Should MK11 bring back the sexyness and fan service of MK9 to a degree?

[HeavyNorse]

In MK9 Liu Kang was as sexy as Sonya Blade.

If you mean having immensely broad shoulders and their faces smashed in with a mallet... then yes.

 

[Krankk]

If you mean having immensely broad shoulders and their faces smashed in with a mallet... then yes.

No, I mean being half naked and pressing his exposed nipples against the camera.

Model-wise NRS was still learning in MK9. Injustice was a step-up, but still on the weirder side. They started getting their crap together in MKX.

 

[Marlow]

Look at female superheroes. Almost none of them wear functional and practical outfits. But again, the same can be said for male superheroes. No man is as ripped as Captain America, Batman or Thor. And these characters are half naked all of the time as well. Look at comics. There are countless scenes, where these characters have no shirt, while they're working out or fighting or whatever.

Part of that is what we're trying to change though. I think it's progress to start to try and see female superheroes more as actual heroes instead of their value and worth being reduced to sex symbols.

I also disagree that the same can be said for male heroes. Simply having a male character shirtless with muscles is not the same thing as putting a female character in a skimpy outfit. The male character is normally portrayed as shirtless as a way to envoke feelings of envy or admiration. When you see Liu Kang, you're not meant to think how sexy he is, you're meant to think how strong, built, tough, or cool he is. When you see a female character in a skimpy outfit, you're meant to think how sexy she is. It's a case of admire vs desire. That's the double standard that typically happens when developers are asked to put more "sexiness" in their games. It's not just about how much skin is shown, it's about how the character is animated, portrayed, and presented.

 

[xXRagingFlameXx]

pressing his exposed nipples against the camera.

Proof or it didn't happen.

 

[HeavyNorse]

The reason superheroes are clad in colourful skintight spandex is because it's easy to draw! These comic artists have to draw these over and over and over and over again, so if they are too detailed, it would take tons more time to finish.

 

[Krankk]

Part of that is what we're trying to change though. I think it's progress to start to try and see female superheroes more as actual heroes instead of their value and worth being reduced to sex symbols.

I mean, you know who Wonder Woman is, right? She had rather revealing outfits for over 70 years now and no one will tell you that Wonder Woman makes women feel oppressed and objectified. Having a sexy outfit doesn't automatically go hand in hand with being objectified.

Also who is "we"? I don't want to change something, that has been working for decades. Sex sells. It always has and it always will. There has been a certain group of people in the last few years, who seems to think otherwise, but every time they try to get their will through, it ends up in a disaster.

I also disagree that the same can be said for male heroes. Simply having a male character shirtless with muscles is not the same thing as putting a female character in a skimpy outfit. The male character is normally portrayed as shirtless as a way to envoke feelings of envy or admiration.

When you see Liu Kang, you're not meant to think how sexy he is, you're meant to think how strong, built, tough, or cool he is.

Well, that's you think as a guy. I've seen plenty of women fainting, when they saw Chris Hemsworth shirtless in Thor. Hell, I'm a straight guy and I also almost fainted. I'm a straight guy, who thinks that Ryan Reynolds is sexy as hell. Have you seen his body in Blade 3? Uff.

When you see a female character in a skimpy outfit, you're meant to think how sexy she is. It's a case of admire vs desire. That's the double standard that typically happens when developers are asked to put more "sexiness" in their games. It's not just about how much skin is shown, it's about how the character is animated, portrayed, and presented.

How is that a double standard? Men and women are different. They have different traits, which the overwhelming majority of people perceives as appealing and attractive. For men it's confidence and strength (which is viewed as "toxic masculinity" by some) and for women it's beauty and elegance.

Here, look at this:

On the right you have Carol Danvers aka Captain Marvel, who used to be Ms. Marvel. Maybe you've seen her not too long ago in Marvel VS Capcom: Infinite. But yeah, that's what she looked like a couple of months ago in comics. Short hair, broad shoulders, barely any make-up, absolutely non-existing breasts. Many readers started calling her "Carl Manvers". For obvious reasons.
On the left you have an actress playing the part of Captain Marvel for a commercial or something. Through out the comic she had been portrayed as an airhead bimbo. You can probably guess what the point of all that was.

You're free to find the woman on the right visually more appealing and attractive. But in the end of the day, the majority of people will feel more attracted to the woman on the left.

 

[Juxtapose]

@Krankk The Captain Marvel image you posted is an extreme though. I don't read said comics, but I've heard Marvel Comics has gone crazy political correct in the last several years overall, so I'm assuming this look for Captain Marvel was to play up (or perhaps overly criticize?) political correctness?

I don't see any issue or reason with female characters clearly being portrayed as female, and male characters being portrayed as male. What the overall thread and discussion seem to be about, however, is not that, but rather characters (female and male) should be displayed as "slutty" or not. "Slutty" fits better than "sexy" in the context being discussed here, honestly, though for some people it also seems the two are interchangeable.

To each their own.

 

[Krankk]

The Captain Marvel image you posted is an extreme though. I don't read said comics, but I've heard Marvel Comics has gone crazy political correct in the last several years overall, so I'm assuming this look for Captain Marvel was to play up (or perhaps overly criticize?) political correctness?

No and yes.
It's not an extreme, since there are many other examples, which are at times even worse.
Captain Marvel is one of the characters, who have suffered the most from Marvels new approach.

I don't see any issue or reason with female characters clearly being portrayed as female, and male characters being portrayed as male. What the overall thread and discussion seem to be about, however, is not that, but rather characters (female and male) should be displayed as "slutty" or not. "Slutty" fits better than "sexy" in the context being discussed here, honestly, though for some people it also seems the two are interchangeable.

To each their own.

That's a good point.

It does sound like some people here can't differentiate between sluttyness and sexyness. I can and I have in this thread. I am by no means saying that NRS should bring back the style of MK9. That was over the top in terms of sexyness, so that it was slutty. Fleshpit Mileena was pretty much naked.
But at the same time I thought that MKX in general wasn't sexy enough. And I personally would like to see a mix between MK9 and MKX.

I remember a quote from a comic book artist, who said something along the lines of:
"Superhero comics should be ultra violent, super sexy and funny. It should be something you would want to hide from your parents."
And that's how I always viewed Mortal Kombat as a franchise as well. MK9 had all of that. MKX improved on a lot of stuff, but at the same time took other aspects out for the sake of "maturity". I found that to be a pity, because in my eyes they took away some of the franchises identity.

 

[Juxtapose]

@Krankk Interesting, as in the panel you posted, Captain Marvel looks androgynous; I actually thought the character on the left was Captain Marvel, and the character on the right was another male character!

I personally would call it an extreme example simply because it's showing the reformation of a character to not be traditionally male or female, but to appear neutral and thus try to appeal to everyone and yet no one at the same time, and it's, in the context of this discussion, extreme in the sense of what both camps seem to be looking for.

In terms of Mortal Kombat XL, I'm an older gamer myself, and I find the older I get, the more I prefer and find "maturity" far, far more appealing, so while I need to disagree with you on the franchise loosing some of its identity (I saw it as evolving in a good way), I do understand your view.

We'll see soon enough what we'll actually be getting in Mortal Kombat 11.

 

[Jynks]

I never liked the MKx version of Mileena... she looked fine with the mask on but the human lips over the teeth just looked wack to me. I know they did it so they could show off that lipsync tech and she speaks a lot.. but I would have much preferred to have the old school face of teeth like Baraka had in the story mode.

 

[xXRagingFlameXx]

I never liked the MKx version of Mileena... she looked fine with the mask on but the human lips over the teeth just looked wack to me. I know they did it so they could show off that lipsync tech and she speaks a lot.. but I would have much preferred to have the old school face of teeth like Baraka had in the story mode.

Nope
No
Nada
Don't even try and speak that shit into existence

I hate the full face of teeth so damn much. I hate how they have no damn lips but are still formulating words and their mouths are just opening like puppets. No. Keep the lips.

 

[Jynks]

I dunno... it looks good to me. Almost all animals on earth have no articulated lips, only a few. The voice being generated just with the tongue behind the teeth is not a biological impossibility. In fact it is the exact kind of thing I like to see in fantasy.. something different and unreal but yet totally possible.

I guess we will find out soon, as she is sure to be in the new version I would think... but yeah, imo the "lips" look was awful. I really hope they go back to the big mouth of teeth, if not right back to Baraka then towards it in some way.

It just looked terrible to me. Like those terrible twitter posts of girls doing "duck face" and sucking their lips in water bottles and stuff.

 

[Juxtapose]

I never liked the MKx version of Mileena... she looked fine with the mask on but the human lips over the teeth just looked wack to me. I know they did it so they could show off that lipsync tech and she speaks a lot.. but I would have much preferred to have the old school face of teeth like Baraka had in the story mode.

I wasn't sure on it at first, but upon playing as the Character and seeing it in action, I've greatly come to prefer it. I find it allows a greater range of expression in the character, which helped the overall tone of her "growing up" over Mortal Kombat (2011)'s portrayal.

 

[Marlow]

it's just so distracting. Its misinformative and it needlessly sets the discussion back to whatever age of "fanservice" we finally clawed out way out of.

You were right. I should have listened.

 

[MKF30]

No, I mean being half naked and pressing his exposed nipples against the camera.

Model-wise NRS was still learning in MK9. Injustice was a step-up, but still on the weirder side. They started getting their crap together in MKX.

To be fair, no fighting game is perfect with their models. NRS goes for the photorealistic vibe. Capcom that huge, hobbit feet anime-ish look, Blaze Blue and DBZ pure anime and a great game to give someone epileptic seizures, DOA is more or less 3D softcore giggly physics with anime faces, Smash is pure cartoony.

 

[Jynks]

I wasn't sure on it at first, but upon playing as the Character and seeing it in action, I've greatly come to prefer it. I find it allows a greater range of expression in the character, which helped the overall tone of her "growing up" over Mortal Kombat (2011)'s portrayal.

Each to their own, but I actually thought it greatly stunted, even changed her character.

A huge part of her identity was that she was so different and obviously non-human. Remember she is a Frankenstein monster basically. By giving her more human features, they are reducing part of the characters identity and almost removing all the historical lore surrounding her jealously turned hatred to her "real" sister and how they relate to each other.

So in mind mind it not only looked terrible, it also completely gutted her identity and destroyed decades of story. Plus tradition is a thing. I liked her they way she was, the way she always was, and I do not see that a need for change was warranted or even executed well when it happened.

 

[HeavyNorse]

Though I like mouth change in MKX, I'm a bit iffy that there was no lore-explanation to it. They just kinda retconned it without giving a reason in-game, or even in the comics where she still had her former mouth. :/

 

[trufenix]

I mean, you know who Wonder Woman is, right? She had rather revealing outfits for over 70 years now and no one will tell you that Wonder Woman makes women feel oppressed and objectified. Having a sexy outfit doesn't automatically go hand in hand with being objectified.

Wonder Woman's outfit exists because she was created to be the JLs whore. She wore a skimpy maid outfit because she was their secretary and stayed behind to clean the hall of justice while the boys went out on missions. Her greatest strength was "love" and she wanted to have sex with every one of them and had a secret desire to be tied up and humiliated, hence why she carried a rope. That's Wonder Woman's real origin story, her creator was a huge perv with a BDSM fetish. Look it up. In the 70 years since then, she has been rebooted about 20 times, changed outfits about 5, and 3 movies in people are STILL giving Gal Gadot shit for not being volumputous enough to be Wonder Woman. THIS is the problem.

How is that a double standard? Men and women are different. They have different traits, which the overwhelming majority of people perceives as appealing and attractive. For men it's confidence and strength (which is viewed as "toxic masculinity" by some) and for women it's beauty and elegance.

Nope, I stand corrected. THIS is the problem.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

based "Yes" posters

 

[trufenix]

Though I like mouth change in MKX, I'm a bit iffy that there was no lore-explanation to it. They just kinda retconned it without giving a reason in-game, or even in the comics where she still had her former mouth. :/

Nobody ever dings Baraka, he's never had lips and he's her closest relative. Especially now that she's not a clone of Kitana anymore plotwise.

 

[HeavyNorse]

Nobody ever dings Baraka, he's never had lips and he's her closest relative. Especially now that she's not a clone of Kitana anymore plotwise.

... What? Mileena is still a clone of Kitana. Did you not play MK9, or are you pulling my leg here? XD

 

[Jynks]

people are STILL giving Gal Gadot shit for being volumputous enough to be Wonder Woman.

In all fairness WoWo Fans complaints about Gal's physical appearance is not got anything to do with her being curvy.. it is because she looks like a thin supermodel. People were hoping they would cast someone with a physicality to them, WoWo should have muscles. Even low rent films like the new Tomb Raider forced the actors to bulk up (check Tomb Raiders six pack in that film)... so WoWo was just a mega disappointment to so many they they basically went with short skinny girl, when she is supposed to be a 6'5 giant muscled warrior. Do not get me wrong she is a good actress and doing a good job, but when most people complain about her appearance they are not talking about boobs and stuff.

Most people were expecting something like this Bridgette Goudz chick. I mean she is a world famous bodybuilder so probably to high a standard, or even to far from attractive norms, depending on your tastes, but they make the men in these films literally transform themselves through bodybuilding techniques to fit sexual ideals, so why not the girls as well when the character requires it. So comic fans were hopeful that they would also force the girls to do this as well for WoWo, instead of just presenting the same exact sexual type as they always have.

 

[JDE]

Coming from someone who actually plays DOA also, I've always have & always will value a warrior look over the fanservice looks. I told some people that I know in the DOA community how I felt about it & some agreed, then of course some didn't. They soon found out whenever they announced the toning down of the "sexiness" (which honestly remains to be seen), & then the soft ban a few years ago.

If you don't believe that it can't hurt the series, then you should ask around or go & start showing videos of gameplay to people then kind of listen to the chatter. It definitely can tarnish its image. However, I don't see anything wrong with fanservice as look as it's not too much.

People from the DOA community often try & compare the fanservice stuff to SFV's fanservice, but the thing is they never advertised their characters to be "sexy". They just added them as bonuses for loyal fans.

Like Kitana's winking win pose in MK9 was actually cool to me. But I've always liked her classic ninja looks from the older MKs. MK vs DC as much as I dislike it as a title, her look was cool in that too. I liked her look in MKX too, but I also thought they could have done better.

Still, as long as they advertise them as true warriors that want to kick ass first then that comes later, a little bit doesn't hurt. Just don't get too wild with it. But it's whatever.

 

[Jynks]

People often try & compare the fanservice stuff to SFV's fanservice, but the thing is they never advertised their characters to be "sexy".

wut?

 

[JDE]

wut?

Meant to put ppl from the DOA community.