this. Call me crazy but I don't see these characters in the same boat as a Cyrax. I played a ton of Injustice but I don't feel like I should speak on that because I dropped it like the first year.

And I won't lie, I don't know much about the lower. I do know they need something but I won't claim to know what it is. What do you think is the key/universal separator of the killers and the less used?

There's definitely no MK9 Cyrax Kabal or Kenshi in this game. And that's a good thing. But that definitely shouldn't be the bar. But in this game, just like MK9, there's a defense of the super top tier that sounds like "If you nerf Erron Black, then he'll lose to Sonya" or like that. Like in MK9, I played Kenshi and he was broken as all hell. And everyone said nerf him. To which I said, "only if you nerf the rest of the top, because you are NOT making the Kabal matchup worse for me." And that's how I feel here. The top characters are abusive. Mainly in a combination in the ways they

1. have access to huge damage for minimal or even no resources
2. have safe launching strings starting with fast mids
3. ridiculous fatal blows (which need nerfing across the board)
4. have KB's that happen nearly every single match because of how easy they are to get

 

[Elias6999]

Well there's nothing like that in the game so.

“You are spawn of Jackson Briggs” - Ermac

 

[UPR_Nova]

There's definitely no MK9 Cyrax Kabal or Kenshi in this game. And that's a good thing. But that definitely shouldn't be the bar. But in this game, just like MK9, there's a defense of the super top tier that sounds like "If you nerf Erron Black, then he'll lose to Sonya" or like that. Like in MK9, I played Kenshi and he was broken as all hell. And everyone said nerf him. To which I said, "only if you nerf the rest of the top, because you are NOT making the Kabal matchup worse for me." And that's how I feel here. The top characters are abusive. Mainly in a combination in the ways they

1. have access to huge damage for minimal or even no resources
2. have safe launching strings starting with fast mids
3. ridiculous fatal blows (which need nerfing across the board)
4. have KB's that happen nearly every single match because of how easy they are to get

I agree with everything you said. With KBs and FBs, they need adjustments almost everywhere imo. Probably because it's the new mechanic. I guess maybe we're just in different camps? I say bring everyone up that can't hang for whatever reason. To be clear though, I see VERY reasonable adjustments being called for in regards to the best of the best and I don't mind them. I also am not in the camp of defending. Simply from what I've personally experienced, I see no reason for changes unless they are minor. To be fair though, I play Jax. It also comes full circle with the same question of "how do we want this game to play." Really interesting.

 

[-Nachtmahr-]

Unpopular opinion: START playing Grinnin' jax, then you can stop crying about zoners

 

[Jbog]

Why not buff mid and low tier characters and leave the top? Just a question?

 

[UPR_Nova]

Unpopular opinion: START playing Grinnin' jax, then you can stop crying about zoners

My opinion of GB is that if you wanna play GB, just play Geras lol. To be real though, the utility is there and very unexplored. I'll be Jax 100% soon hopefully.

 

[trufenix]

If we knee cap Geras' krushing blows, the whole game will change. I'd do that first. I don't think that's the only solution, but that's the easiest way to change things in a big way without nuking it.

After that, we should talk about D'vorah and Frost and the Kahns and all the other miserable characters before we start mucking around with the ones that work fine.

 

[UPR_Nova]

Why not buff mid and low tier characters and leave the top? Just a question?

That's what camp I'm in. I wish I could speak on more of HOW to buff the bottom but I can't.

 

[Jbog]

A few solid mids would sure help most

 

[Jbog]

And hitbox fixes

 

[Careerpancakes]

Why not buff mid and low tier characters and leave the top? Just a question?

Most of what makes the top tier good (high damage 50/50s, safe hit-confirmable combos, fuck zoning/nuetral gap closers, consistently good cancels) is incongruent with a nuetral heavy game. Using them as a baseline just gives us a less swaggy MKX.

 

[Tony at Home]

Why not buff mid and low tier characters and leave the top? Just a question?

I want my character to be fun. Have strengths and weaknesses.

Not to be a potato. Anything good enough to match something like Geras or Erron because they can ignore neutral is just not what I want more characters to become.

 

[GLoRToR]

Why not buff mid and low tier characters and leave the top? Just a question?

The reason the gaming industry prefers nerfs to buffs is called "Power Creep".
D'Vorah struggles against Geras so D'Vorah gets buffed but now Sonya struggles against D'Vorah so she gets buffed and she was already powerful so everyone who struggled against Sonya gets buffed and now D'Vorah struggles against 3 of those so she gets buffed again.

It's easier to set a margin, let's say mids are 10f, lows are 14f, overheads are 18f. They are faster if they have less range and slower if they have more.

 

[CliffP]

I had time to read the post and agree with most of it. As a Sonya main, I'm inclined to agree that her damage output can be a little bit much. I'd be fine with taking 5% or so off the top or making the rings a bit less powerful.

However, as you stated - If you stop letting Sonya get away with B12 staggers and punish the attempt or consistently punish b123, the matchup does change noticeably.

Her mids aren't terrible, but they definitely aren't the Jacqui 9f launch you into oblivion type.

Erron Black could use some adjustments, Geras has received a bit of a damage adjustment in the latest patch. So we'll keep looking and we'll see.

I like that so far we aren't doing kneejerk major adjustments. We can wait until the next event and see how things pan out

Safe to say 16 frames is where a move needs to be for a human to press square after and punish. Is it possible to see the string didn’t continue after the overhead and then punish based on those frames or is it too fast? Or is there some type of option select we can do?

 

[Jolt]

Safe to say 16 frames is where a move needs to be for a human to press square after and punish. Is it possible to see the string didn’t continue after the overhead and then punish based on those frames or is it too fast? Or is there some type of option select we can do?

Honestly, at this point I don't know if there's an OS. I haven't tried. Usually I'm the Sonya player. With b12 being -9, there isn't a whole lot of time to react with a 6f normal as is. You have a 3 frame window.

What it does instead is creates a meta. If you're punishing b12, Sonya can commit to b123 and blow you up. However, if you block b123 you can blow her up.

Punishing b12 a couple times should then make the Sonya more likely to try b123 or b12~special cancel (No safe special to cancel into)

 

[CliffP]

Honestly, at this point I don't know if there's an OS. I haven't tried. Usually I'm the Sonya player. With b12 being -9, there isn't a whole lot of time to react with a 6f normal as is. You have a 3 frame window.

What it does instead is creates a meta. If you're punishing b12, Sonya can commit to b123 and blow you up. However, if you block b123 you can blow her up.

Punishing b12 a couple times should then make the Sonya more likely to try b123 or b12~special cancel (No safe special to cancel into)

Yeah so pretty much still a mind game on top of the mix up, lol

Maybe I'll look into it tonight to verify.

Theoretically, if the cancel window for the 3 after b12 is 15 frames slower than the full recovery of b12 and there is a solid visual distinction between the stagger and the cancel into 3 as well as the recovery being over +20 with the -9 then it should be reacatable in ideal conditions.

 

[Jhob5]

Scorpion is mostly good in reborn. Searing isn't that good, the extra damage is nice but death spin is unsafe from most ranges in my expierence. I haven't seen enough high level footage of searing to know if its 100% punishable but it seems hard to punish from around max range or close to it if they don't have like a dash punch or super long mid. I hate playing searing because I have no idea how gimmicky it is.
F3 is scorpions best button. Stagger and decent hitbox and speed for the range. His 50/50 kinda sucks, the overhead is pretty slow and gets reacted to.