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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
Rip Torn said:
If you replace 4 with F3, it does more damage.
@Wigy says this might be because 4 is a launcher and scales harder even though it does more damage on it's own than F3.
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It does? How much. When I tested it was a significantly harder link so maybe I didn't get as many s2s.

BNB wise I think f3 is the winner
 
B

Bigrig

Noob
Wrath0594 said:
If you want a really fleshed out list of reasons- check out that thread from the main page- the poll on "Whose the worst character". On page 1 a jade main named GloRtor lays it out, and page 2 I do at length, but I'll sum it up.

Her run is worthless. The move out of it is reactable, the run is risky, the cancel is negative. It basically isn't a real run. By meterless pop up, do you mean her overhead? Because that thing is awful. It's 28 frames so it's reactable. It's -17 and has no pushback, so full combo punishable. She needs meter to get meaningful damage off it, and her BnB does a lot less than most characters.

That move is her only true combo, the rest of her conversions are downright awful, we're talking sub 200 dmg and a lot of that is because her specials are all terrible.

Her only zoning options are a projectile with a 20+ frame startup and it's high, so no one is getting hit by it. The air projectile is ok, but nothing amazing- she cant cancel the recovery like Kabal can. She can be zoned back, and gets zoned hard. Glow is good, but it isn't enough. A lot of moves like Skarlet tongue still hit her in glow, and if someone really wants to zone her, glow doesn't stop them. They duck and wait for it to end, and hit her on activation.

All of her normals with big hitboxes- f2, b2, and b1 are all punishable on block. The rest of her normals are incredibly stubby- less range than any character I can think of. They are almost never safe.

That's about it. Most of the mains straight dropped her after beta and are waiting for buffs before they touch her again, and I don't blame them.
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Hey thanks for the info my dude, really just looking at it all from videos I see of her stomping players, havent really matched against her yet, and now I know why lmao, anyway cheers I appreciate the help a lot.
 
Wrath0594

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
Bigrig said:
Hey thanks for the info my dude, really just looking at it all from videos I see of her stomping players, havent really matched against her yet, and now I know why lmao, anyway cheers I appreciate the help a lot.
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Np dog. I don’t want to discourage people, they should try her on their own. I only know this stuff cuz a friend wanted to main her but was struggling, so I helped him lab her. God, I love online practice mode.
 
R

Rodney Quillz

Kombatant
Wrath0594 said:
Sorry to double post, but yeah just don't play him into Cassie, Jacqui, JC, or anyone else small till the hitboxes are fixed. Losing the forceballs on block is so massive, that you just auto lose vs a lot of the cast. I'm to the point where I just wait to see if they pick someone with a normal hitbox before I bother using Johnny.
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I can’t believe after all this time that screwed up hitboxes are still a thing! I had a Johnny Cage mirror yesterday and it was hilarious and sad at the same time.
 
Rip Torn

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Wigy said:
It does? How much. When I tested it was a significantly harder link so maybe I didn't get as many s2s.

BNB wise I think f3 is the winner
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I think it did about 20 more damage. Something like 330 vs 310. I tested it yesterday so the numbers aren't fresh in my head.
 
N

NewMK11Player

Noob
Damn i've been playing nothing but Erron so far, was thinking of using Johnny but after reading some of this stuff I might not even bother lol, is there a guide out there for him? or strategy guide, best moves etc.
 
Chad Ironchest

Chad Ironchest

Noob
I was playing some set's yesterday against my friend's cassie. I really struggled against her low gunshot low-profiling my forceballs, so I had no fullscreen presence, forcing me to rush in. Once I got in I was getting decent success with throws but other than that my up close game was rough when he kept blocking low. I had a hard time punishing a lot of her strings in the set, and after labbing I found a lot of her stuff was safe.

I was able to find out a gap in her main mid-hitting string on the last hit where I could d2 after ducking. If she only does the first 2 hits then she is -7 iirc. You guys got any experience in this matchup? What stuff did you try that helped? I played erron after and had a much easier time as that man's kit is loaded.
 
Wrath0594

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
Chad Ironchest said:
I was playing some set's yesterday against my friend's cassie. I really struggled against her low gunshot low-profiling my forceballs, so I had no fullscreen presence, forcing me to rush in. Once I got in I was getting decent success with throws but other than that my up close game was rough when he kept blocking low. I had a hard time punishing a lot of her strings in the set, and after labbing I found a lot of her stuff was safe.

I was able to find out a gap in her main mid-hitting string on the last hit where I could d2 after ducking. If she only does the first 2 hits then she is -7 iirc. You guys got any experience in this matchup? What stuff did you try that helped? I played erron after and had a much easier time as that man's kit is loaded.
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Don't play Johnny into it. You can't end any string in forceball amp because her hitbox is bugged. It's too crucial to his gameplan to play without. Sacrificing them means you're just tossing out f44, and b34 hoping they get hit, if not just taking negative frames.
 
Chad Ironchest

Chad Ironchest

Noob
Wrath0594 said:
Don't play Johnny into it. You can't end any string in forceball amp because her hitbox is bugged. It's too crucial to his gameplan to play without. Sacrificing them means you're just tossing out f44, and b34 hoping they get hit, if not just taking negative frames.
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Yeah you're right. I want to tell myself there's something in the matchup that I can do, but perhaps I'm just being too ideal
 
lionheart21

lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
While trying to think of a good use for F2, 1, here's some midscreen BNBs that I've discovered. Nothing flashy, but pretty easy to land consistently:

No Bars:
j.i.2, B2, Dash, 1, F2, 1, BD3 20.4% (can probably add in an additional Dash, 1 after the first one)
j.i.3, Dash, F2, 1, BD3 19.1%
j.i.3, Dash, F3 or F4, BD3 18.6%

1 Bar:
j.i.2, 3, 4, BD3 MB, Dash, F2, 1, BD3 27.1%
 
Derocus

Derocus

'The Cage Mage'
Any of you fellas got advice on what to do about people who jump-away?
Back in MKX, every time I read a jump, I'd air-ball ez pz, but now, my best option on that jump-away read is shadow kick. Not the biggest fan on having to use that since it knocks 'em so far away. Plus it gets slapped by air-ports and dive kicks.
 
lionheart21

lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
Wigy said:
I'm actually having a lot of success with d3/d4 on hit into shimmy b2s.

Really does condition people
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That's good to hear. I'm still feeling gun-shy about using the B2 like that due to it being unsafe on block, I find myself going more for the throw instead.
 
Wrath0594

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
ReoSpeedwagon said:
Hey all, long time stalker on tym. I'm not great but have been playing a lot of Johnny. Is it appropriate to link to our own videos here? Gonna upload some sets etc to youtube. Here's the first one. Any tips are appreciated
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Don’t do 1,2 nutpunch. It’s -14 so people will blow you up if you don’t confirm properly. I would contest more wakeups. I try to always use something that covers regular and delayed wakeup until they show me they’re willing to use wakeup attacks. Force them to spend bar, then dash in, block, and punish, or jump in. But you have to start by pressuring their wakeup.

Aside from that, we could help more if you uploaded losses. I’ve heard people who review footage to give tips say this, but if you critique a win, it’s nitpicky, cuz what the player did worked in that context.
 
Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
I don't think I've ever been punished on nutpunch by anything but a poke lol. I do np d1 np til they actually block

Also can't stress how important his j2 is to press his plus frames, that and b2 shimmying has made a huge difference. Just gotta be patient. Stay just past jump in range and use a lot of projectiles.

If someone is baiting your jump in they are not mashing d1.

Remember guys about 75% of the cast is ass. Johnny is NOT that bad. He may need some quality of life changes down the line and bug fixes at the moment but he's good. Just actually figure shit out.

So I'm guna take it into the lab tomorrow and look into it more because Johnny seems to be able to NJ2 and beat both of geras's wakeups for a full combo in the corner.
 
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M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
It doesn't matter if 75% of the cast is ass since all you're fighting in ranked or tourneys are cassies errons and other 99-1 matchups.

P.s. b34u3+4 doesn't come out on block. Ex nut doesn't come out on block even if framedata specifies it's -9. Lol nrs.

He is absolutely vaporized by anyone with a low hurtbox projectile, absolutely no answer to that.
 
Saltea Mike

Saltea Mike

ROG Mike
M.D. said:
It doesn't matter if 75% of the cast is ass since all you're fighting in ranked or tourneys are cassies errons and other 99-1 matchups.

P.s. b34u3+4 doesn't come out on block. Ex nut doesn't come out on block even if framedata specifies it's -9. Lol nrs.

He is absolutely vaporized by anyone with a low hurtbox projectile, absolutely no answer to that.
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The only thing I found to somewhat "work" is instead of using balls up close is to use db4 and PRAY they try to react a little too late..
 
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