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Zangief General Discussion Thread

JJvercetti

JJvercetti

Warrior
So Sagat and G. Not a lot of testing since I havent been able to buy them yet but I have been able to play against them in casual match.
The Sagat match is rough but it is not as bad as I thought it would be
- his heavy attacks seems slow so they are flex bait
- You can headbutt the fireballs but its pretty risky. It does seem that if you are able to headbutt a slow fireball, you can headbutt a fast one straight after but you will get hit if you try to headbutt another medium or fast one.
- I dont think he can cancel his guard break kick so flex that, I think that there is a range where you cannot SPD after but only HP (uncharged)

The G matchup is bloody nuts it seems like he can almost do what he wants.
- It is really hard to VT 1 G's fireball (I havent done it but I think you can) but if you block a fireball, I dont think you can VT the next one if G is doing them one after the other.
- You can flex his flip kick move thing but there is a range where you can flew but you still cannot reach him. I am not sure if it is plus like Abigails flip move where its plus or anything like that.

Also, here is some VT1 level 2 stuff:
 
JJvercetti

JJvercetti

Warrior
I dont know if you guys watch mhike2stronk or follow this guy but he is nuts!!! I thought by watching a few of his compilation videos he was just trolling around but this guys yomi is on another level.
Just look at this sequence:
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
JJvercetti said:
I dont know if you guys watch mhike2stronk or follow this guy but he is nuts!!! I thought by watching a few of his compilation videos he was just trolling around but this guys yomi is on another level.
Just look at this sequence:
Click to expand...
LMFAO! Now we're talking, lol.
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
JJvercetti said:
What kind of changes are you hoping Zangief gets for the next season?
Click to expand...
I'll probably be the only one that answers, lol. Bro, let's go back to season 2. I want a combo that works on EVERY character, I want a poke back, or two, I want some way to play footsies, I want V-Trigger 1 advantage back, and I want to have some avenue to stick to my opponents besides SPD, and I want V-Trigger 2 to last longer (not for whiffs, two is fine, but idle time). Also, give me SOME REASON to continuously use V-Skill. I'll flex all day, and one simple misread and, half your life is gone. You know how that goes, you can flex a big attack, SPD, dash, SPD again, dash, then they wake up jab into throw and have immediately broken all your momentum and done as much damage as you have.

So, what do you want?
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
God this whole fucking sequence...

And how the FUCK does a low attack snipe a JUMP?! You can see me deteriorate immediately afterwards
 
JJvercetti

JJvercetti

Warrior
I agree with your stuff.

Real wishes
- Jab combo or jab chain: this is just basically for consistancy in combos.
- No more universal changes that end up messing around Zangief more: (He is the only character who is directly affected every season)
- Stop buffing Tundra Storm.
- Revert Knee hammer back (mainly for menat matchup)

Stupid wishlist:
- White life taken when using VSkill should build back either 2x as fast or less damage taken. In my opinion, you have already lost the life when you absorb attacks. I also think this cannot even be done, knowing Capcom this rubbish is so hard coded into the game.
- Cancellable RBG or even RBG feints would be fun to mess around with.
- Vtrigger 2 should give oki on a throw that is used in a combo: There will be some other restrictions (but you are already missing on the huge throw damage so why not give an extra benefit to using it.
- In my opinion, crouch jab just needed a hitbox put on the end of the animation which for some reason they left out but they more or less killed it lol.

There is some other stuff but I cant remember but I will put it down when I can.
 
JJvercetti

JJvercetti

Warrior
Man, I dont know what to think about these changes.

Gief Changes.
Standing MP
①Startup increased from 6F to 7F.
②Active frames increased from 2F to 3F.
③Expanded the forward hitbox.
④Recovery increased from 13F to 15F.

Adjustment Description Standing HP (Charge)
Reduced the V-Gauge meter gain from a Crush Counter from 300 to 200.

Standing MK
①Startup increased from 9F to 10F.
②Advantage on hit increased from 0F to +2F.
③Expanded the forward hitbox.

Crouching LP
Reduced the pushback on hit.

Crouching MK
Advantage on hit increased from 0F to +2F.
Crouching HK V-Gauge meter gain from a Crush Counter increased from 100 to 150.

Flying Head Butt
Expanded the hitbox.

L Screw Pile Driver
Damage increased from 180 to 200.

M Screw Pile Driver
Damage increased from 200 to 210.

L Screw Pile Driver (VTrigger II)
①Damage increased from 310 to 330.
②Damage increased from 230 to 280 when used in a combo.

M Screw Pile Driver (VTrigger II)
①Damage increased from 330 to 340.
②Damage increased from 250 to 290 when used in a combo.

H Screw Pile Driver (VTrigger II) Damage increased from 270 to 300 when used in a combo.

EX Screw Pile Driver (VTrigger II) Damage increased from 270 to 300 when used in a combo.

Double Lariat
①Reduced the blowback distance on hit for a grounded opponent.
②If the attack hits on active frames 9F - 11F, the recovery will be reduced by 10F.
③If the attack hits on active frames 9F - 11F, damage increased from 120 to 130.

Iron Muscle (V-Skill)
①Can cancel the button hold into a backwards dash.
②Increased the V-Gauge meter gain on attack hit from 50 to 80.

Iron Muscle (V-Trigger I) (VSkill)
Can cancel the button hold into a backwards dash.

Muscle Explosion (VReversal)
Damage decreased from 60 to 40.

Some of these changes are good but I have saved the best changes for last.

General Adjustments
Adjustment Description
Moves with Armor
①If your character's vitality is reduced to zero, they will be KO'd even if they have white gauge remaining.
②Stun values for opponent attacks that are absorbed by the armor state have been reduced from 100% to 50%.
Invincible Moves that can be Counter-Hit After the Move Ends Among the invincible moves where the counter-hit status continues after the move has ended, for moves that are invincible from 1F, damage dealt during move recovery will be 1.2x that of the normal damage dealt.

Developer Notes: Zangief’s true power lies in getting in close and forcing the opponent to guess whether he’s going to attack or throw, but we felt it was difficult for Zangief to get to that point. As a result, we’ve adjusted each of his medium attacks and his V-Skill, giving him more options for getting in and playing his game.

We’ve also boosted the damage for each of his Screw Pile Drivers during V-Trigger II Cossack Muscle, increasing his damage output per opportunity.

Zangief gets buffed but mostly boned by system changes again.
 
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JJvercetti

JJvercetti

Warrior
Ok reading this again, I think I understand it a bit more. There are no magic pixel comebacks using V Skill but taking 50% less damage using it during the match is much better. It does seem that you recover a lot of health back when doing a successful SPD mixup after using V-Skill.
The pushback decrease on c.lp is huge in a good way, Gief gets more combos especially off of s.mp and It does more damage than his usual BnB
The lariat change is interesting if you hit it on the early frames and dash forward, you are about -1 on quick rise and +4 on backrise.
I cant comment on s.mp much because I havent seen the hitbox.
(I am only looking at the Gief changes on his own so I dont know how it will fare compared to the other characters changes)

One more Lol:
https://twitter.com/DemonDan14/status/1074488924217708544?s=19
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
JJvercetti said:
Ok reading this again, I think I understand it a bit more. There are no magic pixel comebacks using V Skill but taking 50% less damage using it during the match is much better. It does seem that you recover a lot of health back when doing a successful SPD mixup after using V-Skill.
The pushback decrease on c.lp is huge in a good way, Gief gets more combos especially off of s.mp and It does more damage than his usual BnB
The lariat change is interesting if you hit it on the early frames and dash forward, you are about -1 on quick rise and +4 on backrise.
I cant comment on s.mp much because I havent seen the hitbox.
(I am only looking at the Gief changes on his own so I dont know how it will fare compared to the other characters changes)

One more Lol:
https://twitter.com/DemonDan14/status/1074488924217708544?s=19
Click to expand...
LMFAO, god that is so how I felt!

Ok, so after actually having a really good chunk of time to play, I think Zangief is much better. My first impressions, really quickly.
1) We actually have medium buttons! With RANGE! I totally out medium-kicked Karin 3 times in a row the other night because they're used to just abusing us and she couldn't. They're slow moves, but my god, the range.
2) That extra damage adds up, and it adds up a lot.
3) See #2, then couple it with cr Jab not pushing the opponent halfway across the screen after two jabs, and voila! Zangief feels scary again.
4) COSSACK MUSCLE! It's actually worth it to combo into SPD now, where before I would never do it because of the lost damage. Also, LP and MP SPD are fucking nightmarish now. It's beautiful.
5) Flexing into back dash may as well have Zangief yell "NINJA VANISH!" I did this to a player who kept neutral jumping and hitting me in the top of my head. Flex, take hit, back dash, they whiffed a sweep, then I went V-Trigger 2 and FUCKING KILLED THEM for a punish. Sploosh.
6) Zangief can still get absolutely trucked if one of twenty things goes wrong. But what's wrong with that? NOTHING. I just wanted a chance, and I feel like we have way more of one now.

I am very happy. The last time this happened, Capcom fucking nuked Gief from orbit with a tactical Nerf Bomb :(:(:(:mad:
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
ChoseDeath said:
LMFAO, god that is so how I felt!

Ok, so after actually having a really good chunk of time to play, I think Zangief is much better. My first impressions, really quickly.
1) We actually have medium buttons! With RANGE! I totally out medium-kicked Karin 3 times in a row the other night because they're used to just abusing us and she couldn't. They're slow moves, but my god, the range.
2) That extra damage adds up, and it adds up a lot.
3) See #2, then couple it with cr Jab not pushing the opponent halfway across the screen after two jabs, and voila! Zangief feels scary again.
4) COSSACK MUSCLE! It's actually worth it to combo into SPD now, where before I would never do it because of the lost damage. Also, LP and MP SPD are fucking nightmarish now. It's beautiful.
5) Flexing into back dash may as well have Zangief yell "NINJA VANISH!" I did this to a player who kept neutral jumping and hitting me in the top of my head. Flex, take hit, back dash, they whiffed a sweep, then I went V-Trigger 2 and FUCKING KILLED THEM for a punish. Sploosh.
6) Zangief can still get absolutely trucked if one of twenty things goes wrong. But what's wrong with that? NOTHING. I just wanted a chance, and I feel like we have way more of one now.

I am very happy. The last time this happened, Capcom fucking nuked Gief from orbit with a tactical Nerf Bomb :(:(:(:mad:
Click to expand...
ALSO, the changes to Lariat make me jolly in my roger. Like, seriously. Full V-Trigger 1 into dash into new Lariat and massively plus (comparatively). No meter spent for not quite as good of a setup? Sign me up!
 
JJvercetti

JJvercetti

Warrior
I had actually meant to reply back in response to my last vid but I forgot.
Anyways Champion Edition changes:


Ok Rant incoming...
Point 1 on the Standing MP change is what they should have done to Crouch LP instead of all the madness that happened until now.
Rant Over.
Not much to write about in terms of my thoughts on these notes
The increased forward distance is pretty crazy, sneaking into LP SPD range or trying to gain space on characters like Dhalsim or Menat.

V-Skill 2 testing stuff:

-Full charge seems to be about 98 frames
-The uncharged kick is -4 on block but it seems you can space it so you can grab certain limbs with SPD if they try to retaliate, this seems really tough to do.
-It is really easy to whiff punish
-The charged kick guard breaks but I think you cannot SPD the opponent while in this animation.
-Charged kick guard break into VT1 cancel seems to be good for plus frames and gives a mixup attempt if you just do the activation.
-Charged kick guard break into VT2 cancel only seems to be great if you are close, forward dashing after activation only leaves you about +1 (if my calculations are right) in front of the opponent.
-It does seem that you can punish Blankas light ball with the uncharged kick if you armor it.

I honestly did not know what to expect from Capcom going into this and I dd not even think about what I wanted due to this but at least Gief did not get nerfed or drastically changed so I guess that is a bonus.
Balrog matchup will change, if he uses VS2 then we do not have to worry about any overheads in terms of his mixups but we have to hold the pressure if he gets to charge up his dash punch since it is 3 hits and he will be plus.

I do think Capcom should allow you to change VS/VT's after a match but it will take longer to finish the set in casual or ranked.
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
JJvercetti said:
I had actually meant to reply back in response to my last vid but I forgot.
Anyways Champion Edition changes:


Ok Rant incoming...
Point 1 on the Standing MP change is what they should have done to Crouch LP instead of all the madness that happened until now.
Rant Over.
Not much to write about in terms of my thoughts on these notes
The increased forward distance is pretty crazy, sneaking into LP SPD range or trying to gain space on characters like Dhalsim or Menat.

V-Skill 2 testing stuff:

-Full charge seems to be about 98 frames
-The uncharged kick is -4 on block but it seems you can space it so you can grab certain limbs with SPD if they try to retaliate, this seems really tough to do.
-It is really easy to whiff punish
-The charged kick guard breaks but I think you cannot SPD the opponent while in this animation.
-Charged kick guard break into VT1 cancel seems to be good for plus frames and gives a mixup attempt if you just do the activation.
-Charged kick guard break into VT2 cancel only seems to be great if you are close, forward dashing after activation only leaves you about +1 (if my calculations are right) in front of the opponent.
-It does seem that you can punish Blankas light ball with the uncharged kick if you armor it.

I honestly did not know what to expect from Capcom going into this and I dd not even think about what I wanted due to this but at least Gief did not get nerfed or drastically changed so I guess that is a bonus.
Balrog matchup will change, if he uses VS2 then we do not have to worry about any overheads in terms of his mixups but we have to hold the pressure if he gets to charge up his dash punch since it is 3 hits and he will be plus.

I do think Capcom should allow you to change VS/VT's after a match but it will take longer to finish the set in casual or ranked.
Click to expand...
You the man brother. Last time I played this game I got so pissed off I uninstalled it, lol.
 
JJvercetti

JJvercetti

Warrior
ChoseDeath said:
You the man brother. Last time I played this game I got so pissed off I uninstalled it, lol.
Click to expand...
I do feel like this a lot of the time but I do play this to help my friends who like the game more with the Gief matchup. It does look like there is going to be a lot more labbing especially for the bad matchups because they have seemed to get a lot better by first glance but hey, its the Gief life.
 
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