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Dragon Ball FighterZ Discussion Thread (Game)

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
You cannot follow with super dash an already super dashed combo. Just finish it with dragon rush.
It's performed as You hit 5h heavy in the air and the assist button. In this case Frieza. I will give You the video at noon. I cannot do it right now.
i meant doing 5H starter on the ground into frieza assist.
 

BurdaA

Frost-Byte
wait how does frieza assist provide forced swaps from 2h starters? and how does it optimally extend 5h combo's? ive got very few ways of using his assist for combo potential.
Regarding 5H extension, I was talking specifically about Nappa (he can’t get quite as much from 5H midscreen) but I assume there are others.

Midscreen is 5H.sd.MLL.jc.LLL(Frieza)S2H.236S.Super. If you’ve got vegeta/meter allowing you to 5H.lvl3 afterwards the dami and corner carry is nuts. Or you can end with 236M for a free saiba.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
i really hope they leave kid buu mostly alone and don't do something stupid, also what is his huge mix your talking about? what does he have besides 2M~Ball in the corner?
Everything.

If he calls and assist or gets his lockdown special out he can do anything he wants. IAD into delayed j.h into 2L mixed up with just IAD empty 2L is a VERY powerful mix, then you have the fact that Buu can hit an early j.H into J.L into 2L, or more than one j.L , etc and you have a scenario where you simply don't know when the OHs end and the lows begin. Then you have the j.m itself, he can j.L or h out of it,.or let it rock, and done at the right height and wirh the right spacing you can set up the jm into L to cause the L to whiff and Buu to carry to the other side, or just drop right there, and since they see the j.l they are kind of expecting to block two OHs but then you land faster than anticipated and 2L.. oh yeah and literally everything I just said can happen as crossup as well, on top of everything being cancelable into Ball AND you can use his j.s to add even more to all of what I listed below, letting Buu almost build aerial blockstrings of a sort. He can also just machinegun jumping lights. J.lmh etc.

That's all he's got th.. oops! Nope. Or don't IAD at all! Or iad into immediate S because Kid's S stops his momentum when its hit but retains a portion of it after wards, allowing you to setup an S that hits in front and a Kid that lands behind, or in front, setting up more high/low and left/right.. and wait! There's more! His 2S or 5SS cause him to hop very quickly into the air as he fires off the projectile - but he keeps his air options, allowing him to air Dash, or double jump, which opens up the entire mix game I've been detailing, only with different timings, and some new options in terms of how fast he falls or where he puts himself.

With all that extra crap and the fact you simply don't know when/how he's going to string it all together, I've seen high level sets where a Kid does something like a crossup j.h - that's blocked - and drops, but instead of going into a low or blockstring, immediately just 2S'd into the entire situation again without needing an assist because the person trying to block this nonesense has so much to look for and try to deal with that Kid gets mental frame advantage.

Kid has some of the absolute strongest mix in the game off a blocked normal (ie leading into blockstring into assist) and very good options even without the assist - though obviously how you start and such changes significantly, but Kidd can use 5SS to end blockstrings and get himself very quickly into.the air in such a way as to apply all his options. You opponent can hurt you for this, but they have to be on point, its faster than it seems and you can bait and punish them for trying to punish you, by just doing 5S and not the second S, following up to catch them either a) on buttons immediately trying to 2H you or something - which you should easily blow up or b) hesitating to try and react - which will often let you land another normal and restart your blockstring, or back away or just pause a moment and.IAD. awkward timing catches the best players in the world with thier pants down.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
I really don't think any character is going to be bombed, but I'm also new to Arcsys balancing so I guess anything is possible.

Tell you what though, I'm actually looking forward to normalizations to my man Chadhan. Gets old real fast when wins are discredited because hurrdurr top tier. Almost as bad as it was with Catwoman.

This.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Everything.

If he calls and assist or gets his lockdown special out he can do anything he wants. IAD into delayed j.h into 2L mixed up with just IAD empty 2L is a VERY powerful mix, then you have the fact that Buu can hit an early j.H into J.L into 2L, or more than one j.L , etc and you have a scenario where you simply don't know when the OHs end and the lows begin. Then you have the j.m itself, he can j.L or h out of it,.or let it rock, and done at the right height and wirh the right spacing you can set up the jm into L to cause the L to whiff and Buu to carry to the other side, or just drop right there, and since they see the j.l they are kind of expecting to block two OHs but then you land faster than anticipated and 2L.. oh yeah and literally everything I just said can happen as crossup as well, on top of everything being cancelable into Ball AND you can use his j.s to add even more to all of what I listed below, letting Buu almost build aerial blockstrings of a sort. He can also just machinegun jumping lights. J.lmh etc.

That's all he's got th.. oops! Nope. Or don't IAD at all! Or iad into immediate S because Kid's S stops his momentum when its hit but retains a portion of it after wards, allowing you to setup an S that hits in front and a Kid that lands behind, or in front, setting up more high/low and left/right.. and wait! There's more! His 2S or 5SS cause him to hop very quickly into the air as he fires off the projectile - but he keeps his air options, allowing him to air Dash, or double jump, which opens up the entire mix game I've been detailing, only with different timings, and some new options in terms of how fast he falls or where he puts himself.

With all that extra crap and the fact you simply don't know when/how he's going to string it all together, I've seen high level sets where a Kid does something like a crossup j.h - that's blocked - and drops, but instead of going into a low or blockstring, immediately just 2S'd into the entire situation again without needing an assist because the person trying to block this nonesense has so much to look for and try to deal with that Kid gets mental frame advantage.

Kid has some of the absolute strongest mix in the game off a blocked normal (ie leading into blockstring into assist) and very good options even without the assist - though obviously how you start and such changes significantly, but Kidd can use 5SS to end blockstrings and get himself very quickly into.the air in such a way as to apply all his options. You opponent can hurt you for this, but they have to be on point, its faster than it seems and you can bait and punish them for trying to punish you, by just doing 5S and not the second S, following up to catch them either a) on buttons immediately trying to 2H you or something - which you should easily blow up or b) hesitating to try and react - which will often let you land another normal and restart your blockstring, or back away or just pause a moment and.IAD. awkward timing catches the best players in the world with thier pants down.
that is a lot to read and a lot of it im sure is stuff i didnt know about buu, ugh this game :/ im worried ill never get good at it.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Has there been an ETA on Vegito? I wanna play this game again, but only when he drops.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
so can someone add me so i can try an get used to applying some of this stuff in actual matches? i feel like this is gonna take a while, especially with all 3 characters.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
learning characters in this game feels like it takes a lot longer than injustice. theres a lot more nuance to them
Not as bad as you think.

Tl;Dr - Keep. It. Simple.

I feel like you're overcomplicating things for yourself. Learn the universal mechanics and branch when those are second nature and you NEED to in order to win.

I read your status about combos and such earlier.. you don't need to worry about that at all man. If you can do your team's BnBs that's more than enough for a long time.

Concentrate on confirming your hits - ones that land into combos - ones that are blocked into pressure.

Learn your blockstrings and your assist timings on those blockstrings. (Ie at what point in your blockstrings do you call your assist) for coverage to either keep you safe or let you continue pressure.

Practice each of your character's BASIC instant air Dash pressure and mix options. The key here is basic. You saw the huge post I made about shit Kid can do right? Ya know what though? Almost 100% of the time, especially at low and mid levels, you don't need to worry about hardly any of that. @ShArp has some nice stuff in his vids, def watch them, but to start out, and carry you a long way, just learn how to instant air Dash and hit a late j.h into 2L. Just that. The mix is easy, after they've seen you do iad j.h into a grounded 2L, start occasionally not doing the heavy at all, so you empty jumped into a low. You can also Dragon Rush occasionally. That basic mix can be done with almost any character, timed right it's not easy to block at all, then throw a ton of particle effects on screen to make it hard to see, the pressure of the game itself and so on, and you have an excellent, basic way to open people up and familiarize yourself with the ins and outs of basic mindgamed mix pressure.

Don't worry about complex shit and setups. The IAD mix stuff Im talking about? Do it when you have an assist keeping the opponent locked down, or off a knockdown with a splat. That's it for now.

Again, the mantra here is 'keep things simple'. It sounds like you're getting frustrated at losses - which is totally understandable - but if your losing at the lower/entry levels of play then it's not because you don't have the crazy combos you saw HookGangGod or ChrisG do in tournament and it's not because you didn't 2S into a high j.m into a forced whiff j.L into empty low with Kid. It's very likely because your missing confirms, failing to turn stray hits into damage/oki and blocked hits into pressure. Not getting those knockdowns means you aren't getting Oki pressure and not getting those blockstrings means you aren't getting your basic mix options off.

The thing is, you are probably (this is just a guess) going into matches with your head whirling with all this stuff you think you have to be doing, and the guy your playing is just sitting on his couch screaming SUPERRRR DAASHHHHHHH into the empty air, making zooming noises occasionally and mashing L all the time while laughing maniacally at nothing in particular. He might be drooling slightly. His TV may not even be on. He's winning though, and it's not because he's better than you, or because you don't know a double assist, lv1 sparking, 5 bar combo.. it's because you're playing an entirely different game to the reality in front of you. You're hung up on this complicated stuff and worrying about landing this crazy setup off this Go1 blockstring, and you...oops, you got a stray hit there but didn't convert.. or shit, you forgot to call an assist towards the end of that blockstring and your opponent got away/punished you/etc.

Ive made several assumptions in this post and I hope I haven't offended or totally missed the mark.. and I'm not saying this "from on high" looking down from my lofty skill perch, I'm a weak player.. a lot of this advice is coming straight from my understanding of my own issues and weaknesses and my own struggles as a player. I'm not trying to superimpose you into myself and assume we're the same, but a lot of what youve said has made me think you're putting the cart before the horse here, and worrying about complex, difficult stuff before laying the foundations that stuff is built on.

Eventually you start to internalize the basics. Every time you touch your opponent you smoothly roll into a blockstring..every time the situation permits to snap off an IAD into basic pressure. Every time you open someone up, you smoothly transition into a solid combo. Every time you need your assists for one thing or another, you're calling them in instinctually.. this is where you start building advanced skills.. because chances are, if you get to this level, you will be winning, climbing into higher tiers of competition. Bad, new or weak players will be easy. But you'll start running into guys that that do beat you, because they can block your basic mix and deal with your basic blockstrings and basic assist useage. When this starts happening, you adapt, you start adding layers to your game... And before you might even realize it, your banging out all the wild shit you see done by pros and you're sitting well above most players.

You don't necessarily have to watch your matches - in the BEGINNING I don't think it's that helpful because early on it should be obvious where you're struggling and what you're doing wrong, and getting too analytical breaks the keep it simple mantra we need to establish.. but when you do lose, try to at least think of why.. and ALWAYS try to blame yourself. Even if the guy is literally just smashing his forehead on the buttons and it's totally random, try to blame yourself and say 'what beat me'. Write it down and when you see a pattern, try to take steps to fix it.. but keep this part -.for now, light and simple.

I know, I've typed a book here and all on my own, you dldidnt ask for my advice and you may not want it.. but I see your posts and I can feel your frustrations, and I got to typing this all out.. so I'm sorry if this wasn't warranted or something like that, I just thought I'd share what advice I felt I had to give.

I am by no means a good player, but I'm not blind or dumb and I can make observations and draw logical conclusions... so if you'd like, you can PM me some match footage and I can take a look and make some suggestions? I've done this for a handful of people on this site in a few different games.



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EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
One other thing.. Everyone learns differently and everyone has different approaches to problems. Getting advice from the perspective of a better player, to counterpoint mine, is a good idea. See what they say and what they recommend and draw your own conclusions from there.

Something Ive noticed for myself, when I talk to other players and get advice or opinions, sometimes the way a very strong player looks at the game and how you learn/level up/etc is very different and that difference may mesh better with you.

For me, I learn best by "centrating" and that means centering on one aspect of what I'm trying to learn at a time, and basically revolving my entire game around that aspect for a while. I might change that aspect every session, but when I sit down to play, I try to have a very definite focus - to the exclusion of other things. What happens with me, if after a while, I stop focusing on whatever it is Ive been working on, because it starts becoming second nature. It gets so I dont HAVE to focus on converting this or that, or properly landing this or that, or AAing, blah blah.

My buddy is the opposite. He can sit down in practice mode for a couple hours and practice a blockstring or a setup or whatever, and then, by and large, thats it. he's got it forever.. So when he plays, he's looking at and working on multiple aspects. He'll get on me because Im not DHCing properly or I should have done this or that, etc, but that's just not how I learn. If he tried my method, he'd stagnate and it wouldnt work well for him, and when I try his method, I just get overwhelmed and fall short on all aspects.
 

Osagri

Fear the blade of Osh-Tekk
but when you do lose, try to at least think of why.. and ALWAYS try to blame yourself. Even if the guy is literally just smashing his forehead on the buttons and it's totally random, try to blame yourself and say 'what beat me'. Write it down and when you see a pattern, try to take steps to fix it..
This. It took me a long time to realized that its my fault if I cant get around something(zoning, spaceing, pressure etc). I was always like "spamming bitch noob". When I started to play scv competitevely I adopted this mentality, and it has made me a better player. Now days I hate the Word "spam" coz in fighting games, why would u not do things that work constantly and ur opponent cant get around it?
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
Is the online still ass? Don't care about the dlc or patches only improvements to online.

Sent from my Silicon Valley North Waterloo using Test Your Might mobile app
Its not as bad as before. Although....its still bad with lobby disconnects, but Ring Matches have greatly improved, and the disconnection rate in the middle of matches have decreased. But the state of the game is quite bland, with less ppl playing, especially ranked. Forget that shit. BUT with this new update revamping everything, it should bring new life to the game.