Menu
By:
Filters
What's new

Dragon Ball FighterZ Discussion Thread (Game)

JBeezYBabY

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
freerf245 said:
5H or his AA grab
Click to expand...
THANK YOU! Advance players will use the AA grab, but the scrubby scrubs will use the 5H. The safest route to count is simply block and wait for that super dash to 2H. GUARANTEED they do superdash RIGHT AFTER either of those options to stay mobile
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Why not start with 5h? It's not scrubby, it's smart. Assist coverage makes it safe and armor beats a button. Lots of reasons to start with 5H as 16. Air grab is riskier, though still safe in a lot of ways since he can just grab his way to safety among other things.

Fox also didn't discover 16.. no shade to Fox, but he was sort of generally discovered by most everyone. Fox discovered Hit though. Everything anyone does on Hit, Fox paved the way and Hit's strength is only recognized because of Fox.

I've stated before that I don't want nerfs, but there are a couple characters that are a little hard to justify because there is no reason not to choose them..take Cell for instance. The ONLY reason you don't have Cell on your team is because you don't want to. Tactically there is absolutely no reason not to bring him. He does everything everyone else does, most of it better and the rest at least as effectively. That's just one example.. but in the grand scheme of balance it's a lot easier to lightly nerf a couple characters and lightly buff a couple characters than to try and buff the entire cast to operate on the level of a small handful of characters.

Edit : I'm not trying to sound like a dick with the 16 stuff. Just observation.
 
S

Sultani

Warrior
JBeezYBabY said:
When it comes to 16, its funny ever since SonicFox discovered his sick setups, EVERYBODY is doing the EXACT same shit! Well, at least try to....

When somebody starts off the match at 16, 90% of the time they will start with 5H. Tell me im lying!
Click to expand...
You're lying.

Sonicfox didnt discover anything. People just saw him doing it so they think he invented it.... again.

It was so damn funny. I started day one using 16 and doing hkd setups and huge combos. stopped playing this game for like a week.. came back and then everyone is complaining about 16.

You can react to any of the hkd setups like a damn flow chart. I can honestly say that i've never been hit by a setup after hkd from 16. It's almost never a guess unless the followup is an assist into like a 6M or 2m mixup, but that's not a 16 thing. That's everyone. If you want to spend a bar you get out free, and whats wrong with that? If people want meterless guaranteed universal wakeup options, thats probably not going to happen. 16 is way different than something like adult gohan where you basically just cant do anything.

16s issues in my opinion arent really directly related to hkd setups... his problem is that 5H is basically an mk9 prepatch kung lao spin with armor and like 5 times the range. It needs reduced pushback and more recovery if its gonna have armor.

Not gonna pretend 16 isnt stupid good. Because he is. Just dont complain about him if you are using any of the other 4 or 5 characters that are just as stupid.

Like... "its not ok that a character is dumb unless hes dumb for the same reasons that my stupid character is dumb."

About cell... you wouldnt need to put him on your team if your team was any combination of adult gohan, goku black, trunks, hit, 16, piccolo, and possibly more.
 
Last edited:
S

Sultani

Warrior
JBeezYBabY said:
THANK YOU! Advance players will use the AA grab, but the scrubby scrubs will use the 5H. The safest route to count is simply block and wait for that super dash to 2H. GUARANTEED they do superdash RIGHT AFTER either of those options to stay mobile
Click to expand...
Nope. 5H then 5L and blow you up for trying to counter hit after 5H pushes you out of range. Or 5H assist dragon rush.
 
Last edited:
JBeezYBabY

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
EntropicByDesign said:
Why not start with 5h? It's not scrubby, it's smart. Assist coverage makes it safe and armor beats a button. Lots of reasons to start with 5H as 16. Air grab is riskier, though still safe in a lot of ways since he can just grab his way to safety among other things.

Fox also didn't discover 16.. no shade to Fox, but he was sort of generally discovered by most everyone. Fox discovered Hit though. Everything anyone does on Hit, Fox paved the way and Hit's strength is only recognized because of Fox.

I've stated before that I don't want nerfs, but there are a couple characters that are a little hard to justify because there is no reason not to choose them..take Cell for instance. The ONLY reason you don't have Cell on your team is because you don't want to. Tactically there is absolutely no reason not to bring him. He does everything everyone else does, most of it better and the rest at least as effectively. That's just one example.. but in the grand scheme of balance it's a lot easier to lightly nerf a couple characters and lightly buff a couple characters than to try and buff the entire cast to operate on the level of a small handful of characters.

Edit : I'm not trying to sound like a dick with the 16 stuff. Just observation.
Click to expand...
It does become scrubby when its hella predictable now.

Ok i get it. Fox didnt invent those setups. My point is, he made them popular by dominating with them. So ever since then, EVERYBODY is trying to emulate that 16 monster.
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
JBeezYBabY said:
It does become scrubby when its hella predictable now.

Ok i get it. Fox didnt invent those setups. My point is, he made them popular by dominating with them. So ever since then, EVERYBODY is trying to emulate that 16 monster.
Click to expand...

Anything becomes scrubby if its spammed, AA grab or 5H or whatever. Hell, round start into just blocking is scrubby if its predictable. Shrug. I'm not trying to be a dick, or argue for the sake of it, just counter-pointing some opinions.
 
S

Sultani

Warrior
EntropicByDesign said:
Why not start with 5h? It's not scrubby, it's smart. Assist coverage makes it safe and armor beats a button. Lots of reasons to start with 5H as 16. Air grab is riskier, though still safe in a lot of ways since he can just grab his way to safety among other things.

Fox also didn't discover 16.. no shade to Fox, but he was sort of generally discovered by most everyone. Fox discovered Hit though. Everything anyone does on Hit, Fox paved the way and Hit's strength is only recognized because of Fox.

I've stated before that I don't want nerfs, but there are a couple characters that are a little hard to justify because there is no reason not to choose them..take Cell for instance. The ONLY reason you don't have Cell on your team is because you don't want to. Tactically there is absolutely no reason not to bring him. He does everything everyone else does, most of it better and the rest at least as effectively. That's just one example.. but in the grand scheme of balance it's a lot easier to lightly nerf a couple characters and lightly buff a couple characters than to try and buff the entire cast to operate on the level of a small handful of characters.

Edit : I'm not trying to sound like a dick with the 16 stuff. Just observation.
Click to expand...
5H starter gets beat by quite a bit. Jump SD beats it. Assist and block reverses pressure. Starting with a tag beats it. And more. I almost never start with that. Jump back and assist and then see how they react is better. If they just blocked anticipating 5h, the i air dash forward into overhead using my assist cover. Not a whole lot about playing 16 is as braindead as people think it is. If it was, you'd see way more good ones. Been playing this game for this long and have only ever played one other 16 that knew how to use him
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Sultani said:
5H starter gets beat by quite a bit. Jump SD beats it. Assist and block reverses pressure. Starting with a tag beats it. And more. I almost never start with that. Jump back and assist and then see how they react is better. If they just blocked anticipating 5h, the i air dash forward into overhead using my assist cover. Not a whole lot about playing 16 is as braindead as people think it is. If it was, you'd see way more good ones. Been playing this game for this long and have only ever played one other 16 that knew how to use him
Click to expand...

But it also beats quite a lot, is my point. You can cover yourself and beat a lot of what random opponents do. I'm not speaking of long set play with someone, but random ranked insanity. Even even in long set play, its a valid opening when used sparingly and correctly. Like any opening, you're either making a read, or just throwing something out and seeing what happens. I didnt say starting with 5H was the only, or best, way to open, or that it was perfect. It's just a strong option.

I never said, or meant to imply, that playing 16 is braindead, or that you played him that way. No character played at a high level is braindead because that doesn't work vs good players. The issue with 16 is that he can be played braindead and get by with a lot and when played intelligently, by good players, he's even stronger.
 
S

Sultani

Warrior
JBeezYBabY said:
It does become scrubby when its hella predictable now.

Ok i get it. Fox didnt invent those setups. My point is, he made them popular by dominating with them. So ever since then, EVERYBODY is trying to emulate that 16 monster.
Click to expand...
No they aren't.... there's not that many good 16 players... at least in my experience i hardly ever see him. And 16 players that are using him like that arent using him like that because of sonicfox. They were already doing that. Its just another one of those things where people think everyone is copying a good player because their first exposure to a tactic was by seeing it on a stream. Nothing i do with 16 has anything to do with sonicfox.

People call out players for trying to mimic top players all the time in the fgc when they shouldnt. Its nothing new, but it has always been frustrating.

Winning tournaments in mk9 with mileena... then reo plays her at evo and then everyone starts telling me im just trying to copy reo.

Point is... 16 mains were already doing that way before YOU saw it on a stream. That wasnt new tech to anyone..

Honestly.... sonicfox is responsible for popularizing iad cross overs as an option for hkd oki in an arksys game? Lol ok.
 
Last edited:
S

Sultani

Warrior
EntropicByDesign said:
But it also beats quite a lot, is my point. You can cover yourself and beat a lot of what random opponents do. I'm not speaking of long set play with someone, but random ranked insanity. Even even in long set play, its a valid opening when used sparingly and correctly. Like any opening, you're either making a read, or just throwing something out and seeing what happens. I didnt say starting with 5H was the only, or best, way to open, or that it was perfect. It's just a strong option.

I never said, or meant to imply, that playing 16 is braindead, or that you played him that way. No character played at a high level is braindead because that doesn't work vs good players. The issue with 16 is that he can be played braindead and get by with a lot and when played intelligently, by good players, he's even stronger.
Click to expand...
Yep. It made it sound like 5H was a super safe choice all the time. Obs not what you meant.
 
BurdaA

BurdaA

Frost-Byte
“NAPPA: Fixed a bug that makes Saibamen collide with the opponent character and sometimes interrupts the latter’s attacks.”

I’m nervous...

I really hope they haven’t stopped saiba getting you out of trouble... nailing a setup where saiba covers risky stuff is one of the most fun things about this char.
 
S

Sultani

Warrior
BurdaA said:
“NAPPA: Fixed a bug that makes Saibamen collide with the opponent character and sometimes interrupts the latter’s attacks.”

I’m nervous...

I really hope they haven’t stopped saiba getting you out of trouble... nailing a setup where saiba covers risky stuff is one of the most fun things about this char.
Click to expand...
Right? Isnt that like... what they are for?
 
BurdaA

BurdaA

Frost-Byte
Sultani said:
Right? Isnt that like... what they are for?
Click to expand...
I know, right! If you take the patch note literally they’re basically decorative, so who knows....

They’re a decent neutral threat. People are desperate to get them off screen, love punishing such attempts....

They can also extend mid combo for big dami with the right assists.

They also create some great pressure/mix, in the corner it’s legit.

My fear/suspicion is that they will now go away when Nappa is hit :(

Not like he needs a nerf....
 
Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Sultani said:
Context matters yeah. So it's not that he struggles. It's just that comparatively there's a drop off from 1 to 0 where it doesnt really make alot of sense to gimp yourself like that if you don't have to. Makes sense.


But even then, with the comparison to other characters not having to deal with that, it's like having an incomplete diamond when other characters have complete gumballs. He's still better than most.
Click to expand...
Yeah I was never arguing lvl 0 A.Gohan wasn’t good. I don’t even like talking about tiers anymore. I was speaking about my team and the effectiveness of A.Gohan on point, I feel he’s better utilized not on point.

This isn’t necessarily directed towards you, but people focus way too much on tiers. I even have been guilty of this myself. It actually is kinda pointless to put so much stock into tiers and/or tier lists. I don’t care what Arcsys decides to do buff/nerf wise, whatever decisions they make I’ll accept them and adapt. No point in worrying about it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.