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Soul Calibur 6: THE SOUL STILL BURNS!

JBeezYBabY

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
Eldagrin said:
I don't think anyone actually knows how good or bad Amy is yet. Also her super is ridiculous once she has roses, it becomes an 80 damage i16 with red roses (which are super easy to get) and once she has purple it's a 90 damage i12, I think her i12 6A+B+K CE being like 50 damage is balanced though. Once she has purple rose she's one of the strongest characters in the game, but Amy players are still developing a solid gameplan for reliably getting there.

Edit: My point really is that Amy is way too new for anyone to know how good she is, I'd give it at least another 2 months at the earliest before we know anything at all on her tier placement, it's not like an NRS game where we normally find out who is good within 3-4 weeks of a patch.

Edit 2: I hate editing my posts this much but I hate cluttering threads more, what do you mean Mi-Na is a nightmare "now", that bitch has been the only consistently top tier character in Soul Calibur 6 since launch except for MAYBE Ivy and Kilik.
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I think they made her too complex. It would be cool if white roses were just as easy to get too, but it becomes a fucking chore to actually get purple status. I have yet to achieve that in a match yet and im already at 7000 RP. She's interesting...but the fact that you REALLY need to work for her power ups when plenty of people in cast are just great at their base, she will always feel mid-tier to me at least.

I need Bamco to make better decisions on this game's direction. Its killing my hype every month.
 
Eldagrin

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
JBeezYBabY said:
I think they made her too complex. It would be cool if white roses were just as easy to get too, but it becomes a fucking chore to actually get purple status. I have yet to achieve that in a match yet and im already at 7000 RP. She's interesting...but the fact that you REALLY need to work for her power ups when plenty of people in cast are just great at their base, she will always feel mid-tier to me at least.

I need Bamco to make better decisions on this game's direction. Its killing my hype every month.
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Amy can get red really easily just by playing and white roses off of almost every launch, it's not easy but once she has purple she's disgusting, even with just red she's really good. I don't think they made her too complex considering how ridiculous SC4 Amy was for being such a simple character, her complexity comes from match up knowledge more than anything, knowing your opportunities to get red and white roses off of things.

She's still stronger than Taki while having considerably easier execution. If white roses were as easy to get as red Amy would be broken, white rose gives her an i14 launcher with crazy range and PRP Amy is one of the best characters in the game easily. If she has soul charge in PRP 22_88B is a safe launcher that nets 90ish damage, 4AA is like an i16 28 damage low that tracks, is neutral on hit and is only -16.

I also think overall Project Soul is making pretty good decisions, the only really bad changes they made recently were buffing Ivy more than Taki, breaking Siegfried, and making successful GIs cost guard stamina (which is a terrible idea). They even managed to make Amy potentially balanced instead of broken as hell. If they could give the game a passable netcode for consoles (PC is supposedly fine) and make successful GIs restore like 5% guard stamina, the game would be in a pretty good spot as a base. Also fix the whiffing issues in the game.
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Eldagrin said:
I honestly think Project Soul has done a better job balancing SC6 than NRS did with Injustice 2 or MKX, and I genuinely like Ij2, none of the characters feel like shit to use, there are no match ups that are truly terrible. Like 7-3s in SC6 feel pretty winnable, whereas Harley’s 7-3’s felt like shit to play because you couldn’t do anything. Ivy, Sieg, Mi-Na, and Kilik are definitely too strong right now, but fighting them feels way better than pre patch Black Adam, Deadshot, Aquaman, or Catwoman. Or even post buff Firestorm and Supergirl.

Don’t even get me started on MKX’s top tiers, and I even used one of them.
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Yes and no. I don't think it's a matter of balance, I think it's a matter of fundamentals. In this game if you know how to option select a lot of things, or step/crouch/jump the better option, you can still beat a bad match up.

If we only take balance into consideration though, this game has some stuff that's absolutely bonkers, like Kilik. Also GIs and REs help a lot too, and unfortunately so since they give the edge to the lower skilled player for very little effort, which is why their nerf was not only welcome, but too small in my eyes.
 
Eldagrin

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
SaSSolino said:
Yes and no. I don't think it's a matter of balance, I think it's a matter of fundamentals. In this game if you know how to option select a lot of things, or step/crouch/jump the better option, you can still beat a bad match up.

If we only take balance into consideration though, this game has some stuff that's absolutely bonkers, like Kilik. Also GIs and REs help a lot too, and unfortunately so since they give the edge to the lower skilled player for very little effort, which is why their nerf was not only welcome, but too small in my eyes.
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How is the nerf too small? Would you be happier if they nerfed the window by like 2-3 frames and then GIs could not destroy your guard gauge?

Perhaps removing the ridiculous "am I going to launch you for 60 damage or am I going to break attack you for 90 damage if you GI) mix up that lv 3 GIs give you as well, adding more scaling to lv 3 GI combos wouldn't make me mad lmao
 
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SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Eldagrin said:
How is the nerf too small? Would you be happier if they nerfed the window by like 2-3 frames and then GIs could not destroy your guard gauge?

Perhaps removing the ridiculous "am I going to launch you for 60 damage or am I going to break attack you for 90 damage if you GI) mix up that lv 3 GIs give you as well, adding more scaling to lv 3 GI combos wouldn't make me mad lmao
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My changes for GIs would be the following:
  • remove the guard meter thing completely
  • remove the levels mechanic completely, instead standardize level 2
  • reduce the active frame window to 4 frames
  • add 8 frames of recovery
This would turn GIs in a hard-to-use mechanic that allows for hype comebacks, but also very risky and to be used sparingly.


My changes for REs would be the following:
  • using the mechanic costs half a bar of meter
  • meter building removed
  • anytime a 2nd round would be triggered, neutral is reset instead
  • whiffing a RE won't consume guard meter
This would turn REs in some sort of unsafe armored move, while also making the rock-paper-scissor game itself more fair and less stupid. Removing them would also be an option.
 
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Eldagrin

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
SaSSolino said:
My changes for GIs would be the following:
  • remove the guard meter thing completely
  • remove the levels mechanic completely, instead standardize level 2
  • reduce the active frame window to 4 frames
  • add 8 frames of recovery
This would turn GIs in a hard-to-use mechanic that allows for hype comebacks, but also very risky and to be used sparingly.


My changes for REs would be the following:
  • using the mechanic costs half a bar of meter
  • meter building removed
  • anytime a 2nd round would be triggered, neutral is reset instead
  • landing a RE won't consume guard meter
This would turn REs in some sort of unsafe armored move, while also making the rock-paper-scissor game itself more fair and less stupid. Removing them would also be an option.
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I definitely agree that the GI window is too forgiving in this game, same for all of the aGIs, but adding 8 more frames of recovery after they already added more recovery frames to it seems a little excessive, GIs can already be punished on whiff pretty hard now. I'm not sure how many people would agree with all of these changes at once, most of the top level players already think the GI changes were bad (besides the extra whiff recovery and whiff guard stamina cost, those were good changes). You can do whatever you want to RE, Raphael has to abuse it a lot of the time but it's a stupid mechanic, also landing an RE doesn't consume guard meter, popping RE is automatically -20%, landing it used to give you some back but it doesn't anymore.
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Eldagrin said:
also landing an RE doesn't consume guard meter, popping RE is automatically -20%, landing it used to give you some back but it doesn't anymore.
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I both mispelled and misunderstood how the RE guard meter usage worked. What I meant to say is that it should cost the same guard meter both on hit and whiff.
 
Eldagrin

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
SaSSolino said:
I both mispelled and misunderstood how the RE guard meter usage worked. What I meant to say is that it should cost the same guard meter both on hit and whiff.
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So RE should cost 10% on activation and 10% on a successful hit rather than 20% on activation?
 
JBeezYBabY

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
All i know is....my NEW custom creation is complete and the next vessel is Amy. Uncle JBeezY is ready to finally release her today. But which character did I model her after ?Question mark?

I'll give ya a hint, it's from a Fighting game classic that I've done before but with a different character.

Stay tuned ;)
 
Eldagrin

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
@Vslayer I sent you a friend request on PSN btw. @SaSSolino I was seeing some people rant about Azwel being braindead and super easy to play and OP. It's funny to me that people are jumping on Azwel again after people were like "Azwel is terrible, he's so weak" because so few people played him. I'm not very good at fighting him because I fight him so rarely, but he's really not that bad, granted, the Raph discord believes Raphael does well into Azwel.
 
Vslayer

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
Eldagrin said:
@Vslayer I sent you a friend request on PSN btw. @SaSSolino I was seeing some people rant about Azwel being braindead and super easy to play and OP. It's funny to me that people are jumping on Azwel again after people were like "Azwel is terrible, he's so weak" because so few people played him. I'm not very good at fighting him because I fight him so rarely, but he's really not that bad, granted, the Raph discord believes Raphael does well into Azwel.
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Alright cool, I'll accept once I get home if this day can be over already.
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Eldagrin said:
@Vslayer I sent you a friend request on PSN btw. @SaSSolino I was seeing some people rant about Azwel being braindead and super easy to play and OP. It's funny to me that people are jumping on Azwel again after people were like "Azwel is terrible, he's so weak" because so few people played him. I'm not very good at fighting him because I fight him so rarely, but he's really not that bad, granted, the Raph discord believes Raphael does well into Azwel.
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Every single time I talk to these people it turns out they belived Azwel played in All Mighty all the time. They just don't like to lab things or know any actual Azwel player, which makes sense since we are very few.

Every newcomer of my playgroup was just the same, until I offered them a complete rundown of the character, and everyone that took up on my offer then agreed that either he was fine or even could have used some light buffs. There's one exception though, but to be fair he's a Maxi player and I belive Azwel wins the Maxi MU.
 
Eldagrin

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
SaSSolino said:
Every single time I talk to these people it turns out they belived Azwel played in All Mighty all the time. They just don't like to lab things or know any actual Azwel player, which makes sense since we are very few.

Every newcomer of my playgroup was just the same, until I offered them a complete rundown of the character, and everyone that took up on my offer then agreed that either he was fine or even could have used some light buffs. There's one exception though, but to be fair he's a Maxi player and I belive Azwel wins the Maxi MU.
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Yeah, once you get Azwel weaponless I think Raph kind of eats him alive, since he’s fast and has good range on his moves. Plus Raphael has a good punish game.

Honestly, Azwel is one of the more creative fighting game characters I’ve seen in awhile. His design is just cool, but I doubt he’ll make a return in more Caliburs if they ever make another one, which is a bit sad.

As for the MU knowledge thing, it’s like people thinking Groh is broken, his guard damage is stupid, but everything else about him sucks offline. His mix up in Avenger isn’t real offline, his 1AK in SC is reactable, if he knocks you down and goes into avenger, side rolling beats everything but the silly little K attack. His frames suck, throws are terrible so the only way he can open you up is guard damage, but he doesn’t have the frames to force blocking. If he does his teleport shenanigans in SC offline you can reaction duck the A and just keep side walking the K. It’s kind of sad, really. But people refuse to lab stuff out
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Eldagrin said:
Yeah, once you get Azwel weaponless I think Raph kind of eats him alive, since he’s fast and has good range on his moves. Plus Raphael has a good punish game.

Honestly, Azwel is one of the more creative fighting game characters I’ve seen in awhile. His design is just cool, but I doubt he’ll make a return in more Caliburs if they ever make another one, which is a bit sad.

As for the MU knowledge thing, it’s like people thinking Groh is broken, his guard damage is stupid, but everything else about him sucks offline. His mix up in Avenger isn’t real offline, his 1AK in SC is reactable, if he knocks you down and goes into avenger, side rolling beats everything but the silly little K attack. His frames suck, throws are terrible so the only way he can open you up is guard damage, but he doesn’t have the frames to force blocking. If he does his teleport shenanigans in SC offline you can reaction duck the A and just keep side walking the K. It’s kind of sad, really. But people refuse to lab stuff out
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Yeah I love that with Azwel I basically play 5 different characters depending on which mode he's in, super cool.

As for Groh, I think he was super good, but the GI/RE nerfs hurt him. His synergy with those mechanics are only second to Kilik's, and unlike the latter his base kit wasn't enough to tank the blow. I still think he's good though: if you play with fundamentals his damage is pretty high, and his gimmicks are decent too.

Also I just found out that Nightmare's CE got buffed, so now each time his armor absorbs a hit the CE hits for free. The guy was like "Yeah man, now when he has a bar you can't go in stance against him". I was playing Maxi.
 
Eldagrin

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
SaSSolino said:
Yeah I love that with Azwel I basically play 5 different characters depending on which mode he's in, super cool.

As for Groh, I think he was super good, but the GI/RE nerfs hurt him. His synergy with those mechanics are only second to Kilik's, and unlike the latter his base kit wasn't enough to tank the blow. I still think he's good though: if you play with fundamentals his damage is pretty high, and his gimmicks are decent too.

Also I just found out that Nightmare's CE got buffed, so now each time his armor absorbs a hit the CE hits for free. The guy was like "Yeah man, now when he has a bar you can't go in stance against him". I was playing Maxi.
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Yeah, I hate nightmare’s CE so much now, Raph has one stance only dumb NM players use it against, which is SE, since SE B eats NM CE alive. I’ve seen a lot of people joke that NM CE is still bad since it’s pretty godlike now
 
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