Cyborg buffs recommendation

[da800don]

I really hope NRS reads this particular thread. Sometimes I feel like Cyborg is an unwanted child or something. lol They pay him absolutely no mind, atleast, thats how I feel. I recollect playing ranked sets today and I think I did well today. However, I feel like I have to try super duper hard to get a W. Like why do I have to blister my fingers and fry my brain just play a match? I mean, I get that its a strategy game at its core, and counter picking is a good strategy, but why do I feel like Cyborgs tools and options arent viable enough to give the person who is playing him an inkling of confidence on wake ups? NRS is great, and I feel like they do listen to their fans and customers. Well NRS, can you turn your ears over here to the Cyborg community? We'd like to be adopted back into the family.

-800don

 

[Carl]

Give cyborg a mid command grab?! Holy hell you guys have to be kidding me..

The only thing I think that really holds cyborg back is that he has no easy combo damage, I think it would help if they gave him an additional wakeup with powerfist. Cyborg deserves to have a tricky wakeup game, it fits the character.

See the problem is the people playing cyborg think he needs a mid command grab because they don't understand cyborgs design. If you think cyborg needs a mid command grab wakeup, you need to pick a new character. Please show humility tym, I know it's hard..

Humility? Do you main him in the first place?
Humility is asking for a mid command grab and not a power fist that launch.
Mid command grab is perfect as the grab now has no real use when its a high.

 

[Carl]

If they want to give power fist as a wakeup then no problem ill take it.
But a high command grab with barely invincibility frames is just horrible.
Also fix b1 range too feels bland at the moment.

 

[just_2swift]

A mid command grab would help compensate for his poor range on his normals. That sweet spot in footsies that every character in the game occupies but cyborg. With this he can fight back mentally in the footsie game. On top of that it's not even that threatening on hit as it does 93.60 dmg non MB on supes I believe.

 

[God Confirm]

Give cyborg a mid command grab?! Holy hell you guys have to be kidding me..

The only thing I think that really holds cyborg back is that he has no easy combo damage, I think it would help if they gave him an additional wakeup with powerfist. Cyborg deserves to have a tricky wakeup game, it fits the character.

See the problem is the people playing cyborg think he needs a mid command grab because they don't understand cyborgs design. If you think cyborg needs a mid command grab wakeup, you need to pick a new character. Please show humility tym, I know it's hard..

as it stands, it's the closest thing he has to a wake up, it doesnt have first frame invincibility and is easily stuffable, it whiffs on crouches or lowprofiling buttons/openers, whiffs on airborne attacks or jump ins and neutral jumps, and whiffs on certain dash ins, and when it whiffs it whiffs FOREVER. The problem with making it mid is not that it would be a hard to deal with wake up attack, but that it would give him tick throws off some shit which probably be too much.

 

[4x4lo8o]

I dunno if Techno Tackle should be a mid or fully invincible or what they should do with it, but the problem with it is it basically functions as a low - a shitty low that doesn't hit anybody jumping or doing anything grab immune(which for some characters is most of their move list) - and Cyborg doesn't need a low. He has a faster one that leads to pressure or a combo and he has no effective overheads to make them want to block high. On top of that it's super punishable, it doesn't lead to anything(no combo, not much damage, no crazy setups), it's reactable, and it doesn't even to chip damage. It's just not a good move


I don't really think power fist should be an invincible wake up. In IGAU everybody had crazy wake ups and even crazier knockdown set ups so it was necessary. But in this game lots of characters don't have any true invincible wake ups, plus Power Fist now leads to a combo. I think it would be too good - it would be terrifying for some characters to press buttons after knocking Cyborg down. I get as salty as anyone else when I'm getting bullied after a knockdown and can't manage to get up, but an invincible power fist isn't the answer. Maybe they should just make Techno Tackle more/fully invincible. It's easier to bait and punish or blow up with something other than just blocking and isn't as threatening to get hit by, but it would give Cyborg an option against mindless wake up pressure.


I don't know that Cyborg necessarily needs buffs. IMO he's in the bottom half of the cast, but he's not in a terrible place. I certainly don't think we should be making "Buff Cyborg!!!1!" threads

Can't cyborg wake up with his grapple since it has armor? I never see anyone do it, but isn't that another wakeup option aside from techno tackle?

Grapple is not a wake up. If they're doing meaty attacks as you get up you can't do a grapple, you'll get hit. I think it might be the only special in the game(other than airbourne ones I guess) that just isn't a wake up.

 

[just_2swift]

as it stands, it's the closest thing he has to a wake up, it doesnt have first frame invincibility and is easily stuffable, it whiffs on crouches or lowprofiling buttons/openers, whiffs on airborne attacks or jump ins and neutral jumps, and whiffs on certain dash ins, and when it whiffs it whiffs FOREVER. The problem with making it mid is not that it would be a hard to deal with wake up attack, but that it would give him tick throws off some shit which probably be too much.

A tic throw into 93dmg isn't over powered considering he has no mix up game what so ever yes it would open doors for more layers of yomi but it would be healthy for the character overall.

 

[just_2swift]

His tics are 1 11 d2 d1?

all are the stubbest things in the game lol

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Sad but true
We rarely have options, asking them to be viable is too much lol

Jax was top tier most of MKX's life, Jacqui was way up there, stop that shit

 

[God Confirm]

Jax was top tier most of MKX's life, Jacqui was way up there, stop that shit

cyrax got the D tho and Jax was left the worst character in the game

 

[Dankster Morgan]

cyrax got the D tho and Jax was left the worst character in the game

True, but I mean it's not like they're all "let's make the black characters unviable". It's like if I complained about Chinese representation because of the issues Sub-Zero has in this game

 

[God Confirm]

True, but I mean it's not like they're all "let's make the black characters unviable". It's like if I complained about Chinese representation because of the issues Sub-Zero has in this game

i think its just a meme

 

[HiddenSelectCounterPick]

F22 is a hkd and so is techno tackle

F22 will only allow you to zone no follow up it pushes them too far away, techno tackle after its done.. there isn't mush you can follow up with either hkds are supposed to give you some type of advantage only in the corner does f22 work but the recover doesn't help for follow up

 

[Wetdoba]

F22 will only allow you to zone no follow up it pushes them too far away, techno tackle after its done.. there isn't mush you can follow up with either hkds are supposed to give you some type of advantage only in the corner does f22 work but the recover doesn't help for follow up

The only follow up i need midscreen is meaty downward fireball which F22 gets you. I dont really end in techno tackle tho unless i meterburn it for more advantage and damage. But once they respect the meaty fireball it lets you set up missles next time because they hesitate. Its not like im using the hkd to go in midscreen, i just like knowing they have to stay in that spot while I try to set up my zoning momentum

 

[DubiousShenron]

F22 will only allow you to zone no follow up it pushes them too far away, techno tackle after its done.. there isn't mush you can follow up with either hkds are supposed to give you some type of advantage only in the corner does f22 work but the recover doesn't help for follow up

The only follow up i need midscreen is meaty downward fireball which F22 gets you. I dont really end in techno tackle tho unless i meterburn it for more advantage and damage. But once they respect the meaty fireball it lets you set up missles next time because they hesitate. Its not like im using the hkd to go in midscreen, i just like knowing they have to stay in that spot while I try to set up my zoning momentum

I think he either needs grappling hook leniency, grappling hook to function properly as a wakeup or wakeup powerfist to push him over the edge into A tier. Either These changes I've listed or easier ways to score combo damage would certainly boost his up gameplay up to speed. I think these would be good tools in MUs where he needs help or easier ways to score damage.

Thoughts cyborg players?

 

[esc1]

Power fist should be a more viable wakeup.. also allow MB on block

 

[just_2swift]

I think he either needs grappling hook leniency, grappling hook to function properly as a wakeup or wakeup powerfist to push him over the edge into A tier. Either These changes I've listed or easier ways to score combo damage would certainly boost his up gameplay up to speed. I think these would be good tools in MUs where he needs help or easier ways to score damage.

Thoughts cyborg players?

Grapple hook is fine. As a wake up he doesn't need it. If anything the armor doesn't proc consistently and at times it's random. This needs to be addressed.

B123 changed to a hard knockdown.

Command grab to be mid.

You want to score more dmg? Allow him to nova blast cancel hit confirm combos

Like for example b12 NBDC 12b2 pf MB f2 into set up.

After what was removed from the character from igau this isn't asking for much.

No solid hard knockdown to set up? B123 baby. Check

Horrible limbs to challenge? Mid command grab to compensate.
Check

Slight damage increase without juicing him up? Nova cancels.
Check

Now cyborg is in a better place without affecting his winning mu's and allows him to compete in his rough one's.

 

[DubiousShenron]

Power fist should be a more viable wakeup.. also allow MB on block

Grapple hook is fine. As a wake up he doesn't need it. If anything the armor doesn't proc consistently and at times it's random. This needs to be addressed.

B123 changed to a hard knockdown.

Command grab to be mid.

You want to score more dmg? Allow him to nova blast cancel hit confirm combos

Like for example b12 NBDC 12b2 pf MB f2 into set up.

After what was removed from the character from igau this isn't asking for much.

No solid hard knockdown to set up? B123 baby. Check

Horrible limbs to challenge? Mid command grab to compensate.
Check

Slight damage increase without juicing him up? Nova cancels.
Check

Now cyborg is in a better place without affecting his winning mu's and allows him to compete in his rough one's.

I agree with everything but mid command grab, it doesn't fit the character archetype.

 

[just_2swift]

I agree with everything but mid command grab, it doesn't fit the character archetype.

He doesn't have your average command grab in terms of Oki and advantage to press your opponent.

It does little dmg (93.60) and reset the positions of both players in neutral this applies midscreen and corner. and puts cyborg where he wants to be as he rolls backwards after it.

 

[Wetdoba]

He doesn't have your average command grab

It does little dmg (93.60) and reset the positions of both players in neutral this applies midscreen and corner. and puts cyborg where he wants to be as he rolls backwards after it.

But when combined with trait and missles would give him unblockables into full combo for no meter and a dumb tick throw game which would be too good. I agree on making b123 a hkd and something like nova cancel confirns though for damage. Then just make techno tackle a mid but blockable so he has a mid hitting wake up

 

[DubiousShenron]

He doesn't have your average command grab

It does little dmg (93.60) and reset the positions of both players in neutral this applies midscreen and corner. and puts cyborg where he wants to be as he rolls backwards after it.

That's actually a fantastic point. Maybe he does deserve it if the risk/reward isn't in line with a traditional command grab.

 

[just_2swift]

But when combined with trait and missles would give him unblockables into full combo for no meter and a dumb tick throw game which would be too good. I agree on making b123 a hkd and something like nova cancel confirns though for damage. Then just make techno tackle a mid but blockable so he has a mid hitting wake up

There is no Mix up for an unblockable to occur unless you're talking about the advantage of trait or TA missile's into command grab on block which can't happen because you can't command grab during block stun.

 

[Wetdoba]

There is no Mix up for an unblockable to occur unless you're talking about the advantage of trait or TA missile's into command grab on block which can't happen because you can't command grab during block stun.

You cant grab them out of block stun but you can right after. The mix would be unblockable frame trap or jailing button and that button would now be confirmable into full combo with nova cancels.

Im also assuming if he did something like b123 xx TA as an ender he could then techno tacjle them onto the missle into a full combo

 

[just_2swift]

You cant grab them out of block stun but you can right after. The mix would be unblockable frame trap or jailing button and that button would now be confirmable into full combo with nova cancels.

Im also assuming if he did something like b123 xx TA as an ender he could then techno tacjle them onto the missle into a full combo

Where will the unblockable occur? Also what's wrong with being rewarded for your opponent pressing buttons when you're at advantage off a situation you have to set up off of a punish more likely because he has no mix up. There is push block and other options out of his TA set ups. Also he can't tackle after 123 TA ender as he's too far for tackle to be followed up and raw b123 TA into tackle won't work and can be blown to bits by neutral jump.

 

[Wetdoba]

Where will the unblockable occur? Also what's wrong with being rewarded for your opponent pressing buttons when you're at advantage off a situation you have to set up off of a punish more likely because he has no mix up. There is push block and other options out of his TA set ups. Also he can't tackle after 123 TA ender as he's too far for tackle to be followed up and raw b123 TA into tackle won't work and can be blown to bits by neutral jump.

Unblockable right after the block stun ends on missle or trait. Any blocked missle or trait would then be a 50-50 between button or grab with 1 option being a safe confirmable launcher

The B123 xx TA thing would be corner only