When The Patches Come, Do You Prefer They Buff Up, Or Nerf Down?

[Geoffmeister]

Nerf !

The sooner, the better for everyone.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I prefer everyone to be around middle tier to A tier Toolset. Erron, Geras, Sub Zero, Sonya and Scorpion seem to have a few tools that are a bit strong like cancels into 50% and looping 50/50s.

The bottom tier needs to have tools to deal with the highers while still having weaknesses. Most of the bottoms just need small adjustments to get where they need to be, maybe safer strings, fix moves that wiff or reduce recovery of a special or make one move faster on start but keep it minor and only 1 or two adjustments for each of them.

I think ones like Scorpion has a few things that are strong AF like the teleport and true 50/50s but there are gaps in those mixups and are generally easy to block once everyone is familiar with Flawless Block.
The teleport is only hard to deal with because of the guess on block and fuck neutral aspect allowing him to hit out of turn but I can deal with it, he has weaknesses.

But there are Characters with almost everything with very few weaknesses and that needs to be changed. Only tone down what is truly broken. Help the characters that have a hard time dealing with those characters who have better tools.
Kotal, Shao, Frost, D'Vorah, Kano and Kung Lao are lacking in my opinion and need a bit if help, nothing to crazy but an even playing field would be nice.
Is what I ask myself is: when I go to a tournament do these characters have a good chance at winning compared to S/A+ tiers?
MK11 is definitely watered down compared to previous games. It's funny that throw is so strong in this game, when in X it was Resets, Vortex's, HTB's, Unblockable setups, plus 20 cancels on block and loopable mixups in some cases on the same characters.

I want everyone to be A/B Tier and have at least better buttons. Why do some Characters have plus on block mids while others have none or just a slow high? Why do certain ones have it all with 9 frame mids that go into mix or startup while characters like Kotal have a 22 frame mid that only hits at last part of a very long animation. Why do certain Characters have block pressure, mix and command grab while others have only unsafe buttons?
There are even Characters I think are good but just have bugs or huge faults like Jade's U+2 being way to short and wiffing on flawless block.

The bottom and low mid need QOL BUFFS while the tip top need game breaking tools toned down to make sure they have a few weaknesses.

 

[Elias6999]

injustice 2 was obviously not balanced. it heavily favored characters with strong zoning tools. you're like one of the most gullible nrs shills. i'm definitely talking in general because nrs definitely knee jerk nerfs characters.

Injustice 2 is one of the most balanced FGs, and that’s pretty much universally agreed upon. If you don’t like it, that doesn’t mean it’s not balanced.

 

[Wam-Zlay]

I always prefer nerfs over buffs. Every character should have flaws. there is no way all chars should be broken tier

 

[Elias6999]

I prefer everyone to be around middle tier to A tier Toolset. Erron, Geras, Sub Zero, Sonya and Scorpion seem to have a few tools that are a bit strong like cancels into 50% and looping 50/50s.

The bottom tier needs to have tools to deal with the highers while still having weaknesses. Most of the bottoms just need small adjustments to get where they need to be, maybe safer strings, fix moves that wiff or reduce recovery of a special or make one move faster on start but keep it minor and only 1 or two adjustments for each of them.

I think ones like Scorpion has a few things that are strong AF like the teleport and true 50/50s but there are gaps in those mixups and are generally easy to block once everyone is familiar with Flawless Block.
The teleport is only hard to deal with because of the guess on block and fuck neutral aspect allowing him to hit out of turn but I can deal with it, he has weaknesses.

Scorpion’s mixups are fine, you can fuzzy them.

Sub Zero’s on the other hand, have you seen the video SaltShaker Posted of him playing Cetrion VS Sub Zero? Looks like something out of MKX lol.

I don’t mind 50/50s, but some characters seem like they have an MKX design in mind, which tbh is kinda annoying, but the game is pretty balanced still, just annoying with some characters.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

The top tier characters are not broken, how can anyone that has played the last 4 nrs games even say this.
This games top tiers would be the bottom tier if you added all the previous games top tiers.

If they open up the moveset alot of characters would feel alot better and fix the whiffing issues.

 

[Krankk]

Buff up. If everyone is overpowered, then no one is.

 

[Vslayer]

I think the problem with NRS is they always buff too much, they should try and keep it balanced so that other characters aren't nerfed with other characters' buffs. I am not going to advocate for Cass to get damage buffs, she is good at everything, just not amazing at one thing, and that's fine by me. I like being able to zone, counter zone and pressure with one character. Sure her D2's hitbox is ASS, but I have Noob for that.

What they should fix are the hitboxes and issues with combos straight up being impossible on female characters because they fall quickly to the ground or fall further away from you compared to the male characters.

 

[LightsOut452]

Only nerf the most ridiculous crazy OP stuff

I'd rather see the bottom tier characters get buffed,

In a perfect universe, every MK character is A-tier, no bottom tiers, no S-tiers, every character has equally good, but different tools to win and is fun for us the players to use.

But we all know that's never gonna happen

 

[Deleted member 35141]

For the people that think erron is broken imagine this erron throws a jar of acid at alien and he would laugh his ass off while proceeding to rush erron down with 100% dot

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Nerf down.

I hate making more characters broken by buffing them. No one wants to play mkx again. Game is trash.

 

[Ck AeroVoid]

nerf. don't want mkx

 

[Metzos]

Buff the lower tier characters and nerf the top tier characters.

Remove the KB option from throws, or reduce the dmg they do.

Reduce dmg done after a KB uppercut into a combo.

Fix the annoying hitboxes and hurtboxes of the entire cast (although if i know NRS well that will never happen to a full extend at least).

Add the custom skills to the existing variations or make a third viable variations for tournaments. So many skills are being wasted simply because they arent tournament legal which is sad.

Post edited.

 

[Rpgz]

Until ToT is EZ Buff my main man Geras PLZ with some goddamn clothes NRS!

 

[TaserFace007]

Buff. The good characters are well designed and fun to play. Just make the worse ones better designed and more fun to play so that they can compete. There may be a few areas where some tweaks downwards would be warranted, but for the most part, modify upwards.

Also, even if they end up keeping the lame "tournament" variation system, don't just ignore all the other abilities not in them when doing the buffing and nerfing.

And yes, give Geras a shirt, FFS. He's not Aquaman.

 

[SaltShaker]

Wow, this thread does show how very different people's opinions are on how changes should be made when adjusting. Interesting. I feel i learned a lot of why there are those differences from reading these posts. I guess I can share my personal opinion on it now.

I feel like early on, there is too much buffing/nerfing to characters. I think that's what creates the imbalance. Would say that the priority would be fixing issues that affects how characters are expected to perform with their current moveset (example: Frost unable to S1 punish Scorpion teleport unless on one side of the screen. Characters moves operating differently depending on stance. Whiffing point blank. Etc). This should be priority #1, alongside minor nerfs to the top (SubZero's Batgirl level nonsense, Geras existence, Sonya's projectile), and minor buffs to the bottom (D'Vorah needs to exist, Shao Kahn a couple of slight adjustment perks, etc), while leaving the middle (Skarlet, Kabal, Jacqui, etc) relatively untouched.

My preference is to prioritize fixes/whiffing issues/etc first, nerf the tops ridiculous element of play while leaving their core, then lastly adding buffs. I think bringing the top down indirectly buffs other characters, adding to balance.

This way you can adjust priority first, then backhand adjust a couple of nightmare cases, while leaving most of the game in tact. Where I think it goes wrong is when you start adding 10 buffs/nerfs per character to all characters on some gigantic patch notes sheet. There's too much to account for that way and causes placements to simply jump around rather than stabilize.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Scorpion’s mixups are fine, you can fuzzy them.

Sub Zero’s on the other hand, have you seen the video SaltShaker Posted of him playing Cetrion VS Sub Zero? Looks like something out of MKX lol.

I don’t mind 50/50s, but some characters seem like they have an MKX design in mind, which tbh is kinda annoying, but the game is pretty balanced still, just annoying with some characters.

I'm not a Sub zero player by any means, I do believe his mix is strong once he is in but it's fuzzy blockable, in the corner it is very strong but I believe Brady made a video showing how to fuzzy it and that there are no guaranteed setups.

Scorpion I stated was fine not only can they be flawless Blocked but easily fuzzied.

In my opinion Sub Zeros 50/50s are nothing close to mkx. In X we had loopable true 50/50s, overhead to lows that where lightning fast which didn't start with high and couldn't be poked out, many if them could be ticked like early Erron Black, tekada had an unblockable with his 50/50s. Then there where resets, vortex, restands into 30/30/30s and even HTBs.

MK11 is nothing like that. I'm fine with mix as long as thier are weaknesses which it looks like most have being unsafe, high starter and in some cases flawless blockable as well.

In my opinion mix-up is only broke when it's easy to apply it. Maybe Sub Zero needs to have less advantage on knockdown but honestly you have plenty of options to keep the agressor guessing on wakeup.

 

[Xelz]

Buff up. The top characters feel complete, fun, and their moves synergize well together. Characters below top tier feel like something is a bit "off." Maybe "buff" isn't quite the right term, since it's not just about moving damage up or frames down. A light re-tooling of their move sets seems necessary to give them the flair and fun factor of the top tier characters.

 

[spidey300]

Injustice 2 is one of the most balanced FGs, and that’s pretty much universally agreed upon. If you don’t like it, that doesn’t mean it’s not balanced.

so i guess restricting close range characters while a majority of the high tier characters are zoners is balanced. even if it is balanced it's balance was not geared towards being fun.

 

[Vslayer]

so i guess restricting close range characters while a majority of the high tier characters are zoners is balanced. even if it is balanced it's balance was not geared towards being fun.

I have to agree, Injustice and balance can’t possibly go in the same sentence together.

 

[LightsOut452]

I kinda feel like people who main strong characters don't want to buff up the low tier characters, so they would continue winning with their main

while the mid and low tier mainers want to buff up

it's understandable

P.S.
I'm not talking about anyone personally, or even anyone in this thread, it's just something I noticed even outside TYM

 

[SaSSolino]

Both.

Nerfs are annoying, but necessary. The alternative is another clusterfuck like MKX.

 

[AbeW]

I know it'll never happen because it's nrs and their balancing is almost as bad as arcsys. they always have knee jerk reactions because they just see what loud minorities complain about. I would rather they buff up. make those not as good characters better so people aren't just switching to the next best thing. no nerfs; just buff the weaker characters

Very true, loud stupid fckers like REO who have never won anything in the competitive scene (but, have their tongue out all day long) are the reason some inherently flawed mechanics are in this game.

 

[mrapchem]

Very true, loud stupid fckers like REO who have never won anything in the competitive scene (but, have their tongue out all day long) are the reason some inherently flawed mechanics are in this game.

Is this guy for real? REO never won anything??!!? In the absence of sarcasm, that comment is extremely foolish and completely uncalled for.

 

[Wigy]

If you buff everybody up to Erron, we are playing MKX again and you can forget about neutral footsie play and ya know... everything they said this game was going to be about.

Any reply but this is wrong.