"Tournament" Variations seem Slapped together

[kabelfritz]

So then people wonder how these two variations would be formatted. Turns out NRS didnt give the variations more moves to compensate for the lack of customs. SOME CHARACTERS LITERALLY ONLY HAVE TWO SPECIAL MOVES!

but you know that variation moves are just on top of the fixed special moves?

 

[OnlineSkunk]

Disagree.

It might not be what we wanted as our perfect loadouts, but really try to look at the reasoning behind the decisions.
It generally seems like everyone got:

Variation that: deals with strong zoning
Variation that: execute a strong strategy (either big damage, great offense, or great neutral/zoning tools).

Some characters have the one anti-zoning and one variation with hardcore damage rushdown (like Kotal who got his command grab and F2 combo extender and in the other variation he has great anti-zoning tools). And other characters like SubZero got one variation that is anti-zoning and the other with really strong neutral tools, a mid projectile, and a way to make all his strings safe while retreating him.

==============================================================

Also, I've been doing a ton of thinking and I think I understand the reason they made this decision.

"Balance" isn't it. IMO they could have realistically balanced the game with the "This move Conflicts with ____" option they added. I think they honestly made it this way to give the game longevity with seasons like other ESports.

This way, NRS has the power over the meta. They will add new variations and it'll make the game feel fresh every single time they decide to make a big patch, like Overwatch.

If they had chosen to just have everything available from the start, NRS would be balancing things from start to finish, but it wouldn't have that big WOW-change like adding variations for every character all at once into the meta.

Good point, I just hope I can do long sets against people using tournament variations, I don't want to have to talk to someone to agree to use tournament variations every time I want to do a long set. There should be ranked player match and ranked matches which is where I would be playing all the time, I'm not even touching custom variations.

 

[Samsara]

I'd be fine if certain variations only have two moves because one takes up 2/3 slots. That'd just be the point system doing its job to balance out stronger stuff.

But if at release characters have only 2 moves and there's an empty slot left then I'll definitely pout.

You misunderstand. When I say 2 moves, i mean 2 moves total. Period. Not two additional moves to the base moveset.

 

[Samsara]

but you know that variation moves are just on top of the fixed special moves?

Why do ppl keep posting what I've already explained. 2 moves TOTAL. ice ball + cold shoulder is 2. Not two additional. Two.

 

[Name v.5.0]

No, I don't like variations. I want fully fleshed out characters.

Yes, I think custom variations should have been competitive standard.

That being said...

This is spreading like cancer all over the internet. Can we please just wait till day 1 before we start getting super negative? We have no idea if this is actually what it's going to be. I can't believe TYM and the rest of the net hasnt figured out that all we fucking do is bitch bitch bitch. Wait for there to be something to bitch about rather than saying "OH SUB ZERO IS TRASH!" before you even get to touch him. Seriously, wtf is wrong with people.

 

[Archer]

As a player who prefers trap characters, I was really disappointed to see most of the trap moves advertised not make it into the final variations. It does bite that if I want to play Erron Black for instance, I'm going to need to wait until they give me his bear trap in a variation sometime down the road, if ever. Looking at the variations I'm worried that they built them purely around more popular/generic playstyles. Yes, that makes them appealing to the most people, but it alienates players who prefer more niche ways of using a character. This would not be an issue if they never made those moves in the first place, and stated from day 1 for example "Erron Black can only be played as a grappler or anti-zoning character", but they got everyone's hopes up with how diverse of playstyles custom variations (or 3+ variations) could allow.

 

[HeavyNorse]

Custom variations all the way. I'm not going to touch the preset variations at all. So no Tournament or Ranked for me.

 

[MrArcher15]

Shouldn’t it just be yes or no? Low key the poll is kinda skewed just looking at it from a probability perspective.

 

[esports1452]

No shit. But Cold Shoulder replaces slide (-1). So that leaves him with ice ball and cold shoulder (2).

And maybe a third move?
I don’t buy it

Samsara is correct, in the current build (0.093-09-c2e3315a), Sub-Zero's "Dead of Winter" tournament variation, has access to a TOTAL of 2 special moves: Ice Ball and Cold Shoulder (with their respective amplified versions, of course).
I made a note in the original post to highlight this fact.
https://testyourmight.com/threads/spoiler-thread-people-officially-have-the-game-already-no-story-spoilers.69013/page-45#post-2481068

 

[Euphoric]

Yup and this is why most of us want kustoms because NRS proved they cant make good and balanced variations for every character once again. Sure some are good, but let’s use scorpion for example, none of his have his best move so if they didn’t change his frame data and make you able to special cancel more he’s still gonna be bad. One of his variations is exactly what I would have done (death spin, spear kombo, burning spear) but the other is air throw and teleport cancel....like the 2 most useless moves are in a variation (I know teleport cancel has used but not for 2 slots). Can we please stop sucking NRS and saying they’re gonna do everything right when they’ve proven time and time again that they won’t? I still remember day 1 unbreakable sub zero in MkX lol he was literally half a character

Idk how long you been playing FGs homie, but there's no such thing as balance in fighting games.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

I totally agree with you man. I would have loved to make my best Kano variations. I had multiple in my head that would have been AMAZING.

But after the initial "WTF" when they first announced presets, I honestly think this is the better way to go for right now.

It's better for the longevity of the game, and at least we'll get hype new variations over time that'll make the game feel fresh every time.

That seems like a really shitty way to extend the life of the game. Slowly "unbanning" combinations of moves. The players should be the ones in control of the meta. Let things evolve naturally, not after arbitrary time limits. This limits the chances for players to make a splash with unorthodox combinations, and "prove" their character's worth in tournament. There will definitely be a lot unfamiliar blowups, but the scumbaggery is the hypest shit in fighting games.

So many people are going to be sitting in training mode pulling off the sickest shit with "illegal" variations, just having to hope and pray that someday NRS sees the value in their loadout.

Fuck this sterile shit to the utmost degree.

 

[DivineImpalerX]

For now we should calm our beards and wait for Day 1 Patch. Scorpion without Misery Blade seems kinda unrealistc lul.

 

[Samsara]

For now we should calm our beards and wait for Day 1 Patch. Scorpion without Misery Blade seems kinda unrealistc lul.

Day 1 patch appears to already be out. Unless they have another patch planned this is what we're stuck with. I heard it was 2 gigs.

 

[OzzFoxx]

Gawd none of you whiners has any idea what these variations will be like. Steve has been playing them for months, calm the fuck down.

 

[Vslayer]

Seems like we'll be the ones testing those tournament variations they put together and they'll change them accordingly, I'm okay with that tho.

 

[just_2swift]

Lol ppl cried for variations and laughed at me for wanting complete characters. Now hear we are.

 

[TaserFace007]

While ignoring the ranked mode is fine, my concern about the presets is that the abilities which aren't in them will end up being completely ignored by the devs, like the extra abilities in Injustice 2 tended to be. For instance, if the frame data for Misery Blade is a bit wonky, it will always remain wonky. If a given ability is seriously overpowered, it will never be toned down and a weak ability will never be improved.

They built an entire game around the concept of customizable abilities and then slapped together the presets right at the end while they wree busy doing a thousand other things to get the game ready for release and my worry is that this will cause everything to suffer.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

The day one patch isn’t live yet. That was a day zero patch like all other nrs games.

 

[trufenix]

Is this the worst the community has ever been or can we go further into the trench?

 

[Madog32]

While ignoring the ranked mode is fine, my concern about the presets is that the abilities which aren't in them will end up being completely ignored by the devs, like the extra abilities in Injustice 2 tended to be. For instance, if the frame data for Misery Blade is a bit wonky, it will always remain wonky. If a given ability is seriously overpowered, it will never be toned down and a weak ability will never be improved.

They built an entire game around the concept of customizable abilities and then slapped together the presets right at the end while they wree busy doing a thousand other things to get the game ready for release and my worry is that this will cause everything to suffer.

I think it was said by Ed that they intended to include every move a character has in some variation or another. Hopefully with the release of new variations in the future, all abilities will be addressed. Maybe even to the point where they can eventually allow customs in tournament. I think with the time they have available to them before launch, this is the most realistic approach they can take.

Fingers crossed!

 

[BadMoodBarry]

Is this the worst the community has ever been or can we go further into the trench?

 

[Law Hero]

I just don't like how we have to wait for each move to get a slot in a competitive variation.

It's messed up how NRS promised each move would be available from the start, but omitted the fact that not every move would be present in a competitive variation though. I get that they'll be available EVENTUALLY, but that's still dumb. It very much feels like we're paying for an unfinished product that still needs an extra year to be complete. I truly would not have minded so much if this was announced earlier instead of in the last minute.

 

[ColdSpine]

People calm down, im sure variations will be patched, shuffled, balanced, adjusted and reworked as the game progresses

 

[JSF]

Idk how long you been playing FGs homie, but there's no such thing as balance in fighting games.

Entire life, and there is such thing as a game with more than 6 viable characters and a game without useless characters. Every fighting game isn’t extremely unbalanced it’s just NRS games. There will always be characters better than others but in some games the best is a 9 and the worst is a 6, with NRS the best is a 12 and the worst is a 3. Hope that made sense lol and there’s still no online ranking system

 

[Madog32]

Entire life, and there is such thing as a game with more than 6 viable characters and a game without useless characters. Every fighting game isn’t extremely unbalanced it’s just NRS games. There will always be characters better than others but in some games the best is a 9 and the worst is a 6, with NRS the best is a 12 and the worst is a 3. Hope that made sense lol and there’s still no online ranking system

whether you were a fan of I2 or not, I don't think you can argue that the game wasn't a well balanced game