reptile vs Sonya

[Muffinmuggers]

Reptile cant get forceballs on the screen because Sonya can shoot twice before he can start his first forceball, escape by jumping isnt anything a Sonya player fears considering she has a divekick an air throw and her air-to-airs end in a reset mixup situation, while reptile has no air control what so ever.

A reptile player trying to put forceballs on the screen is like a Cyrax trying to catch a fireball spamming Kabal in a net.

Even if the reptile player gets the forceball on the screen she can just Ex Cartwheel it if you dash in, on block its safe, leading to her footsie game which is too strong for reptile, and on hit its 30% ish gone.

Sonya can swing the momentum right back easier than he can start it, on top of that she's probably got the biggest comeback factor in the game, so its hard for any Reptile to keep on top of her, especially since you're gonna have to poke at some point because her 7 frame jab will beat all your starters and her divekick kills your pokes.

Her D4 owns him within dash distance too.

Something I just thought of and would like to check is if Sonyas F4 makes it so she cant be dashed by Reptile? She can do it to hop over KLs low hat and counts her as airbourne so would dashes work? If thats the case then Sonya could probably spend alot of time throwing out overheads which are 0 on block and create nasty mindgames, and on hit give a safe jump.

The more I go into depth the more screwed it looks like Reptile is against her.

There is nowhere on the screen that Reptile dominates her in this matchup.

She wins fullscreen.
She wins midscreen.
She dominates up close.

Took the words outta my mouth. See, i've gotten ya a couple times with reppy but I don't know what i did. I'm gonna have to play you more and i'll try to exploit it. Thanks for your input on the sonya vs reptile match.

 

[dribirut]

i found that ex ffb to be my best ally against her.. wwhen shes half screen away charge it up the first time and she will almsot always dive kick and get hit or a smart one will try anad onion ring you but you can tell shes going to do it so release and you still get a combo..

 

[dribirut]

and if you cant get the fb on screen just right after a knockdown charge it up.. sonya players are very rushdown oriented

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

and if you cant get the fb on screen just right after a knockdown charge it up.. sonya players are very rushdown oriented

She can divekick over a fully charged forceball, at around half screen she can also ExCartwheel her way through it too

 

[CitizenSnips]

This isnt a 5-5.

Sonya outzones reptile from fullscreen
She has better mixups up close
Longer D4 that leads to frametraps right back into a footsie/mixup situation
More damage
Can divekick reptile out of the dash and has a 7 frame jab thats easy to punish a blocked dash with

Probly like a 7-3 in theory. But 6-4 in actual play

I've only played a few Sonyas (played you a few times) and I typically get butchered against them if they know how to fight Reptile. I agree, I don't think Reptile has any sort of advantage anywhere on the screen but it's not like he can't win. The only thing I can really do against her is bait her to dive into charging forceballs and to keep pressure on her. If I let her initiate the pressure then it's a really tough fight.

 

[xxteefxx]

this matchup is the reverse concept on Kung lao matchup. instead of Pure zone in mobility, Sonya can zone out AND rush down.
this match all about momentum, pure rush down sonya's can be nasty if they know their weight. match is slightly sonya favor, though VERY doable unlike other matches and other char

6 - 4 sonya

Foxy grandpa: i am not picking on u, but i just noticed ur post and i like reading ur stuff. though, i must comment on some stuff here.

Reptile cant get forceballs on the screen because Sonya can shoot twice before he can start his first forceball, escape by jumping isnt anything a Sonya player fears considering she has a divekick an air throw and her air-to-airs end in a reset mixup situation, while reptile has no air control what so ever.

Not true, Reptile can zone bait. Sonya only option is to end her zone out and rush it with either Blocking or EX cart wheel or regular footsies. Anything else is Punishable by Good elbow dash read/ slides (even footsies and Regular cart wheel), and most effectively EX FB.
EX FB plays a major role at reptile zoning, even on Hit trade. EX Fast FB on trade full screen (regular sonya FB) will lead reptile to full combo.
Sonya cannot double FB trade against Reptile FB unless reptile did a regular slow and did nothing after but to block. and in that case she will get traded by the second FB due to the pressure and mind games Reptile to put after.....so this situation u mentioned is completely wrong.

"A reptile player trying to put forceballs on the screen is like a Cyrax trying to catch a fireball spamming Kabal in a net."
- hmmmm...trading a net with a regular IA gas pulse is Very worth it against Kabal due to the ability to either bait Dash footsies, or force gaurd at the right time to excute TP or bombs.....it's not great in situations, but if Kabal is SPAM happy with IApulse and saws, then kabal will get severely punished by cyrax net Catch, and cyraz will be able to get up form knock down to TP and put a full combo!
so yes, it's a VERY rewarding for cyrax....
same issue for sonya, which can be VEY rewarding to reptile. the match at high level play is all about who does the correct choice, avoid the zoning and happy pressure mistake, and good footsies.
so by means, i dis agree with those two mentioned examples as a Reptile main player.


"Sonya can swing the momentum right back easier than he can start it, on top of that she's probably got the biggest comeback factor in the game, so its hard for any Reptile to keep on top of her, especially since you're gonna have to poke at some point because her 7 frame jab will beat all your starters and her divekick kills your pokes."

- she doesnt have the biggest come back in the game, but she's one of them. wut hinders her is the ability that every move in her juggles are breakable even the EX special, unlike Kit,cyrax,shang...etc were u cant breaker mid way through specials

her 7 frames jab is a standing 1, which is duckable by reptile due to his Low hit box. so standing 1 aint the threat. the threat is Her cr+1
most of sonya's Target combos put her in Zero frame advantage, making it hard for reptile to poke at finished strings due to his slow pokes (9 cr+1 and 8 cr+3). especially i guess sonya 3,2,1? which is best in corner due to the +1 advantage she gains due to military stance cancel and in general.
that's why her d+1 is a threat to reptile as well as other chars. on top of that, add to that the Meter drain bug that happens a lot against Fast pokers like Jax and SOnya. were ur active Armors can be stopped due to the fact that the CPU doesnt count the first frame of the active armor as invincible, but instead as fast instant/active block.

so i agree with u on that, though just wanted to correct.


Her D4 owns him within dash distance too.
- Not clear what u mean in here....dahs distance?
though cr+4 for sonya and Reptile is universal, and so regular Elbow dash will stuff it. hence as footsie from sweep distance to close (whether anti cross up or in general) Elbow dash will win hands down. though it comes down to Baits scenario in such case.
if footsie as well against reptile, then it's 5 - 5 chance to do so, cause reptile also has 12 frames cr+4. and reptile cr+4 ~ ex elbow dash is reptile favor after wards on pressure.
so this is not a viable reaosn why sonya dominate reptile at all....just a regular tool


Something I just thought of and would like to check is if Sonyas F4 makes it so she cant be dashed by Reptile? She can do it to hop over KLs low hat and counts her as airbourne so would dashes work? If thats the case then Sonya could probably spend alot of time throwing out overheads which are 0 on block and create nasty mindgames, and on hit give a safe jump.

- Reptile regular dash punish any move if excuted and even sometimes safe against EX armor move. ur only bet to punish Regular elbow dash is on start up, a fast footsie or poke from close range(not sweep) were it's as same speed as reptile elbow dash (6 framer). for sonya's case, it's cr+1.
there's nothing like what u mentioned exists in the game, fast active move will be ANYTHING even same speed if they are activated first. by means cannot be interrupted mid way due to the invincibility of the active frames the move has.
u cannot just random f+4. in such case, u will be forced to Block BETTER instead and punish elbow dash way easy after will full combos.....so no point for f+4 at all unless if it's used up close for mix up pressures.

There is nowhere on the screen that Reptile dominates her in this matchup.
-That if she has armor only


She wins fullscreen.
She wins midscreen.
She dominates up close.

-Fullscreen it's 50 - 50 and reptile with EX has advantage
-Mid scren 5 - 5 and reptile has advantage due to his EX moves. SOnya's EX cart wheel range cannot hit from mid screen. only close and up to sweep
-She does dominate up close, whether Armor or not. 6 - 4 sonya

you forgot one though
-Sweep distance: sonya pure Advantage on rush down. footsie 5 - 5 as well as baits, AA with both chars...etc. very 5 - 5 though very risky for reptile if sonya has meter!
due to Air dive kicks, auto correct dive kicks against reptile Elbow dash on jump reaction, EX armor and in general footsies for sonya

Standing 1, EX slide, EX FB, Elbow dash and in general footsies of either f+2/ cr+4...etc in general for reptile at such distance

 

[xxteefxx]

She can divekick over a fully charged forceball, at around half screen she can also ExCartwheel her way through it too

hmmm not correct. depends on the arc, and it has a buggy issue where i shall mention that in the upcoming vid as well as in the other thread i made bout those weird stuff lol.
the move has a random generated hurtbox at different distance of the height, same issue Like Mil Random generated hurtbox on her Tele-kick after doin an EX one.

by means, EX FB charge is viable if used up to further sweep distance before she execute the JUmp and then dive kick. Same situation happens from mid screen on reading jumps in and move.due to this situation, it prevents sonya from jumping over (i am sure of this as i tried it plenty before...unless i miss understood what u said. will try it out again to make sure today)

this situation when EX FB charged is alrdy active, so by means you cannot jump Fully over reptile while he's charging, though u can break through depending on the frames of EX FB execution(when it was put on screen) and the jump arc.

only move to escape such situation, is sonya doin her hop arc kick (where she jumps from ground to air and land up to half screen). which is risky due to frame recovery (reptile can elbow dash ).

hope i understood what u meant her cause i was kinda lost actually >< lol

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

You dont get it teef, full screen reptile cant forceball because she can shoot twice before he can charge up one ball.

Her D4 is longer than Reptiles and leads to frametraps, meaning her footsies are better. Considering Reptile players dont really have to understand the concept of footsies because thats what the dash is for.

Midscreen she has:

MSF1
Ring
D4
Cartwheel or Ex
Divekicks

Reptile has:

D4xxAcidhand
Dash

Everything else he does within this range gets blown up by divekicks, even D4 and dashes get owned by divekicks.


She can jump over the forceball and divekick it if its charged because I do it all the time.

You realise Sonya has advantage off of almost all of her strings when she cancels into MS?

If a Sonya player is playing around their D1 as much as you'd suggest they're wasting opportunities.
Spacing a D4 properly is so much better/more important than not worrying about spacing and trying to mash out a fast down jab

The Reptile Sonya matchup is one I'd say I'm well versed in so please dont come in here and try to theory fight it out when I know for sure whats happening in the matchup.

 

[xxteefxx]

You dont get it teef, full screen reptile cant forceball because she can shoot twice before he can charge up one ball.

Her D4 is longer than Reptiles and leads to frametraps, meaning her footsies are better. Considering Reptile players dont really have to understand the concept of footsies because thats what the dash is for.

Midscreen she has:

MSF1
Ring
D4
Cartwheel or Ex
Divekicks

Reptile has:

D4xxAcidhand
Dash

Everything else he does within this range gets blown up by divekicks, even D4 and dashes get owned by divekicks.


She can jump over the forceball and divekick it if its charged because I do it all the time.

You realise Sonya has advantage off of almost all of her strings when she cancels into MS?

If a Sonya player is playing around their D1 as much as you'd suggest they're wasting opportunities.
Spacing a D4 properly is so much better/more important than not worrying about spacing and trying to mash out a fast down jab

The Reptile Sonya matchup is one I'd say I'm well versed in so please dont come in here and try to theory fight it out when I know for sure whats happening in the matchup.

Hello foxy.
sorry for the late post.

if ur accusing me of theory fighting, then what did u simply do? funny thing that a lot of stuff for reptile u didnt state just to back up sonya Foxy....i am not sure if you even know them or not.but i will assume you do, as well as that u know reptile from bottom to top and i will take the good side of ur words instead.

The match is horrible, and ur responding as if i am backing up that the match is reptile favor or that it's 5 - 5. while i clearly mentioned in MANY MANY post, that this matchup was 6-4 if not worse....that when people used to say that reptile kills sonya too!
sadly the reasons u mentioned are some how weak and partially correct! not fully correct.
something caught my attention....i remember u posting about how Elbow dash was horrible and that reptile is this and that....now all of a sudden, ur 100% positive that sonya kicks his arse. which i agree on...but just wondering what made u change ur words all of a sudden dear member.

now, consider this something ....if ur gonna keep on writing like that every time just because u want to authorize your talk over others, then dont put words that can conclude a meaning of "my way or the highway". the simplest road i can take , is simply not bothering to reply to u again or even comment on ur stuff or even read them. ur a smart guy and i like the way you think/write, as well as i respect all in here...so please keep it out of any ticking Ego, or anything like that (That if i got the correct vibe from this last post...if not, then i apologise in advance. also that is based on this)
The Reptile Sonya matchup is one I'd say I'm well versed in so please dont come in here and try to theory fight it out when I know for sure whats happening in the matchup.

by means, telling me stuff like " i play sonya i know more" , " or "i play a lot of rep, i know more"...etc , it's not worthy at all to me,in fact it's completely useless to me as well as others....because i simply treat every body equal and dont undermine. so dont do that cause it's so EASY to undermine you...yes i am serious
if i didnt know what i am saying in here, i would've not even bothered replying...so dont write as if it's one sided, cause it's really childish most of the times and proves a lot of negativity toward players skills.
which i bet ur better than this, and that ur a good player? ...tell me i am wrong?

-Reptile has:

D4xxAcidhand
Dash

and

EX dash
cr+4XX EX dash
EX charged FB

"Everything else he does within this range gets blown up by divekicks, even D4 and dashes get owned by divekicks."
not correct. also, Reptile VS sonya dead zone is sweep distance not further. also EX charged FB from Mid screen can catch SOnya's Dive kick if the initial Active frame of EX FB charge is out alrdy.

"She can jump over the forceball and divekick it if its charged because I do it all the time."
i didnt say she cant or that i dis agreed. i dis agreed on the distance to preform this ,which is not from Mid screen nor sweep on fully active frames. but instead slightly inside sweep and in close.

"If a Sonya player is playing around their D1 as much as you'd suggest they're wasting opportunities."
At all. using d+1 correctly, especially after Safe links of MS Cancel/ or even regular can result in complete stuffing of Elbow dash! due to the speed that the elbow dash is active on the "2nd frame of the move"....and so cr+1 will most of the cases wins. by means, it comes out in 6 frames, but it's active after the first frame, which means it's still subject to stuffing.
forgodsake, sonya's cr+1 wins against armors like ex slides and wut not , and results in meter drain bugs! and it happens in a ratio of 75% to 25%


You realise Sonya has advantage off of almost all of her strings when she cancels into MS?
correct and not correct. if sonya will dash cancel into cr+1 after MS then it's a frame war (what are the frames, not quite sure). though, yes it's advantage if sonya will use MS stance moves (example f+1~wheel kick)

though what does that have to do with anything? i think i know....u brought it up when i said 3,1,2~MS zero advantage right?
i should've been clear. 3,1,2 is one of her most Stun damaging attacks, doing MS Dash cancel into 1 afterwards can even stuff Elbow dash due to the MASSIVE + frame on 3,1,2. making it a very viable Poke afterwards. not only that but increase SOnya's mix up pressure options.
against reptile....will, are u aware of his frames start ups of cr+1 and cr+3?
just fyi, this will always stuff reptile's ANYTHING (input move here). and yes, armored slide and Elbow dash are subject to interrupt in such case(EX armors has a high chance to fail due to the meter drain option select bug)


also, i am glad u edited the 2x projectile part....cause it was really out of context and wrong in every aspect.

last thing, why you think that because u main sonya then u know her better than me? based on what exactly? as if you know me well ?

have a good day Foxy, and hope to read more of your replies on boards soon.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Hello foxy.
sorry for the late post.

if ur accusing me of theory fighting, then what did u simply do? funny thing that a lot of stuff for reptile u didnt state just to back up sonya Foxy....i am not sure if you even know them or not.but i will assume you do, as well as that u know reptile from bottom to top and i will take the good side of ur words instead.

The match is horrible, and ur responding as if i am backing up that the match is reptile favor or that it's 5 - 5. while i clearly mentioned in MANY MANY post, that this matchup was 6-4 if not worse....that when people used to say that reptile kills sonya too!
sadly the reasons u mentioned are some how weak and partially correct! not fully correct.
something caught my attention....i remember u posting about how Elbow dash was horrible and that reptile is this and that....now all of a sudden, ur 100% positive that sonya kicks his arse. which i agree on...but just wondering what made u change ur words all of a sudden dear member.

now, consider this something ....if ur gonna keep on writing like that every time just because u want to authorize your talk over others, then dont put words that can conclude a meaning of "my way or the highway". the simplest road i can take , is simply not bothering to reply to u again or even comment on ur stuff or even read them. ur a smart guy and i like the way you think/write, as well as i respect all in here...so please keep it out of any ticking Ego, or anything like that (That if i got the correct vibe from this last post...if not, then i apologise in advance. also that is based on this)
The Reptile Sonya matchup is one I'd say I'm well versed in so please dont come in here and try to theory fight it out when I know for sure whats happening in the matchup.

by means, telling me stuff like " i play sonya i know more" , " or "i play a lot of rep, i know more"...etc , it's not worthy at all to me,in fact it's completely useless to me as well as others....because i simply treat every body equal and dont undermine. so dont do that cause it's so EASY to undermine you...yes i am serious
if i didnt know what i am saying in here, i would've not even bothered replying...so dont write as if it's one sided, cause it's really childish most of the times and proves a lot of negativity toward players skills.
which i bet ur better than this, and that ur a good player? ...tell me i am wrong?

-Reptile has:

D4xxAcidhand
Dash

and

EX dash
cr+4XX EX dash
EX charged FB

"Everything else he does within this range gets blown up by divekicks, even D4 and dashes get owned by divekicks."
not correct. also, Reptile VS sonya dead zone is sweep distance not further. also EX charged FB from Mid screen can catch SOnya's Dive kick if the initial Active frame of EX FB charge is out alrdy.

"She can jump over the forceball and divekick it if its charged because I do it all the time."
i didnt say she cant or that i dis agreed. i dis agreed on the distance to preform this ,which is not from Mid screen nor sweep on fully active frames. but instead slightly inside sweep and in close.

"If a Sonya player is playing around their D1 as much as you'd suggest they're wasting opportunities."
At all. using d+1 correctly, especially after Safe links of MS Cancel/ or even regular can result in complete stuffing of Elbow dash! due to the speed that the elbow dash is active on the "2nd frame of the move"....and so cr+1 will most of the cases wins. by means, it comes out in 6 frames, but it's active after the first frame, which means it's still subject to stuffing.
forgodsake, sonya's cr+1 wins against armors like ex slides and wut not , and results in meter drain bugs! and it happens in a ratio of 75% to 25%


You realise Sonya has advantage off of almost all of her strings when she cancels into MS?
correct and not correct. if sonya will dash cancel into cr+1 after MS then it's a frame war (what are the frames, not quite sure). though, yes it's advantage if sonya will use MS stance moves (example f+1~wheel kick)

though what does that have to do with anything? i think i know....u brought it up when i said 3,1,2~MS zero advantage right?
i should've been clear. 3,1,2 is one of her most Stun damaging attacks, doing MS Dash cancel into 1 afterwards can even stuff Elbow dash due to the MASSIVE + frame on 3,1,2. making it a very viable Poke afterwards. not only that but increase SOnya's mix up pressure options.
against reptile....will, are u aware of his frames start ups of cr+1 and cr+3?
just fyi, this will always stuff reptile's ANYTHING (input move here). and yes, armored slide and Elbow dash are subject to interrupt in such case(EX armors has a high chance to fail due to the meter drain option select bug)


also, i am glad u edited the 2x projectile part....cause it was really out of context and wrong in every aspect.

last thing, why you think that because u main sonya then u know her better than me? based on what exactly? as if you know me well ?

have a good day Foxy, and hope to read more of your replies on boards soon.

Theres absolutely no reason to use a D1 after a MS cancel considering shes at advantage to sweep or overhead freely, on top of that she has a 7 frame standing 1, so why use her 6 frame D1 when her standing 1 is just as good as loads of other characters pokes. Even if they duck your standing 1 and poke you back, most of the time they're not at advantage enough to get a move out before they eat a divekick, unless they hit you with a D4 or are smart enough to punish Sonyas strings correctly. This means that the other player has to respect the divekick at almost all times and opens up opportunities for her blockstrings, and a single blockstring alone from Sonya can end up taking 20%

Also any good Sonya player should know that using MSF1 after a blockstring is a bad idea because the opponent can jump out, thats why you use MSB4.

Where is reptile getting all this meter for EXFB and all these armoured slides/Ex Dashes you're talking about? He doesnt build meter in this matchup other than being hit, he cant dash, he cant forceball, all he can really do for meter is spit full screen and occasionally land a blockstring.

Maybe you should get an opinion from somebody like [MENTION=7158]Muffinmuggers[/MENTION] or [MENTION=2157]UsedForGlue[/MENTION] because you're talking about a fight that doesnt exist.


How is it ever 5-5 up close like you said?

Sonya has AA normals/specials
Quicker normals, more damage
Frametraps etc etc

Reptile struggles enough just to anti air, and if he isnt dashing he pretty much has to be jumping.

Reptile isnt at advantage midscreen because of his Ex Moves, 1 dash in and its automatically Sonyas close game first of all.
Secondly she can just shoot rings and his jump wont reach her, and he cant dash through them.
His projectiles are so slow that on reaction Sonya can divekick them.
His D4 acid hand aint that hard to read either, because hes either gonna dash at you or hes gonna walk at you and D4 = Divekick. On top of that his D4 is shorter than Sonyas, so she has more freedom to do her frametraps.

Reptile doesnt have advantage fullscreen, please go play anybody with a brain using Sonya, and have a fullscreen zoning war, Reptile cant do shit other than acid spit, and by that point he wouldve lost the life lead because Sonya recovers faster.

If the Reptile player tries the typical Dash Jump thing they're gonna get AA'd by her standing 1 anyway.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Theres absolutely no reason to use a D1 after a MS cancel considering shes at advantage to sweep or overhead freely, on top of that she has a 7 frame standing 1, so why use her 6 frame D1 when her standing 1 is just as good as loads of other characters pokes. Even if they duck your standing 1 and poke you back, most of the time they're not at advantage enough to get a move out before they eat a divekick, unless they hit you with a D4 or are smart enough to punish Sonyas strings correctly.

Also any good Sonya player should know that using MSF1 after a blockstring is a bad idea because the opponent can jump out, thats why you use MSB4.

Where is reptile getting all this meter for EXFB and all these armoured slides/Ex Dashes you're talking about? He doesnt build meter in this matchup other than being hit, he cant dash, he cant forceball, all he can really do for meter is spit full screen and occasionally land a blockstring.

Maybe you should get an opinion from somebody like [MENTION=7158]Muffinmuggers[/MENTION] or [MENTION=2157]UsedForGlue[/MENTION] because you're talking about a fight that doesnt exist.


How is it ever 5-5 up close like you said?

Sonya has AA normals/specials
Quicker normals, more damage
Frametraps etc etc

Reptile struggles enough just to anti air, and if he isnt dashing he pretty much has to be jumping.
Reptile isnt at advantage midscreen because of his Ex Moves, 1 dash in and its automatically Sonyas close game first of all.
Secondly she can just shoot rings and his jump wont reach her, and he cant dash through them.
His projectiles are so slow that on reaction Sonya can divekick them.

Reptile doesnt have advantage fullscreen, please go play anybody with a brain using Sonya, and have a fullscreen zoning war, Reptile cant do shit other than acid spit, and by that point he wouldve lost the life lead because Sonya recovers faster.

If the Reptile player tries the typical Dash Jump thing they're gonna get AA'd by her standing 1 anyway.

Reptile really struggles with Sonya in general. No matter what way you look at it, in theory and/or in practical fighting.

 

[Sao87]

Good thing F0xy CC'ed his friends so they could put their artificial stamp of approval on his opinion.

I wasn't aware that Reptile had to fully charge his ex orb in order for it to work.

This match in theory seems a lot different than I see it explained. Just because were playing against Online reptiles with a repetitive mentality doesn't mean he can't hang with Sonya. A lot of the stuff you say are reactions could be nothing more than reads, probably good educated guesses though because it doesn't sound like your opponents are adjusting.

Oh that D4, yea I dive on that. My match up opinion is based on my experiences online where I can dive with immunity.

I wish I played in a world where I could use strings that whiff overhead as my counter pokes, rather than normals which are guaranteed to set up more pressure.

 

[PND_Mustard]

Good thing F0xy CC'ed his friends so they could put their artificial stamp of approval on his opinion.

how would you best reccomend a real stamp of approval over a forum?

 

[Sao87]

how would you best reccomend a real stamp of approval over a forum?

Both players make good points, I don't see any sense in turning discussions like this into an echo chamber. They could further elaborate on his side of the argument and drive his opinions home.

 

[PND_Mustard]

Both players make good points, I don't see any sense in turning discussions like this into an echo chamber. They could further elaborate on his side of the argument and drive his opinions home.

i would, but i know dick all about reptile

 

[UsedForGlue]

Good thing F0xy CC'ed his friends so they could put their artificial stamp of approval on his opinion.

All two of us. A landslide.

 

[xxteefxx]

Theres absolutely no reason to use a D1 after a MS cancel considering shes at advantage to sweep or overhead freely, on top of that she has a 7 frame standing 1, so why use her 6 frame D1 when her standing 1 is just as good as loads of other characters pokes. Even if they duck your standing 1 and poke you back, most of the time they're not at advantage enough to get a move out before they eat a divekick, unless they hit you with a D4 or are smart enough to punish Sonyas strings correctly. This means that the other player has to respect the divekick at almost all times and opens up opportunities for her blockstrings, and a single blockstring alone from Sonya can end up taking 20%

Also any good Sonya player should know that using MSF1 after a blockstring is a bad idea because the opponent can jump out, thats why you use MSB4.

Where is reptile getting all this meter for EXFB and all these armoured slides/Ex Dashes you're talking about? He doesnt build meter in this matchup other than being hit, he cant dash, he cant forceball, all he can really do for meter is spit full screen and occasionally land a blockstring.

Maybe you should get an opinion from somebody like [MENTION=7158]Muffinmuggers[/MENTION] or [MENTION=2157]UsedForGlue[/MENTION] because you're talking about a fight that doesnt exist.


How is it ever 5-5 up close like you said?

Sonya has AA normals/specials
Quicker normals, more damage
Frametraps etc etc

Reptile struggles enough just to anti air, and if he isnt dashing he pretty much has to be jumping.

Reptile isnt at advantage midscreen because of his Ex Moves, 1 dash in and its automatically Sonyas close game first of all.
Secondly she can just shoot rings and his jump wont reach her, and he cant dash through them.
His projectiles are so slow that on reaction Sonya can divekick them.
His D4 acid hand aint that hard to read either, because hes either gonna dash at you or hes gonna walk at you and D4 = Divekick. On top of that his D4 is shorter than Sonyas, so she has more freedom to do her frametraps.

Reptile doesnt have advantage fullscreen, please go play anybody with a brain using Sonya, and have a fullscreen zoning war, Reptile cant do shit other than acid spit, and by that point he wouldve lost the life lead because Sonya recovers faster.

If the Reptile player tries the typical Dash Jump thing they're gonna get AA'd by her standing 1 anyway.

Foxy this is my final reply to u for a while, becuase in every post u do the same mistakes.
-not read carefully
-Enter because u just want to enter and say something...JUST BECAUSE U WANT TO SAY SOMETHING and prove your side alone
-Flip the tables just to prove that what ever you said is the thing

Trust me, take ur experience to the grave when it comes to me and my knowledge....cause sorry but in every post i reply to you i have to prove you wrong and then you come back with VERY weird stuff just to get back at me. and most of them, are quite weak like the "Double Projectile with sonya" ...or did u forget that now?
or like the jax stuff...or like the elbow dahs...etc.....

so please stop mis reading, cause if you cant understand...tell me to Elaborate. but dont bring stuff up and then again start to undermine others JUST TO SHOW that your something....it means nothing but garbage to me

-First off, where in hell did i say this matchup is not sonya favour? AGAIN! what are you arguing about and why are you relating this to the posts?
if i wrote that this is reptile favour, then please show me that in a quote

-Secondly, i am dis agreeing on what your saying because all of the reasons you mentioned (most) are not the main reason why reptile lose in this matchup...
not zoning out! not double projectile....not dive kick anti EX FB charge from med screen because it's impossible as well as gettin over them from mid screen...and lots of reasons
it seems that you have some reptile matchup experience, but just not knowing what exactly is the case....so ur just going theory fighting.
by means, it's a sonya favor and you win it!! but your not aware exactly WHY you win it exactly or whats troubling reptile

as simple as that: SOnya dominate reptile because of those
-Her pressure game with her strings and traps
-Her dive kick setup from sweep up to close
- and finally Sonya Fully controlling inside the distance of sweep to close (with ANY TOOL)


"Theres absolutely no reason to use a D1 after a MS cancel considering shes at advantage to sweep or overhead freely, on top of that she has a 7 frame standing 1, so why use her 6 frame D1 when her standing 1 is just as good as loads of other characters pokes. Even if they duck your standing 1 and poke you back, most of the time they're not at advantage enough to get a move out before they eat a divekick, unless they hit you with a D4 or are smart enough to punish Sonyas strings correctly. This means that the other player has to respect the divekick at almost all times and opens up opportunities for her blockstrings, and a single blockstring alone from Sonya can end up taking 20%"

and your telling me i am theory fighting?
i am saying actual frame data content...your basing a PROBABILITY of what the player or how the player will react with a possibility that it might work!
not accuracy...take it to the grave

again....i dont care bout the divekicks cause i never dis agreed on this. and it so seems that you didnt understand any of what i posted, and your just re POSTING the same points that i never dis agreed with.
which in general are very logical...and YES dive kicks are one of the major probs for reptile.
if you noticed my replies, i toward to specific stuff you mentioned. re read them cause all of the points i quoted was toward stuff that can be used as gamble for sonya...and instead , you made them that they work 100% of the time. for instance, your latest example of her standing 1 :S

funny thing, when i mentioned counters for sonya at mid screen for example....you didnt reply on that. does it mean you agree? or that you werent aware of them?
in that case, apply the same concept to the rest of the quotes answers i had toward you....did u agree? or you simply not aware of them?
because u really didnt mention anything bout them and instead, your backing up a fact that i fully agree with...were sonya DOMINATE AT THE END.
but this is not why i am replying, i am replying because your stating the wrong stuff on WHY sonya dominate....got it?


"Also any good Sonya player should know that using MSF1 after a blockstring is a bad idea because the opponent can jump out, thats why you use MSB4."

again!! your the one who brought this subject up not me!! show me were i did EVER TALK ABOUT MS OPTIONS in a string beside the mentioned example?
START READING MORE CAREFULLY AND STOP ANSWERING WITH WHAT YOU WANT TO ANSWER
i clearly said >> 3,1,2 STING ONLY....nothing else.

now, if opponent can jump of that and even by MS canceling into d+1 after, then PLEASE ....show me that cause that would be new :S

what i said, that this string can pressure reptile SEVERELY and reptile has no answers to it except for elbow dash IF your not going to stance cancel. and no, doing dash cancel into d+1~ chain to moves iS NEVER A BAD OR DUM DECISION for sonya's....period :S. in fact, it's a beast in corner in this specific situation against chars like kenshi and reptile

so please read more carefully


"Where is reptile getting all this meter for EXFB and all these armoured slides/Ex Dashes you're talking about? He doesnt build meter in this matchup other than being hit, he cant dash, he cant forceball, all he can really do for meter is spit full screen and occasionally land a blockstring."


what? ...are you high dude?

"Maybe you should get an opinion from somebody like [MENTION=7158]Muffinmuggers[/MENTION] or [MENTION=2157]UsedForGlue[/MENTION] because you're talking about a fight that doesnt exist."

with all due respect, i am one of the few who tought reptile in here.Not only that, i am a well known reptile player.....maybe you should go get an opinion on what i stated from [MENTION=278]Riu48[/MENTION], @mortysienfeld, @blake, [MENTION=4552]Poto2222[/MENTION] and MANY MANY more...i can go endless
as they are my regular sparring partners in off scene, tournament and online


How is it ever 5-5 up close like you said?

Sonya has AA normals/specials
Quicker normals, more damage
Frametraps etc etc


....when did i say that? if you found it, i will give you 10 dollars


Reptile struggles enough just to anti air, and if he isnt dashing he pretty much has to be jumping.

ahh...not correct and very un advanced reptile playing style....why would i do that to get in?
what you said was VERY VERY un advanced solution, based on a probability of an OPTION as well....and you made it that it's something that every reptile do


"Reptile isnt at advantage midscreen because of his Ex Moves, 1 dash in and its automatically Sonyas close game first of all.
Secondly she can just shoot rings and his jump wont reach her, and he cant dash through them.
His projectiles are so slow that on reaction Sonya can divekick them.
His D4 acid hand aint that hard to read either, because hes either gonna dash at you or hes gonna walk at you and D4 = Divekick. On top of that his D4 is shorter than Sonyas, so she has more freedom to do her frametraps."

1- hmmm...really he's not? why would i dash?....your stating a dum mistake from reptiles as an advantage to sonya and if reptile will do that everytime
hmm...a good reptile player will never dash in blindly. this match i barely even dash against sonya (just FYI)
yes i would say reptile has advantage due to his FB control...mid screen you have no answr but to either try to get in or trade. this is also not just med screen, but better max screen as well.
NOTE: THIS IS ONLY if reptile will use his meter. even on regular hit trade or block, REPTILE can cause pressure with his projectiles

2- ahhh....rings? jump....who u playing exactly. if your that GODLY in responding to footsies of cr+4 into EITHER slide follow up, or qcid hands or EX dash pressure....then other reptile will on reaction EX slide through Rings every time or even regular slide!! because we are godly reptile players as well :S

or is this another two projectile while reptile can do anything about it? because the rings too fast...?

3-His projectiles are so slow that on reaction Sonya can divekick them. ?

really...and that every where on screen as well? are they slow in travel speed, or frame start up? or the mind games with FB's whether slow FB, fast fb or even charged with different timings?
so your so general that any reptile FB's you can dive kick punish them? regardless of the distance?

4-"His D4 acid hand aint that hard to read either, because hes either gonna dash at you or hes gonna walk at you and D4 = Divekick."
Read number 2 please.
also hmmm do you know reptile can mix it up after cr+4 right? risky or not! it's mix ups....also, are you aware that they are footsie from sweep doable?
and ya reptile will walk at you and to just cr+4....and you will wait to just dive kick them?
you seem like you spam dive kick? is it? if so....i would sugegst any reptile fighting you to simply let you rush ALWAYS everytime to bait the dive kicks and severely punish.
cause once reptile able to do that and is able to cause this threat, the match is turned upside down...and PS: this is the actual way of countering sonya in the match

-Reptile doesnt have advantage fullscreen, please go play anybody with a brain using Sonya, and have a fullscreen zoning war, Reptile cant do shit other than acid spit, and by that point he wouldve lost the life lead because Sonya recovers faster.

really? so EX FB pressure and FB strings wont force sonya not to get close EVEN if they traded? Funny that this even work med screen and if traded i can even dash in and full combo....so how come that it's zoning war per favor reptile when reptile can take FULL SHAPE control of his FB games?

your being very one sided....even on hit trade Reptile Has advantage and will force sonya to stay were she's at!! whether your projectiling, arrow kick, or regular dash in
also, acid spit is never done alone without an FB mind game follow up :S.

i think your the one who never fought a reptile with a brain , in such case....(i think i just word traded in here as well...same like full screen war zoning)

-If the Reptile player tries the typical Dash Jump thing they're gonna get AA'd by her standing 1 anyway.

.....what?...again reptile jumping is the best option after dash right?



to end this discussion, cause i am not gonna reply to you again ESPECIALLY when your not carefully reading and just wanna reply blindly to enter the argument and win it, which is very childish.
reason for reptile he loses in this match is because Sonya has great tools every where on screen against rep! though the major threat is when sonya reach inside of sweep distance...not FULL SCREEN....not MED SCREEN....but instead when she's in side sweep distance

any other situation, it's Very 5 - 5....and if reptile has meter and want to spend it! it's reptile favor when it's Med screen and Full screen! though the down under he can get after if not controlled correctly, can be very risky, because sonya dominate reptile from close up to sweep distance range.

end of story. seriously i am not gonna reply back on such topic, because it's useless

 

[xxteefxx]

Good thing F0xy CC'ed his friends so they could put their artificial stamp of approval on his opinion.

I wasn't aware that Reptile had to fully charge his ex orb in order for it to work.

This match in theory seems a lot different than I see it explained. Just because were playing against Online reptiles with a repetitive mentality doesn't mean he can't hang with Sonya. A lot of the stuff you say are reactions could be nothing more than reads, probably good educated guesses though because it doesn't sound like your opponents are adjusting.

Oh that D4, yea I dive on that. My match up opinion is based on my experiences online where I can dive with immunity.

I wish I played in a world where I could use strings that whiff overhead as my counter pokes, rather than normals which are guaranteed to set up more pressure.

thank you very much sao. how u doing today by the way?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Ok you know what fuck it. If you want help on the Reptile Sonya matchup just ask Teef cause he clearly knows what hes talking about and I dont know shit.

Its like everytime I post something that I know works he writes an essay about something else that has nothing to do with it trying to prove me wrong. But whatever.

He's obviously mained her longer than me and discovered some super secret power behind her D1 that makes her amazing vs Reptile or some shit LOL

And all your answers are just 'well I wouldnt do that, blah blah blah.' Well wtf would you do then because his options are running pretty fucking slim if you sit there and do nothing.

By the looks of it you clearly havent taken spacing into account what so ever (Refer to the D4 acid hand comment)

 

[Faded Dreams V]

I like Teef's posts. He reminds me of a wacky cartoon scientist character, or Fawful from Mario. <3

 

[xxteefxx]

Ok you know what fuck it. If you want help on the Reptile Sonya matchup just ask Teef cause he clearly knows what hes talking about and I dont know shit.

Its like everytime I post something that I know works he writes an essay about something else that has nothing to do with it trying to prove me wrong. But whatever.

He's obviously mained her longer than me and discovered some super secret power behind her D1 that makes her amazing vs Reptile or some shit LOL

And all your answers are just 'well I wouldnt do that, blah blah blah.' Well wtf would you do then because his options are running pretty fucking slim if you sit there and do nothing.

By the looks of it you clearly havent taken spacing into account what so ever (Refer to the D4 acid hand comment)

sigh*.....taking a deep breath*
:facepalm:

okay foxy. i apologize for being very strict in the post. though i dont see that i am trying to prove you wrong...period! your the one who' tryin to prove that what i said is wrong and every time u bring an evidence i counter it. and now it led to this cry baby scene from both of us. i am simply correcting some stuff you said , were u say they are completely advantagious from sonya...while they are not.


all i said is, yes this is a horrible match for reptile! fully agree that it can even reach 6 - 4. but the reasons u stated proved nothing and were VERY errilevant to why the match up is bad. in fact, i out stated you in a lot of sntences and tell now i bet you dont have the answer for them. if you do, them shoot em up.

i am dis agreeing because your mentioning, possibilities, Reactions, opponent mistakes, and PROBABILITY of traps depending if opponent know them or not. i am basing on actual fact with proves as well.
reactions, and probabilities are nothing when it comes to basics of why the bracket of this matchup is what it is. technically in my posts are based on everyone is equal, were everything is back and forth. not if opponent made a mistake and other countered it.

and yes, this is not the first time that i explain a matchup to anyone at all...in fact i explained this plenty of times. in fact, i helped other sonyas on how to counter reptile match up :S.....like i dont mind explaining. but what i do mind is weak evidence, or " I AM KNOWN THAT I DID THAT" or " I AMIN THIS CHAR...etc"
it comes to a conclusion that the writer with those words doesnt have much back up info to put down with his seige. Making his battlefeild weak and easily spotted for mistakes.


again, please no hard feeling foxy, and i apologize if i did. but i see that i did nothing wrong with my backed up proves. in fact, i believe i was able to answer correctly as on defense to all reptile player.
arent you doin the same with sonya? defending her that she has the matchup down? i am not dis agreeing on that....but i am slightly dis agreenig with the facts i brought.


and no i dont main sonya....but i assure you that there's not a single char in the game that i am not aware of from top to bottom! even there matchups or in general their matchups against other. the same assurance you stated were you knwo this matchup very well. so how come i dont have the chance for that as well? or is it just one sided favored your side? ...kinda unfair man

so i will leave the sonya part for you. it's X mas, so cheer my friend....lets say i will by pass your words for now and i shall not argue bout them again cause there're no point in that.


By the looks of it you clearly havent taken spacing into account what so ever"

not nagging on you....but have you as well ?

also, you mained sonya and then you used the phrase i probably know her better than you...etc. no i dont i bet, and i bet your waay better sonya than me. but why would'nt i say the same?
why did you put the fact that you know everything in the matchup and i dont? based on what? and when i reply to you, you surrendered with this saying.....the world doesnt just revolve around you my friend, it passes by us all, one by one as well.


And all your answers are just 'well I wouldnt do that, blah blah blah.' Well wtf would you do then because his options are running pretty fucking slim if you sit there and do nothing.

hmmmm...ty for the blah blah blah. and sorry for the wall txt, but i always try to be as detailed as possible so i can cover everything about the mentioned situation.
her option are not running slim at all...i said they are 5 - 5! read up carefully again please. you still didnt answer many of the stuff i mentioned....i wonder why!
for example, you said stuff that i didnt say, and i asked you to show me were did i post that.....and tell now i didnt recieve anything.
the match is very 5 - 5 outside of sweep distance......that's why sonya has advantage over reptile.
reptle in general needs to be VERY offensive in order to kill. him being close to sonya is an issue! thus making reptile rushdown VERY VERY risky thing. though, doesnt mean it's 5 - 5 outside this bracket.

and the reason why reptile will advance med and full in my opinion, is because of his mix up FB, as well as his golden armor


"He's obviously mained her longer than me and discovered some super secret power behind her D1 that makes her amazing vs Reptile or some shit LOL"

alright...lets see, up on the posts Foxy you mentioned that d+4 is a great footsie that stuff elbow dash and any other footsies by reptile. because of her d+4 as well as her dive kicks.
while those two are VERY footsie reaction random base that has no place for actuality and frame content....but , u agreed that it stuff elbow dash? cr+4 from distance? when you take control of your distance?

so how come you agree with that, but when i say something that is 100% correct about d+1 stuffing elbow dash up close, it becomes a mockery of a super tick?

lets take a look at frame data
cr+1 = 6 frames
cr+4 = 12 frames
Elbow dash = 6 frames and active on the 7th.

now from a distance, footsie cr+4 will stuff elbow dash, but d+1 wont?

come on...... are you good at math man? if so, this wont be hard at all to understand or even try it out yourself in practice mode :S.. in fact, which is harder to do? stuffing elbow dash form a distance with cr+4, or stuffing elbow dash in close with cr+1?

care that reptile cr+1 and cr+3 are 11 and 13 respectivley. and his EX slide is 12. so what makes more logic to you?

in conclusion, YES!! d+1 is anti reptile.....goddamit reptile cant do shit in close pressure with a mix up of cr+1 on safe strings , mix ups and baits!
unless you found another way were reptile can counter opponent with a specific move or normal...which i would GLADLY love to have , or know so i can improve my game against sonya.


anyways foxy. again i apologize if i was offensive, but you started the war first with some of your saying. please dont have any hard feelings. and no! i shall not consider myself a better sonya player than you. but also, no need to get to this line man...it's a forum, we are mature.

take care and merry x mas. i shall not bother you anymore with posts.

 

[xxteefxx]

I like Teef's posts. He reminds me of a wacky cartoon scientist character, or Fawful from Mario. <3

haha. merry xmas to you fadded ty and take care

 

[Scoot Magee]

Reptile can play the zoning game with sonya, you just have to get your shit on screen first. Spit works well, if you land a spit she cant throw out another projectile without getting hit by another spit (you can opt out of spit and actually get a fb on screen) if I remember correctly, you'll also be able to block the 2nd projectile. I was playing against RIU48's sonya for a while the other night. If she gets her projectile out first and keeps putting them out you have to move up and it's wise to move up slowly and get your spacing right because you don't want to be in her face unless you're forcing her to block. I played it safe with 321 acid hand would back out again after most of the time. Sometimes I would throw out a dash or EH dash to set something up after advantage while watching out for cartwheels in between.

The cartwheel is tricky, I'm not sure how much disadvantage it is on block but I do know dash wins if she tries to attack after and EH dash is a safer option if you don't want to get blocked and hit with a full combo. It's just a good way to stop her from continuing pressure after a blocked cartwheel cause reps normals are slow as shit.

This is just roughly what I remember going on from when we played on thursday night. I'm not going to throw out any numbers or anything until I play the match more and get a better understanding but it didn't feel as though reptile was at a huge disadvantage. Though I will say if you let her get rolling on you up close it's problems.

 

[THTB]

Sonya definitely has advantage over Reptile, but it's not impossible for Reptile to play. Pretty hard, but not impossible. Teef, Scoot, and Foxy have all highlighted the main reason why...she performs in various areas better than Reptile, obviously. Reptile has to use meter to fight her, which is hard to come by due to this.

 

[rpg]

Fighting sonya is one of reptiles hardest problems i have them all the time, we have to come up with something better that would work against her options..