Which of these characters would you play if they were buffed?

[CrimsonShadow]

I understand people are wanting to wait for huge updates but every month that goes by is another tournament that Kotal and others won't be used. Small buffs isn't a bad thing and won't destroy the game. To many act like buffs are unchanging and they act like it's a no go back situation when it's not. Buffs can be minor and be slightly adjusted a few weeks later.

Kotal and Shao need buffs, D'Vorah is definitely in need of adjustments and in my opinion Kung Lao has some serious problems, everything's unsafe and gimicky so I think he needs help to for many reasons.
I'd love to see other characters like Kotal, Shao Kahn, Kung Lao, Raiden and D'Vorah make top 8s but I fear they won't until they get some QoL adjustments.
If we wait months for buffs then all these characters sit out many tournaments and that's not fair. No one wants to be tier whores and want to use thier favs.
By all means let the massive balance update come later on but bring on small tweaks and QOL for the bottom half and see where it goes then adjust what is truly broke.

Kotal was used in MKX when he was definitely not top tier. Alucard placed basically using fighting game fundamentals, and Pnut eventually even beat Sonic Fox. Raptor placed with vanilla Takeda before he was buffed.

Likewise Green Arrow won majors in Injustice. Based on character love and again, fundamentals.

This isn't to downplay the struggle of using certain characters.. But the point is that to say a character won't be used, especially early in a game's life, is a pretty bold statement. It's often in the first few months when people do unexpected things with characters that have mostly been overlooked.

Especially when people write characters off and don't even bother to learn their matchups, that sometimes works in loyalists' favor early on.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Kotal was used in MKX when he was definitely not top tier. Alucard placed basically using fighting game fundamentals, and Pnut eventually even beat Sonic Fox. Raptor placed with vanilla Takeda before he was buffed.

Likewise Green Arrow won majors in Injustice. Based on character love and again, fundamentals.

This isn't to downplay the struggle of using certain characters.. But the point is that to say a character won't be used, especially early in a game's life, is a pretty bold statement. It's often in the first few months when people do unexpected things with characters that have mostly been overlooked.

Especially when people write characters off and don't even bother to learn their matchups, that sometimes works in loyalists' favor early on.

I actually agree to some degree but those players you mentioned stated they want Kotal fixed and have him in bottom tier. There is even a low tier battle between HoneyBee(D'Vorah) and LordPnut(Kotal) on HoneyBee's channel.

I just feel like all we will see it's Geras, Erron, Jax, Sub, Scorpion, Cassie, Kitana and Jacqui in top 8s. Yes players have beat the odds but it's not common.
One of the hypest matches in MK9 was Sheeva vs REO's Kabal and I loved it. Playerslike that have my respect but it's disheartening to see certain players not make top because they are in love with thier characters.

One of the players I have mad respect for is one if our very own mods ScarsUnseen after Cyrax Patch 3-29 which gutted my favorite character and she stuck with him out if live and went toe to toe with Sektor in many sets holding her own. That's character love to use a character you know has a disadvantage in ranked/tournament and never waver your resolve.

 

[Gruntypants]

I'm not sure why Jacqui Cage or Liu Kang are on here so I voted for them LOL. They are good characters..
Now Raiden on the other hand...

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I just feel like all we will see it's Geras, Erron, Jax, Sub, Scorpion, Cassie, Kitana and Jacqui in top 8s. Yes players have beat the odds but it's not common.
One of the hypest matches in MK9 was Sheeva vs REO's Kabal and I loved it. Playerslike that have my respect but it's disheartening to see certain players not make top because they are in love with thier characters.

One of the players I have mad respect for is one if our very own mods ScarsUnseen after Cyrax Patch 3-29 which gutted my favorite character and she stuck with him out if live and went toe to toe with Sektor in many sets holding her own. That's character love to use a character you know has a disadvantage in ranked/tournament and never waver your resolve.

We just had a tournament with Baraka, Cetrion, etc in Top 8.

Meanwhile at Texas Showdown they had Skarlet, Kabal, Noob in Top 8.

This literally never happens. It takes months for the meta to mature and for people to properly learn matchups. And then immediately after the game gets patched, etc.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

We just had a tournament with Baraka, Cetrion, etc in Top 8.

Meanwhile at Texas Showdown they had Skarlet, Kabal, Noob in Top 8.

This literally never happens. It takes months for the meta to mature and for people to properly learn matchups. And then immediately after the game gets patched, etc.

Of course but all those listed are A Tier and above.
What I'm looking for is Kung Lao, Kotal Kahn, Shao Kahn, D'Vorah that I think won't place top 8s. Just my prediction based off toolkits, top players opinions and tier placements and what many competitive players have said about the characters chances.
I know Sonic and other top players won't risk using bottom tier characters when they can choose characters that do everything they do but better. Erron Black and Geras are good examples being jack of all trades and Masters in one area.

Kotals toolkit is very limited. I don't see anything being discovered. His Special moves are very poorly designed. He has no real mix and sucks up close. The best thing I can see him offsetting close up weaknesses is to use Parry/Command Grab but the parry buff only last 3 seconds and gets beat by strings and only works for single hits. His command grab gets a 9 second buff that only lasts for 9 seconds and requires you to start combo immediately to capitalize but there is also drawbacks to that as well it gives up position and switches sides removing corner carry and forces combos to be 22% range. I could go on but I feel others have what he has but better in every way. Same with his counter zoning, it would be great if sunlight was less recovery but he eats combo for putting it down and God Ray is inferior to base sunlight and all are death on recovery which is a commonality with his specials.
I just don't see it. Even LordPnut says Kotal is trash.

I'm sure some bad ass will place top 16 sometime but it's out of his favor in my opinion.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Of course but all those listed are A Tier and above.
What I'm looking for is Kung Lao, Kotal Kahn, Shao Kahn, D'Vorah that I think won't place top 8s. Just my prediction based off toolkits, top players opinions and tier placements and what many competitive players have said about the characters chances.
I know Sonic and other top players won't risk using bottom tier characters when they can choose characters that do everything they do but better. Erron Black and Geras are good examples being jack of all trades and Masters in one area.

I mean, that still leaves like 20 characters possible to make Top 8. They're outside of that 8 you listed. My point was just that early tournaments are never locked to whatever people think the meta/tier list is month one. No one knows matchups and there are always plenty of surprises.

It gets harder down the road when people know every MU in detail, but it usually takes some months to get there. And then usually a patch happens anyway.

 

[SwiftEagle]

I voted for Shao Khan.

1. I played only 4 Shao Khan players, but I absolutely demolished each one.
2. His taunts are way too long.

I might try him anyway, but I don't know. He's easily one of the worst characters in the game right now.

 

[Kal]

I picked my mains before the game even launched, and no tier list will change that to be honest. I pick playstyles, not power. They could nerf Cassie and Noob into the ground and I will still play them if their playstyle has not changed. At the same time, the opposite is true too. Geras for example has been claimed as one of the top characters in the game, but there is no way in hell I would ever play him. His style just doesn't match my enjoyment.

 

[Scheme Kahn't]

NRS do not "buff" their characters -- they NERF them... And even when they don't need nerfing! In fact, it's those that don't need the nerf dildo rammed up their faecal fjord, who get the worst of their extreme rectal prejudice.

In other words, this thread's sentiments are moot.

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

Lui Kang ?

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

Cage no doubt. He’s so broken you can’t play him. All your tools are literally: throws, walk back b34, d4, forceball. You can’t use anything else simply because it whiffs or terrible on block.

 

[scrillantro]

Lui Kang ?

Lol I see it spelled like that all the time. Whenever I see it I like to think of him as comedian Lui C.Kang

 

[EdenianWarrior]

Wait...Kitana needs buffs? Wut..

Yes

 

[NothingPersonal]

Yes

She's fine.

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

Lol I see it spelled like that all the time. Whenever I see it I like to think of him as comedian Lui C.Kang

The one that got caught masturbating in public? Thanks but no

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

She's fine.

Agreed

 

[CrimsonShadow]

NRS do not "buff" their characters -- they NERF them...

Wut

Kenshi, Takeda, Supergirl, Mileena, Ermac, Ferra Torr, Ivy, Jacqui, Jason, Kitana...

What?

 

[Amneoss]

I don't care about tiers. I play who I want. I'm not a pro so my record means nothing.

 

[Edmund]

I actually prefer bottom of the barrel. Take something ugly and make it shine.

But the problem for me is more so play style than “buffs.” I just simply don’t enjoy how some characters are played; but if the buffs sort of change the character in that regard then maybe.

For example, if they gave scorpion meter less combo extension with spear (obviously not happening and SHOULDN’T) i’d Play him because I love doing long and crazy combos.

Or, if they gave someone like Cetrion lots of more “in-your-face” related buffs.

 

[EdenianWarrior]

She's fine.

Ehhhhhh... I disagree, but she doesn’t feel like Kitana and that’s my main issue with her. She’s been altered too much.

 

[NothingPersonal]

Ehhhhhh... I disagree, but she doesn’t feel like Kitana and that’s my main issue with her. She’s been altered too much.

True. She's not MK9/MKX Kitana for sure, but she's a solid footsie character this time. Has good damage, has good space control, has some zoning. But definitely not the 40% air-to-air one touch character. Boo hoo

 

[Eddy Wang]

I'm pretty happy with where Skarlet is currently, the results she get its exactly what you put out despite some things i don't agree with in general, but overal i think she is a very well rounded character.

Only few gripes are her B2 Krushing Blow, which isn't really scary for how slow it is, a good way to make it scary is removing the damage boost on KB and give her a vertical launch for 1 per match overhead combo.

the other thing its her bf3 amp which has tons of recovery, reducing that recovery on hit would make the move actually usable, right now its the most useless universal special she has, very short range, very slow start-up, punishable eitherway and not really rewarding on hit either even with amplification.

other than that, 2f reduction on her parry startup would be actually helpful, but that's a nitpick


I wanted to play KL but i just can't feel him in this game at all, maybe in time, but i think Jacqui and Sonya are pretty fun.

 

[chrisofrays]

Was so hyped for johnny cage but dont like how he feels. Im hoping they give him a better mid and sort out his hitbox issues.

 

[colby4898]

The question should be: which character would you play if customs were allowed in ranked

 

[Scheme Kahn't]

Wut
Kenshi, Takeda, Supergirl, Mileena, Ermac, Ferra Torr, Ivy, Jacqui, Jason, Kitana...
What?

You'd have to specify what you mean (*don't actually do that, I'm just sayin'), and my point was that NRS always errs on the side of extreme caution / boring gameplay -- instead of allowing characters to be themselves. Case in point: the "play like bosses" Kahns in MK11 (both being junk tier, because neither actually "play like bosses" -- more like slightly larger normies).

It, again, comes down to them designing their games around the fantastical notion of "balance", instead of realising their creative vision and THEN balancing the game post-release. That's why they're continually making their games more and more cookie-cutter, with each successive patch; rather than expanding on the base product and tapping the vast potential therein. Case in point: freeing up customisation to 5~6 slots in casual modes, in order to nut out what customisation could work for tournaments.

Fundamentally, all NRS need to do is to clearly demarcate the "KASUAL" and "TOURNAMENT" builds of their games (as they kind of already do, only not nearly defined clearly enough), so that they can then use the former as a kind of focus group setting for what the latter balanced version of the game should look like. That way, people who want to play the "imbalanced" but true to creative vision game, have their mode; and those who want the Karate Fighting Man A vs. Karate Fighting Man B "balance", have theirs. Suffice to say, millions of players acting as testers for balancing will yield millions of man-hours than any developer can ever deliver through their own resources.

Nerfing shit by knee-jerk default is literally he worst thing they can do to a fighting game, and especially in a game framework already so replete with cookie-cutter gameplay elements, shared character abilities and universal mechanics... Anyone who's witnessed a few of the competitive scene matches to date, will not be able to deny this fact.