Execution Barriers. Should they be patched?

[scrubjesus111]

should ‘artificial’ execution barriers be removed? ex: erron black’s 21212 and jacqui’s uppercut thing. So I legit CANNOT do cancels off of erron’s 21212 string consistently online. I’d love to play the character but that string is central to his game and I can't do it. Jackqui also has something that is arbitrarily hard to do imo. My question is: should NRS patch these to make them easier to do? Or do they add some positives to the game design?

 

[Corruption100]

i dont know. i feel like execution is easy as is in this game. game's still new maybe we should revisit this in a few weeks? took me a damn weak to learn quad grab tick throws but I know that was just my fingers being shit. Another week or so and Ill be able to do them at will in matches

 

[Invincibeast]

Eh some maybe. EB's string has a shortcut input for it that makes it WAY easier, and Jacqui's f2,2 just takes practice.
I do think that ridiculous strings that dont come out no matter how fast or varied you input them should be more forgiving on the timing (Sonya has one, and Kitana has a few off the top of my head)

 

[scrubjesus111]

i dont know. i feel like execution is easy as is in this game. game's still new maybe we should revisit this in a few weeks? took me a damn weak to learn quad grab tick throws but I know that was just my fingers being shit. Another week or so and Ill be able to do them at will in matches

Yeah I agree most execution in this game is easy. I was referring to specific strings that the developers purposefully made difficult like the examples I gave (tbh though those are the only examples I can think of)

 

[kabelfritz]

what i find a bit annoying is that you have to learn the knockdown times for every single move in the game to consistently wakeup roll. i feel like there should be a bigger buffer window.

 

[scrubjesus111]

Eh some maybe. EB's string has a shortcut input for it that makes it WAY easier, and Jacqui's f2,2 just takes practice.
I do think that ridiculous strings that dont come out no matter how fast or varied you input them should be more forgiving on the timing (Sonya has one, and Kitana has a few off the top of my head)

EB has the shortcut 2111+2 but it hasn't made it sufficiently easier so I can cancel it into his bf4 bnb online.

 

[rainuS]

Just practice thats all, its no that hard in comparison to mkx, I can do Jacqui one flawlessly anytime.
I wish the execution in MK11 was harder but it is what it is.

 

[scrubjesus111]

Just practice thats all, its no that hard in comparison to mkx, I can do Jacqui one flawlessly anytime.
I wish the execution in MK11 was harder but it is what it is.

lol why would you want execution to be harder?? I guess that's exactly what I'm asking: is there a good reason for a developer to artificially raise the difficulty of some inputs? Or isn't it always better to reduce the execution barrier as much as possible? (without affecting the depth of the core game design, I'm not asking for Smash or Rising Thunder here).

 

[Cheesus]

@scrubjesus111 EB's b222 and 21212 are easy to cancel, if you try and you failed, thats because you input one too many button presses. if theres an extra 1 or 2, the window for canceling is closed, its not a timing thing, its a weird system design that doesnt allow overlapping buttons like other FG's

 

[Auron]

I mean this in the nicest way possible but coming from Tekken and having played Kazuya and Heihachi for 2 years I have to ask, what execution?

The game is pretty easy in that regard, the dial is a bit quirky if you're used to other games but that's pretty much it.

I played a bit of mk10 and the easiest of run cancels was much harder than anything I've seem in 11 so far.

 

[Gruntypants]

The execution for special cancelling that is easy dude. Just hit the button for the special right before or as soon as the hit lands. It's not hard, just level up.

 

[scrubjesus111]

You are all missing the question... just going to start a new thread I guess and reword it

 

[STB Bodam]

I do hate the timing of some of the strings in the game. I wish they had that little hourglass thing in the practice mode so you could see the exact timing they are expecting from you so I don't have to waste so much time trying to figure it out.

 

[Poto2222]

Kompetitive Discussion

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Jackqui also has something that is arbitrarily hard to do imo.

I mean, you literally hold forward and double-tap 2. Anyone complaining about that probably shouldn't be playing competitive-style fighting games.

Like, for anyone who can't do that, how did you ever play Test Your Might? Or any other game that requires rapidly mashing a button for a QTE or getting out of a grab, etc.

 

[scrubjesus111]

I do hate the timing of some of the strings in the game. I wish they had that little hourglass thing in the practice mode so you could see the exact timing they are expecting from you so I don't have to waste so much time trying to figure it out.

that would be a really nice addition

 

[Badboy Takuma]

You are all missing the question... just going to start a new thread I guess and reword it

you mean those rapid-fire inputs?
yes they are dumb. as an arcade stick player i dont have a problem with them though.
those inputs should be lolz on pad i guess

 

[STB Bodam]

Everyone's execution is perfect, if yours isn't then LOL

RIP - this thread

 

[scrubjesus111]

I mean, you literally hold forward and double-tap 2. Anyone complaining about that probably shouldn't be playing competitive-style fighting games.

Like, for anyone who can't do that, how did you ever play Test Your Might? Or any other game that requires rapidly mashing a button for a QTE or getting out of a grab, etc.

For a community engineer I would expect for helpful comments.

I mean, you literally hold forward and double-tap 2. Anyone complaining about that probably shouldn't be playing competitive-style fighting games.

Like, for anyone who can't do that, how did you ever play Test Your Might? Or any other game that requires rapidly mashing a button for a QTE or getting out of a grab, etc.

I would expect a more helpful comment from someone who represents this site as an admin. The question was: should there be artificially imposed difficulty in MK11? Like, the devs made Jacqui's forward 2 thing harder than it could be. It could be easier. Why not make it easier? Or is there a good reason ? I'm not even a Jacqui or EB player. It's just a question about design.

 

[GLoRToR]

should ‘artificial’ execution barriers be removed? ex: erron black’s 21212 and jacqui’s uppercut thing. So I legit CANNOT do cancels off of erron’s 21212 string consistently online. I’d love to play the character but that string is central to his game and I can't do it. Jackqui also has something that is arbitrarily hard to do imo. My question is: should NRS patch these to make them easier to do? Or do they add some positives to the game design?

Yes.

 

[scrubjesus111]

And guys i do realize neither of those examples are EWGF. Run cancels in MKX were harder. We know. What would you think if NRS patched these moves to make them as easy to perform as any string? A rousing round of applause for those who feel they already are. You guys are absolute gods. BUT for the rest of us, could there be any downside to NRS making these moves easier?

 

[wsj515]

For a community engineer I would expect for helpful comments.


I would expect a more helpful comment from someone who represents this site as an admin. The question was: should there be artificially imposed difficulty in MK11? Like, the devs made Jacqui's forward 2 thing harder than it could be. It could be easier. Why not make it easier? Or is there a good reason ? I'm not even a Jacqui or EB player. It's just a question about design.

The question is kind of a non-starter as the things you listed are definitely not worth considering as an execution barrier, they just aren't difficult if you have ever played a fighting game before, or have spent a small amount of time practicing in training mode.

There are other discussions to be had about execution barriers, e.g. how should they effect balance, should high execution characters have better/more (but more difficult to use) tools than low execution characters etc...

Yes.

Adding value as always GLoRToR, big addition to the conversation.

 

[Baconlord]

This thread is brutal lol

 

[scrubjesus111]

The question is kind of a non-starter as the things you listed are definitely not worth considering as an execution barrier, they just aren't difficult if you have ever played a fighting game before, or have spent a small amount of time practicing in training mode.

There are other discussions to be had about execution barriers, e.g. how should they effect balance, should high execution characters have better/more (but more difficult to use) tools than low execution characters etc...



Adding value as always GLoRToR, big addition to the conversation.

THANK YOU for responding to my actual question. Seriously. But it isn't a non-starter, as they definitely are execution barriers that the developers put in. And I'm sure I could do them with practice. Here might be a more interesting question: do you think it's fair that Jacqui has a move that is affected by online lag in a way that other character's moves aren't? Also I'm curious if like rainuS any of you actually would prefer that execution was more demanding in this game

 

[CrimsonShadow]

For a community engineer I would expect for helpful comments.


I would expect a more helpful comment from someone who represents this site as an admin. The question was: should there be artificially imposed difficulty in MK11? Like, the devs made Jacqui's forward 2 thing harder than it could be. It could be easier. Why not make it easier? Or is there a good reason ? I'm not even a Jacqui or EB player. It's just a question about design.

You didn't really answer the question -- it's a pretty straightforward question, and titles don't have much to do with it.

I'll ask again -- having to press a button rapidly is a feature of many games. How do you do this if you're unable to hold forward and tap a button twice?

By definition, every movement, special, and combo in a fighting game is likely 'harder than it could be', so that's not a particularly good argument in this case.