Tekken 7 General Discussion Thread - OP Updated With All Tekken Info

[Eddy Wang]

Played lots of TTT2 today had tons of fun with Kunimitsu, i didn't new she had a safe launcher on df2, abused the shit out it. Played a really heavy pressure game and even if i did played with pad it was super fun at all levels. Man this character thas to be in T7, she is so awesome.

@Smoke_Of_Finland, i tested Jin with that tech of 1+2 out of zen after the second hit of bf23 hits them crouching in TTT2 and if they try to crouch block or neutral crouch it, they get launched, but they can still stand block it.

F4~zen 1+2 can be neutral crouched on hit even on T7FR like you said, CBM did a mistake there, but CDS3 its a safe option out of zen now, so gotta look out for those trying to bait the Zen launcher or crouch block CD4.

 

[XCVIIDarkTruth]

5 weeks left before I can finally use my beautiful main again (Miguel) <3 I'm so happy he made it, too bad my precious Ogre with his serpent arm didn't make it...

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I informed my usual sparring buddy that the stream was ongoing yesterday, then he suggested we start playing TTT2 so I missed it, but I just watched the archived footage from where I left off.

It was some beautifully executed keepout. IMO The most important aspect of the game which is movement, was used to beat the 2nd most important, which is poking. Just do safe moves that control space often enough to keep the opponent honest so they won't run up low/run up throw you into knockdowns and mix you up to death, take the initiative here and there but don't try to "stay in the pocket" indefinitely. I think it was this that led to Elemental Deity's success rather than busting out a new character, as he didn't really use any wonky strings or gimmicks, just solid keep-out play.

Sometimes when you initiate a hit/block sequence or after you've scored a knockdown, the best thing to do is move/block for long enough to see if buttons are pressed and then proceed to take your turn or just start backdashing. Elemental Deity used this type of off-rhytm technique defensively to bait buttons and it worked out beautifully. However none of the others adapted to this level of meta and instead wanted to just slug it out, do everything straight out of block/hitstun and flowchart pokes/mix-ups and only rely on reads/blocks/crush system for defence and play as little neutral as possible.

The poking oriented, flowchart heavy style works nicely and especially with Roo Kang and his Bob as long as the opponent also wants to slug it out. It's easier to execute and very compact, but him and none of the others wanted to adapt to Deity's excessive backdashing by looking to set up running 3's from their pokes by using the same off-rhytm technique, as in just use + frames to implement move/block to look for an opening to punish retaliatory moves, if nothing comes out then instant running 3 or a poke to regain frames or initiative. Sooner or later, the opponent has their back to the wall and they are forced to fight back eventually. Depending on the character you also gain an uninterruptable command low attack attempt because of the stiff frame advantage of running 3 which is between +8 to +9 (+4 is required to make generic i12 d4 uninterruptible, as in it can not be hop kicked)

When you have + frames, it is very unlikely that the opponent will low/throw to retaliate. The usual attack responses if there is one, are either fast attacks or unsafe moves such as hop kicks and other crush moves, armor or backsway/evasive moves. You are taking no risk to possibly have access to the same reward as you would be if you were hellbent on going on the offensive whenever you are at +, you can actually kinda half-dash forward after having running 3 blocked and block everything the opponent can throw at you. Only risk in doing this is that your opponent could duck for a short while or hold back for a short while then stick out a launcher because he doesn't know what is going on and instead of guessing he wants to play on his terms. This can potentially catch you.

This type of offensive style of occasionally dropping your + frames is immensely strenuous psychologically. There is just no way to know when someone is going to flowchart or when he is not going to use his frame advantage if both are mixed up properly. it is harder to execute but if you are good enough then it is more powerful than pure rushdown. It will do wonders in not getting your lows/throws ducked or hop kicked when you choose to use them.

 

[Kooron Nation]

What's the general consensus on Lee?
Always loved using him as a kid and since I plan to get into T7 competitively, was curious on his strengths and flaws?

@Smoke_Of_Finland @Eddy Wang @exflyingbooty @SaltShaker @Azarashi Elder

 

[Azarashi Elder]

I'm interested in playing Lee as well, and I'll be just as interested as @Kooron Nation here, to know your thoughts.

Personally, I see a lot of Marshall Law in him. They both practice "Jeet Kune Do" which means they both have flip kicks in this series. Lee doesn't do it nearly as often as L:aw though. They both have slides. They both have punch parries, but Lee has a "Hitman" stance, which is unique to him. The stance intrigues me, as it's somewhat low to the ground, but it isn't AOP, so I doubt it has as much evasion and low-profiling as Xiaoyu's claim to fame. However, it's one of the reasons why I'm interested in using him as a main, but I'm not 100% sold.

I've watched a number of YouTube videos on Lee, and I'll say this: He's hard to master. His wall carry and combo potential is really good, but to unlock that, you have to master the Mist Step. "Mist Step" is an advancing crouch dash, and he has a couple of options out of it. The best wall carry option (that I'm aware of) is B2. the Step itself is performed by hitting forward, then allowing your pad or stick to return to neutral. Going from forward, to neutral, to back plus 2 doesn't sound hard, but I've fooled around with it in Tag 2 and I can tell you, the timing is very, very strict.

I think the key to playing him, as a beginner, is to master the small amount of combos you can do reliably at the start, and then grind Mist Step corner carry stuff until you get it. In short; I doubt Lee is for a beginner, but if you're determined to play him, go for it.

 

[exflyingbooty]

What's the general consensus on Lee?
Always loved using him as a kid and since I plan to get into T7 competitively, was curious on his strengths and flaws?

@Smoke_Of_Finland @Eddy Wang @exflyingbooty @SaltShaker @Azarashi Elder

I think lee is good, i just can't remember how to deal with him atm

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Lee is an excellent (see what I did there hurdurdur) bulldog and has some stupid tracking properties. His jab string 1,2 tracks steps to his right and the mist step transition has only a small gap. 2,2 is unsafe at -13 but if you are on point you can hit confirm the 2nd hit on counter into 2,2,3 for massive damage. his generic df1 tracks to his left, his df2 tracks to right. Some of the tracking properties he has are stupid, angle and character specific but all in all he is really hard to step at close range when played properly.

HMS = hitman stance, it doesn't low profile in case you were wondering, it just moves backwards and you can sidestep in this stance, the moves out of it are solid. Lee can transition into it from numerous pokes and strings. B4 is a stupid keep out tool (safe mid, CH launch, hitbox stays active forever, quick recovery) where you have to be really close to punish it, basically when you see someone move forward just b4-hms in anticipation and they can't touch you. Getting around this move is paramount in beating Lee and at lower levels of play you can abuse the absolute crap out of it without ever getting punished. People start to anticipate and respect it too much and you can just slide from half a screen away trolololol. Not only that but he also has his 4,4 which is one of the few i11 magic 4's. And yeah, he has the extremely annoying slide similar to Law and Shaheen. They nerfed his running 3,4 to not launching but it's advantage on block now. he has got decent punishment and some of the HMS transitions from his pokes can be used to get the opponent to whiff pokes that you can easily punish with HMS 2, (df4 into HMS, then watch for the whiff for example). He doesn't really excel in doing a lot of damage outside of combos when he hits you but he can keep you locked down and be extremely annoying with his fast poking game and CH tools.

I think Lee has an advantage over Paul, Jack and most likely he is going to have an advantage over Gigas as well. They can't keep him out, they can't keep him in check and they are going to get picked apart. Lee is solid mid or high mid tier (debatable) and he is a very "meta" character. He is decent against Capos, Leo and Ling as well.

 

[Kooron Nation]

@Smoke_Of_Finland @Azarashi Elder @exflyingbooty thanks for response guys, all the information is really useful.
Catch me online with these mist steps into b4 HMS

 

[Eddy Wang]

Lee is a character with some good keep out tools and an "excellent" CH heavy game.
He has moves that transitions into HMS making him hard to whiff punish (fuck you B4 HMS), and he has some really good CH games up close, so you want to keep them out and launch or you want to stay in and pummel as much as possible. He also has one of the best wall carry juggles among the ones like Nina and Lars.

Be wary tho, when facing patient players he is difficult to get a comeback since his fastest way to get huge damage is by CH too mostly.

Lee is somewhat like Kunimitsu in some parts, while Kuni can still keep you out even if she has a weak keep out game, her CH game and her whiff punish damage is so strong that makes up for her lack of good lows and followups.

Lee is kinda the same except thhat he has better lows and much better pokes to get the job done, but Kuni has a safe launcher for huge damage.

 

[Kooron Nation]

@Azarashi Elder @Eddy Wang @Smoke_Of_Finland
Thank you so much for the info.
So from my understanding of all the info you've given me, Lee plays a good defensive/zoning type game?
And CH means = Counter Hit correct?
So I'm guessing his main game plan is to kind of annoy the opponent and make them impatient to bait whiff punishes and sidestrep tracking moves? But lacks against likeminded players as he doesn't have many offensive options?

 

[Eddy Wang]

@Azarashi Elder @Eddy Wang @Smoke_Of_Finland
Thank you so much for the info.
So from my understanding of all the info you've given me, Lee plays a good defensive/zoning type game?
And CH means = Counter Hit correct?
So I'm guessing his main game plan is to kind of annoy the opponent and make them impatient to bait whiff punishes and sidestrep tracking moves? But lacks against likeminded players as he doesn't have many offensive options?

He has to play either keep out with his B4 or he can play up close, lee has a lot of pokes with good CH up close such as his 223 which is insafe as Smoke mentione, many of his moves transition in HMS as well, and he has a WR34 that is good enough to put him into that position to initiate offense as well, a new buff given to his WR34 is now that the move itself can transition into HMS as well while being plus on block, though the bound this move used to offer was nerfed, if you get hit by it, it just causes a knockdown, though on the wall break stage still going to be ultra huge.

But if his Whiff punish game is bad, his homings are slow, he is more about Counter Hits than really whiff punishment, just like Heihachi and Kunimitsu are, though they have better whiff punish tools compared to him. Its why i said, on patient players Lee is hard to take life lead or make a comeback because he lacks good whiff punishing tools in general, its nothing impressive.

And yes CH means counter hit, we angolans have a sound resulted from putting these to words together, its like "TCH" or like when Jin says "Chiuuu" but without the vocals, so when someone says launches on CH we never read Counter Hit, we just read "CH" and automatically we know its Counter Hit.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

@Azarashi Elder @Eddy Wang @Smoke_Of_Finland
Thank you so much for the info.
So from my understanding of all the info you've given me, Lee plays a good defensive/zoning type game?
And CH means = Counter Hit correct?
So I'm guessing his main game plan is to kind of annoy the opponent and make them impatient to bait whiff punishes and sidestrep tracking moves? But lacks against likeminded players as he doesn't have many offensive options?

No, Lee is about poke pressure and lockdown. He can slug it out with anybody in the cast. Get in, stay in, gather information about your opponent by poking and make the right read to capitalize on their defensive patterns. Against overly defensive players you want to look for slides and try to set them up in ways you can't be hop kicked. People who respect frames and delayable strings too much you can easily slide and mix-up into a quick KO. Using movement by itself is ineffective as you have to set up whiffs by having pokes blocked rather than using movement alone to get launch punish opportunities. His i10-i15 moves are great and he has plenty of options, his i16+ moves are lackluster with the exception of b4, fF3's primary use is wall splatting, fF4 is half decent CH launching high you can chuck out every now and then, running 3,4 is good, but still your risk reward is better if you stay inside slide range.

Edit: My sparring buddy mains Lee and I've played against this character probably the most. He has stated that without b4 Lee's neutral game would be total dookie. Fighting GM is probably the Lee player whose matches you want to look up. He is one of the more succesful Lee players in the US scene and has won numerous tournaments. There are not a lot of Koreans or Japanese players who main Lee, although HelpMe comes to mind.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Collector's Edition preordered and unfortunately already paid for.

If those Swedish speaking clowns in Aland screw up my order and I am forced to file a reclamation I am going to go there and Electric Wind God Fist them in the ass in real life before filing my reclamation . I'll be surprised if I get the box on the actual release date, most important thing would be to get the statue and everything else in one piece.

 

[TarkatanDentist]

I'm of mixed minds about whether to get Tekken 7 immediately on release or not.

Why oh why did its release have to be so close to that of Injustice 2?

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

You won't want to miss the day 1 public lobbies with Akumas and Elizas throwing projectiles and casuals complaining about what is perfectly normal to 2D fighting game players. It's going to be comedy gold. I am going to pick up Devil Jin just to see if I can outzone these types with lasers. I think I am gonna start learning how to make and edit videos for Youtube. Possibly create a timeless classic such as this one here

 

[Kooron Nation]

You won't want to miss the day 1 public lobbies with Akumas and Elizas throwing projectiles and casuals complaining about what is perfectly normal to 2D fighting game players. It's going to be comedy gold. I am going to pick up Devil Jin just to see if I can outzone these types with lasers. I think I am gonna start learning how to make and edit videos for Youtube. Possibly create a timeless classic such as this one here

Hahahahaha that's one of the best things I've seen.
I could imagine you could get some mad Yoshimitsu gimmicks on day 1 casuals with unblockable swords

 

[TarkatanDentist]

You won't want to miss the day 1 public lobbies with Akumas and Elizas throwing projectiles and casuals complaining about what is perfectly normal to 2D fighting game players. It's going to be comedy gold. I am going to pick up Devil Jin just to see if I can outzone these types with lasers. I think I am gonna start learning how to make and edit videos for Youtube. Possibly create a timeless classic such as this one here

Thank you for outlining all the reasons not to buy the game on release day lol.

Seriously though, there's no way I'd be going straight to online mode. It's been so long since I've played Tekken that it'll be a minimum of a week before I feel comfortable going online without getting slaughtered.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Hahahahaha that's one of the best things I've seen.
I could imagine you could get some mad Yoshimitsu gimmicks on day 1 casuals with unblockable swords

Day 1 Yoshi is all about those 10 hit combos lololol. Heihachi has df1,1 into df2+3 throw loop, Dragunov has b4,2,1 loop aaaand.... I dunno, I think Dragunov kills the fastest. Basically his b4,2,1 is an i15 mid-mid-high. Last hit is +4 on block, but since casuals won't be ducking it and the entire string is guaranteed on counterhit you can mash it repeatedly until they panic, start mashing and die. You can probably reach green ranks by doing nothing but garbage like this .

Edit. Oh wait I read the frame data wrong... or the frame data IS wrong on RB Norway. I am pretty sure you can't jab yourself out of a Dragunov mashing b4,2,1 even if you block it. I gotta go and test it one day. I've just seen videos of people winning ranked matches by doing nothing but that string.

2nd edit: yeah the string is only +4 and i15 so it's possible to jab out of it. Halp pls #BuffDragunov

3rd Edit: Oh man how could I have forgotten about Yoshi's db3 series, once you block any of the low hits they jail and you have to mash your ws4 when you are blocking to interrupt the mid from coming out and at the same time you'll punish the low. You can wallsplat the unwary with the mid all day 'erry day at will. Bryan gets full launch with ws3 if he CH's the mid btw. Bryan is also great for cheesing with his lows, his df1-series and jab strings, b1, bB4 and orbital heel. Just stick out u4 instead of uf4 version of the Orbital to use it similarly to Lee's b4.

 

[TheGangstaFace]

There's gonna be a tekken 7 stream at 6pm Est on www.twitch.tv/tekken talking about updates to the game I suppose. That's what it says on twitter. I'm gonna check it out

 

[Eddy Wang]

Just wanted to let you guys know we're close, really looking forward to main this boy again, his fundamentals pays off greatly this time that is impossible to pass.

There are moments Chikurin establishes his dominance in screen control over his opponents that he is allowed to dash block freely without wave dash in the opponent's face, its glorious.

please stay like this on release.

 

[Azarashi Elder]

There's gonna be a tekken 7 stream at 6pm Est on www.twitch.tv/tekken talking about updates to the game I suppose. That's what it says on twitter. I'm gonna check it out

Appreciate the heads up, and I did tune in right after you posted. But after a few minutes of them talking about the content and modes I'm like, "Nah... They're preaching to the choir, here. I'm buying this game anyway."

So then I left and fell asleep. ::Shrugs::

 

[SaltShaker]

There were a lot of people there playing and waiting for next and stuff. My Josie is too good lol.

Needless to say, I'll be working late because I got back late. Wanted to try some stuff out but ended up winning 72 straight with Josie before I had to leave lol. I'll try tomorrow.

Damn DAMN. That streak. The memories of the tasteee. Y'all be ready, it's almost time.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Damn DAMN. That streak. The memories of the tasteee. Y'all be ready, it's almost time.

can't wait man...

 

[Azarashi Elder]

Alright fight fans...

The Tekken UK Championship is headed to Birmingham! The tournament takes place on Saturday, May 6th, at 09:00 hours UTC (convert to your local time) and it runs until 17:00 UTC if necessary. This is in association with the Electronic Dojo, and the venue will be at 'The Studio', in the second-largest British city! Entry is FREE for all who can attend, and the rest of us can watch, on the bandainamcoeurope twitch channel!

Details here: https://www.electronicdojo.co.uk/?portfolio=tekken-7-uk-championship

 

[Eddy Wang]

Fergus has shared a pre-release tier list based on the lastest played build (The Eddy Gordo's build)

It seems, as @SaltShaker also mentioned previously Fergus also agrees Xiaoyu is stupid dumb to be on a tier on her own, and also Jin being S tier, though i think Heihachi also deserves that spot.

The few characters who i don't agree much on their placements are, Leo, who i think is just as strong as Xiaoyu and Hwoarang/Heihachi who i think are just as strong as the S Tiers