I mean....LOL I really dont see how Groh is cancereous unless my Black ass is missing some super dirty stuff that make ppl hate him. People are hella over dramatic about Groh. Im not gonna repeat myself about his buffs. Go back a few pages on my thoughts on that.
The higher the levels i go, the more teleports get punished because its easy to punish. Either duck or Super.
Kilik's gameplan is similar to Sieg so i see where the hate comes from. All he needs to do is you on the ground and mix your shit with Oki after oki. Besides that, both are not even as cancerous as you think.
Kilik is too fast and too safe for his range. He starts doing his safe stuff and then can direspect his own frames because:
- his 22/88B is Godlike: it's a safe-ish tech-crouching launcher than leads into huge damage + oki setup.
- his WR buttons are maybe the best in the game.
- GIs have a huge active window of 12 frames, because of that if you try to take your turn with anything that's faster than 18 frames you'll be on the receiving end of his insane post-GI game. And if you do anything slower he can just press more buttons, because again: he's so fast.
In other words he can mix you up when he's in a slight frame disadvantage, meaning after all of his strings. Now you might say "other characters have a similar strenght, have you seen Sophitia's 22/88BAK?", and to that I'd reply: yeah, but Sophitia doesn't have Kilik's range so she actually needs to get in first, doesn't have as many safe strings, has some actually very bad match ups (like Yoshimitsu) and is unsafe when she tries to steal a turn... and I still have her as an high tier.
Besides that he also has the best ring outs in the game and the best soul charge in the game (arguably second to Groh). His wakeup unblockable also is pretty Godlike considering that not only it's super hard (and quite unsafe) to pressure him on oki, but he can mix that up too.
Now Groh is simiar: his range is deceptively long, his damage is dumb and always leads to oki setup, his 66A and 66B have an extremely annoying evasiion, and despite what people want me to belive: he has safe ways to enter his stance. Which he didn't need since unlike most of the cast, he has evasion on his stance too.
Also just like Kilik his soul charge is insane and everything he does is barely minus, allowing him to abuse GIs. Plus he's covered in gimmicks from head to toe, so God forbit your opponent doesn't know the MU.
And before you say anything: I know that Azwel's soul charge is insane and you could argue he has the best one in the game, but after the nerfs it only lasts for 3 SC-only moves. Not joking, try it in the lab.
I'm hoping it returns in February, but my hopes aren't high. 
