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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

WhooFlungPoo

Apprentice
I think skarlet and jade give me the most trouble. Due to keep away, but im much mlre confident in this game advancing through jt than i was in previous nrs games. Nkt sure why but johnny feels like he has amazing mix up pressure and once in can destroy. Im a total n00b compared to a lot of you but im really feeling the options, and tools in this game to handl defenses. I felt this skarlet gave me a lot of trouble, hell of a player, great spacing, but once i caught onto and learned her range i was able to counter or attack more effectively. I know it wont apply to all skarlets as everyone will play different.

 
I will say it. I'm sick of Wraith trying to make Johny out to defend Johny everytime we bring out his negatives. I want Johny to be a great character but he's not. A character can win with Johny granted they have skill but he has a lot of flaws. With most of his specials being useless, his whiffing issues, and projectiles. It's annoying.

I wanna see a patch soon. I still love Johny Cage as a character but I recently picked up Sonya because I got tired of people uppercutting me to death and only blocking low because of Johnny's very poor mixup game
 
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DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
I will say it. I'm sick of Wraith trying to make Johny out to defend Johny everytime we bring out his negatives. I want Johny to be a character but he's not. A character can win with Johny granted they have skill but he has a lot of flaws. With most of his specials being useless, his whiffing issues, and projectiles. It's annoying.

I wanna see a patch soon. I still love Johny Cage as a character but I recently picked up Sonya because I got tired of people uppercutting me to death and only blocking low because of Johnny's very poor mixup game
I feel you, but at the same time I also feel like we have to see the good we have in him.

I been playing Johnny exclusively since launch, and aside from the obvious flaw in not having any worthwhile Krushing Blows I feel like what's missing the most is a conditioning tool. I'm not talking mixups here. I have no problem fighting most of the cast but when someone competent comes along playing Geras, Erron, Sub-Zero, you know the big bois - It's just an uphill battle for me personally. They don't respect my kit. They don't care about the nutpunch because all I can get is a poke before they do. We actually have some of the highest plus frames in our base strings - but we just can't make much use of them due to it overall being much more worthwhile to just crouch all day.

I will say that we have a really good hit confirmable string in f344 and this works wonders a lot of the time. This is the only thing that's been a sort of conditioning tool. I like the somewhat fast recovery of f3 alone and its advancing nature. If people tend to just crouch block I stagger the string a lot. When they start poking I just do the string. If they don't poke I'm at a slight disadvantage which is really good. However, skilled players see through this after a while and simply neutral crouch, but this is where f4 comes in. There are instances where people challenge f4 due to it being 14 frames and that's when thing get a little rough, and you dont get that much from it without making a hard read and cancelling into Nutpunch.

And let's not underestimate how impactful both f3 and f4 is against Noob's b1,1+3 (I think that's the command?). We get full combo punishes while others don't which is a big thing to be honest. He can space it a bit causing f4 to whiff and then you're fucked, but that requires some very precise spatial awareness.

And when f4 into NP whiffs but you end up triggering the Krushing Blow instead <3
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
I will say it. I'm sick of Wraith trying to make Johny out to defend Johny everytime we bring out his negatives. I want Johny to be a character but he's not. A character can win with Johny granted they have skill but he has a lot of flaws. With most of his specials being useless, his whiffing issues, and projectiles. It's annoying.

I wanna see a patch soon. I still love Johny Cage as a character but I recently picked up Sonya because I got tired of people uppercutting me to death and only blocking low because of Johnny's very poor mixup game
Assuming you’re talking about me? What can I say? I’m winning games. And Kompetitor is winning games vs a variety of high level players. If you’re losing and you aren’t playing at least close to his level, I’d look at your play before blaming the character.

And let’s not pretend I’ve done nothing but defend this character when most of the buff ideas floating around- suggested by yours truly first. The distinction I make with complaints is constructive ideas vs unproductive rants, and I’ve remained consistent with that this entire thread.

Saying “Johnny’s bad” or “he’s worse than the whole roster” helps no one. It drives away new players who might wna try him, it discourages current players from exploring tech, and it ultimately leads nowhere. If we all agree he’s bad, then what? Our options become stop playing him or keep playing him and... Complain? I don’t get it.

If you think he’s bad, fine? How does that help anyone? If you come here and ask “Why am I losing? How can I fix it?” It gives us something to work with and you get something out of it- win/win, right?
Let’s talk about tech, matchups, etc. A lot more fun, honestly. If you’re honestly convinced you’ve reached the limits of the character, I genuinely do not know why you are here. Everyone else is trying to improve.
 
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Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Lead Moderator
I will say it. I'm sick of Wraith trying to make Johny out to defend Johny everytime we bring out his negatives. I want Johny to be a character but he's not. A character can win with Johny granted they have skill but he has a lot of flaws. With most of his specials being useless, his whiffing issues, and projectiles. It's annoying.

I wanna see a patch soon. I still love Johny Cage as a character but I recently picked up Sonya because I got tired of people uppercutting me to death and only blocking low because of Johnny's very poor mixup game
You love him so much you don't even spell his name right. Nice
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
CAN WE PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT HIS VIABILITY AND WORK WITH WHAT WE HAVE?!?!? Jesus fucking Christ guys. Bitching amounts to NOTHING.
I’ll spare everyone’s eyes and stop responding with walls of text. From now on I’ll just pay no attention to it, or respond with memes. Or doges. Or both.
:DOGE
 
I ran into a really good cetrion that bodied me. I'll have some matches posted in the near future. Also unfortunately my match replays of me fighting that kotal player again got overwritten by replays against the AI.
 
Would anyone here have any suggestions how to compete against Kabal's Nomad Dash cancel variation?

I found it very difficult to play neutral against him with his own long neutral tools, air projectile and cancels.
Didn't know how to play against his offense. Held farrr too many mixups, very hard to block when Low Buzzsaw comes into play.
They get good converts off of Jump Kick into Nomad Dash and my B2 failed to anti-air his crossups.

I'm going to look at their frame data now to look for openings but I let them get away with too much and I don't clearly see what adaptations I should've made to my gameplan.
 
Yes guys, can we get back on topic? For those who are successful with Johnny and doing well, what are your go to strings? and which ones do you cancel into?

So far I just cancel into his projectile from his b32 and f344 but i feel those are just surface level
D1 into mimetime can work if they like to d1. I think f4 forceballs would be better than b34, doesn't that whiff sometimes? F4 caged rage isn't bad if you do it sparingly. I find myself only really using strings to get in or follow up a an unblocked d4. Once I'm in it's pokey pokey throw time. Forceballs are great at range for stuffing slower startup moves. I wouldn't say I'm good but compared to filthy casuals I probably have a .005% edge over them which is pretty huge and they should just give up honestly.
 

SwiftEagle

Apprentice
I think the brutality requirements are quite stupid too. "Don't block an attack during the final round" is ridiculous. That goes for every character. The other two have to be done with his other variation. I can't unlock Cage's Tower, because I have to perform 10 brutalities.
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
I think the brutality requirements are quite stupid too. "Don't block an attack during the final round" is ridiculous. That goes for every character. The other two have to be done with his other variation. I can't unlock Cage's Tower, because I have to perform 10 brutalities.
SwiftEagle is right.




This is the buff no one is talking about. As far as I’m concerned, it’s the one we need the most. Easier brutalities. If they fix that, I think we can rest easy in top tier.
 
D1 into mimetime can work if they like to d1. I think f4 forceballs would be better than b34, doesn't that whiff sometimes? F4 caged rage isn't bad if you do it sparingly. I find myself only really using strings to get in or follow up a an unblocked d4. Once I'm in it's pokey pokey throw time. Forceballs are great at range for stuffing slower startup moves. I wouldn't say I'm good but compared to filthy casuals I probably have a .005% edge over them which is pretty huge and they should just give up honestly.
Awesome thanks, I also watch your YT channel. Matter of fact I have one of your matches (vs Jax) saved on a tab. Keep us updated with new tech
 
I'm better than your average player I guess. I mean however good knowing the games mechanics well enough gets you. I find I am very reliant on his f4. I honestly use it a bit too much. I just don't like getting poked out of my f344 (which barely even happens).

I also use his d4 like every 5 seconds. It's plus 17 on hit, so I go into f3,f4,or a throw. When on recovery they start doing pokes i just stay back and forceball. B34 I try to using sparingly. People tend to react to it on okie, and it's bad against people who jump.

I enjoy canceling strings into ex balls.... Well when it works. After landing ex forceballs I like going in with 124 I believe(the +6 one) to set up the spicy frame traps. Lastly, unless I'm forgetting something else, I started using b2. Nobody punishes it, and it's an ok anti air and can beat some pokes