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Soul Calibur 6: THE SOUL STILL BURNS!

Eldagrin

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Yeah I love that with Azwel I basically play 5 different characters depending on which mode he's in, super cool.

As for Groh, I think he was super good, but the GI/RE nerfs hurt him. His synergy with those mechanics are only second to Kilik's, and unlike the latter his base kit wasn't enough to tank the blow. I still think he's good though: if you play with fundamentals his damage is pretty high, and his gimmicks are decent too.

Also I just found out that Nightmare's CE got buffed, so now each time his armor absorbs a hit the CE hits for free. The guy was like "Yeah man, now when he has a bar you can't go in stance against him". I was playing Maxi.
Also, I will say for Groh, if I'm going to play a character who relies on some gimmicky stuff and does a ton of damage, I may as well play Tira. Tira has some rough MUs but she's actually a pretty solid character now. The Tira discord is constantly putting their heads together discovering new stuff about her, Party Wolf being part of that group means we all learn a lot.

We've all been messing around with her guard crush game since that's what this meta revolves around. If Tira is in Gloomy SC or Gloomy Coda you need to watch out, if your guard is even 1% into red, she can break you with 66A+B and if it mood switches her (which it has ~85% chance to do) and she was in SC, she gets a combo that does between 91-144 damage. Jolly can also guard crush you into like 74-130 damage if she's in soul charge, and with her meterbuild buff she has a ton of meter. Also, even if she doesn't switch into gloomy to end those combos with like 50 extra damage, it still leaves her in a position where she can mix you with 66BB or 236K in Jolly SC with a chance to put her back in Gloomy.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Also, I will say for Groh, if I'm going to play a character who relies on some gimmicky stuff and does a ton of damage, I may as well play Tira. Tira has some rough MUs but she's actually a pretty solid character now. The Tira discord is constantly putting their heads together discovering new stuff about her, Party Wolf being part of that group means we all learn a lot.

We've all been messing around with her guard crush game since that's what this meta revolves around. If Tira is in Gloomy SC or Gloomy Coda you need to watch out, if your guard is even 1% into red, she can break you with 66A+B and if it mood switches her (which it has ~85% chance to do) and she was in SC, she gets a combo that does between 91-144 damage. Jolly can also guard crush you into like 74-130 damage if she's in soul charge, and with her meterbuild buff she has a ton of meter. Also, even if she doesn't switch into gloomy to end those combos with like 50 extra damage, it still leaves her in a position where she can mix you with 66BB or 236K in Jolly SC with a chance to put her back in Gloomy.
Yeah, Tira really went from zero to hero with these patches. I still think Kilik and Mina are very powerful though, even more so than her, so I'm not sure why Party Wolf decided to switch character.
 

Eldagrin

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Yeah, Tira really went from zero to hero with these patches. I still think Kilik and Mina are very powerful though, even more so than her, so I'm not sure why Party Wolf decided to switch character.
He doesn't think Kilik is very good in this meta (I have no idea why), and he thinks Mi-Na is braindead and boring, and he thinks Tira is fun so he switched to her for the current meta. I will say for Tira, specifically Gloomy, I think her soul charge is one of the stronger ones in the game, an untechable throw that heals her, a ton of break attacks, great frames, great guard damage, massive damage. Jolly also gets a safe 50/50 that has a high chance of putting her in Gloomy and a -2 mid hori step kill.
 

Eldagrin

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@SaSSolino I’ll give him props for not even playing the character when he says Kilik is bad and he doesn’t think he can win tournaments with him. Most NRS characters are like “My top tier character is trash XD” and then they play it non stop and win with it and are like ITS STILL A BAD CHARACTER, PW just thinks the meta doesn’t work for Kilik.

Linkorz and some of the others seem to think Kilik is good but they also trust PW’s word on the character. I think Hayate is the only high level Kilik player I see still using him right now. I think Xephukai was playing Kilik for a bit before going back to Sophitia after he dropped Xianghua because of the GI changes. Part of it is that X and Kilik don’t do very well into buffed Sieg, Mi-Na, or Ivy. I don’t play X seriously enough to know her MUs well like I know Tira and Raphael’s, so i cant really speak from experience there.
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
So, for anyone who is still going to be playing SC6 in any way after MK11 drops and who might be interested in Raphael/Tira, I thought I'd post a little bit to highlight how ridiculous Raphael's wall damage can be off anything, especially if you get a favorable angle and Tira's post GC damage (and she can GC pretty damn easily with GS+ or soul charge).

Raphael i12 wall splat damage:

3B W!:

66A+B W!:

SE B 66A+B W!:

66A+B W! with no angle:


As for Tira's crazy guard crush damage:
Jolly, which works off every single guard crush move she has in jolly and is 88 damage with a free mix-up with no switch:


Gloomy:


The above combo actually does 148 damage if you don't swap into gloomy after the headbutt at the end, because 66A+B is 12 chip damage, 156 if you do switch and get another 66B.

Gloomy has a ton of good guard crush moves, especially in soul charge/coda but you should definitely be doing 66A+B in those states because the move has 0 guesswork involved if you know they aren't going to step (stepping gloomy is risky because of AKA and 3A CH fishing) 66A+B is 20% guard damage, so it will ALWAYS crush if they are in red and if they don't block it it's 64 damage and good oki.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
So, for anyone who is still going to be playing SC6 in any way after MK11 drops and who might be interested in Raphael/Tira, I thought I'd post a little bit to highlight how ridiculous Raphael's wall damage can be off anything, especially if you get a favorable angle and Tira's post GC damage (and she can GC pretty damn easily with GS+ or soul charge).

Raphael i12 wall splat damage:

3B W!:

66A+B W!:

SE B 66A+B W!:

66A+B W! with no angle:


As for Tira's crazy guard crush damage:
Jolly, which works off every single guard crush move she has in jolly and is 88 damage with a free mix-up with no switch:


Gloomy:


The above combo actually does 148 damage if you don't swap into gloomy after the headbutt at the end, because 66A+B is 12 chip damage, 156 if you do switch and get another 66B.

Gloomy has a ton of good guard crush moves, especially in soul charge/coda but you should definitely be doing 66A+B in those states because the move has 0 guesswork involved if you know they aren't going to step (stepping gloomy is risky because of AKA and 3A CH fishing) 66A+B is 20% guard damage, so it will ALWAYS crush if they are in red and if they don't block it it's 64 damage and good oki.
Jesus Christ that Tira damage is absurd! I don't know her enough to start screaming tier placements, but that damage + guard break potential is top tier material free, and I know her frames are good too. I'm starting to see why Party Wolf tier whored to her, although I'm still far more scared of Kilik for now.

Tira is a from zero to hero if I've ever seen one.
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
Jesus Christ that Tira damage is absurd! I don't know her enough to start screaming tier placements, but that damage + guard break potential is top tier material free, and I know her frames are good too. I'm starting to see why Party Wolf tier whored to her, although I'm still far more scared of Kilik for now.

Tira is a from zero to hero if I've ever seen one.
Tira’s main problem is her inconsistency, she CAN do that much damage, but the real question is will she be able to when it matters? She also gets bodied by Sophie, Ivy, Mi-Na, Kilik, and Sieg which can be a limiting factor in tournaments. I would say “it’s locked behind her soul charge” but her meter build is nuts now. Her biggest weakness imo is that her lows are pretty terrible and she has bad frame data in Jolly. Still a high tier in terms of tools, although based off MUs Tira is probably upper mid right now.
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
Jesus Christ that Tira damage is absurd! I don't know her enough to start screaming tier placements, but that damage + guard break potential is top tier material free, and I know her frames are good too. I'm starting to see why Party Wolf tier whored to her, although I'm still far more scared of Kilik for now.

Tira is a from zero to hero if I've ever seen one.
In response to the frame data thing Sas, her Gloomy frame data is okay and her GS+ frame data is pretty godlike, but her Jolly frame data sucks, don't get frauded out by it.

Her AA is i14 and 0 on hit, her fastest buttons after it are her i12 special low 2A, her i12 high K, and her i12 high 4K, so it gets her nothing, she basically loses a turn if she hits you with AA. Her Gloomy AA is i12 and +6! on hit though, so that one is really good. Her JS 6AA is -14 on block, it's her high into mid hori with no pushback, so punish that if she does it, the low is -8. Her 3A is TERRIBLE, it's -10 on HIT and -18 on block, the B follow up is not a NH combo, not CH confirmable, -6 on hit and -22 on block. Her 1A low is i30 and -14, nothing more to say, it's a shit lag low, her 4A (the move where she spins you around) is high, steppable, AND -16 on block. Her 9A is -14 as well but it's a fast jump attack.

Her 6B and extensions are pretty godlike, not gonna lie, but it's one of her 2 really good buttons in Jolly. 6BK is high at the end and -8 so don't let her try to steal a turn after. 6BB is obviously steppable but only -2, but it has a different GI timing from 6BK and 6BK catches steps so you can't OS the string. Her 3B is -13 (pretty good imo) but iirc Azwel's Almighty stance CE is i13, no? It should punish her 3B so bear that in mind if it ever comes up in a clutch situation. Her 1B is her only good low since it's i16 but it's also -16 on block AND -4 on hit. Her 4B strings and extensions suck ass, you can step in between every single hit of 4BBB/4BBK or the hit between the A and ender in 4BAB/4BAK; the K is -16 and the B is -14. Her WR B is -17 on block as well so you can interrupt between the B and K (the K is suicide on block though). Her 9B (the godlike low crush) is -16 on block. Her 22_88B is only -2 and it's +10 on hit so that's a great button.

Her 1K is her other low and it's i28 and -18, again a shit lag low. Her 236K is i28 and -16 and steppable. Her Jolly WR K is i12 but -14, bear that in mind. Her Jolly stance 2A+B is an i30 low that is -14. Her 4A+B used to be -10 but I don't know what it is now, it's her sidestep move that builds a ton of meter on hit, it's also -2 on hit. Her BT B+K B is -18 so punish that HARD. Her 44A+BAAA and all forms of it are -18 (her ballerina spin that builds a ton of meter), but she can choose when to end it which makes it kind of weird to punish, if she does all the spins be ready to punish. Her 66A+B (the running hoop spin that LHs and is a hori mid) is -12 so punish that, lots of Tiras like to use it.

So yeah, that is the comprehensive "Tira's Jolly stance is fake af and has bad frame data and relies super heavily on pokes/throws and soul charge" guide.
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
@SaSSolino You know, it sucks that there is no crossplay for SC6, because I don't know any Azwel players on console and I want to play a set against an Azwel. Everyone on the Tira discord says it's a MU that's probably in his favor if both people have MU knowledge (like 6-4 though) and most people on Raph's discord say the MU is in Raph's favor. And you know how ranked Azwels are, super scrubby.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
@SaSSolino You know, it sucks that there is no crossplay for SC6, because I don't know any Azwel players on console and I want to play a set against an Azwel. Everyone on the Tira discord says it's a MU that's probably in his favor if both people have MU knowledge (like 6-4 though) and most people on Raph's discord say the MU is in Raph's favor. And you know how ranked Azwels are, super scrubby.
I just wanna play TYM people! Also I'm not sure how Azwel beats Tira, but to be honest I don't know her that much.
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
I just wanna play TYM people! Also I'm not sure how Azwel beats Tira, but to be honest I don't know her that much.
It's mostly that he outranges her from what I've seen, she also can't do to him what she can do to other characters she wants to come into her range (aka taunt) because he can just toss axes at her

Edit: I also want to play TYM people, I mostly play people from discord but it's not the same
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
You know, after playing some SC6 again alongside MK11, I would honestly like to think that SC6 has improved my neutral game for MK11. The game has a pretty heavy neutral/footsies aspect to it that every character has to play to some degree. It’s kind of interesting how things you practice in a 3D game can transfer over to a 2D.
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
@SaSSolino Not sure if you’re keeping up with the game still since MK11 is so new but there was some really good Azwel gameplay at April Annihilation.

24:25, 1:20:45, and 1:54:10
 
I read over the character CREATION and thought I saw new characters lol damn. I got the update, I'm pretty sure its just wedding equipment. I mean new content is always cool so
The update gets more colors to characters and gives everyone wedding equipment. The DLC with equipment comes out on the 16th.