PLAYING TO WIN
Champion
EDIT:
In this thread we had two things confirmed from NRS. Delay wakeup and that the MB roll is throwable. Thank you to colt and 16 bit for weighing in!!! See this type of communication from NRS really made a lot of people happy.
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The beta is out and some people have it, some people do not. Thank the LORD I was finally able to get a code
My initial impression is that this is a mix btw injustice 1 and MKX. I love the injustice series more than any other game I have played including SF.
Since it was announced, I have been tremendously concerned about the MB roll and what that does to zoning/pace control. Some of my fears were confirmed in my initial session with the beta. I am not sure the risk/reward is intact here. Remarkably, the MB dash/roll can also be used defensively. I have some suggestions on how to balance it a bit while making it serve its purpose to casual/tournament players.
My initial concerns were "they added a run button to injustice". I like the pace/speed of injustice 1 so adding a mechanic such as this was not favorable for my style of play. Many of the veterans cringed when they saw this. Imagine zoning in injustice 1if this mechanic existed. If sinestro tossed a fear blast and someone guessed it with the MB roll... they would get a full combo punish from full screen. Basically, everyone would have had batgirls teleport. Imagine lex with this mechanic.
Some of my fear was a result of seeing the recovery of the MB roll. In the previous game play trailers, it appeared to recover extremely fast and this has now been confirmed in the Beta. It has very few frames of recovery from the end animation of the roll. You can easily test this by doing the MB roll then holding up. It is the closest thing to a run button I can possibly imagine.
Risk reward does not appear to be intact in that for one bar you either fully punish a projectile from full screen or safely close the distance without fear of punishment. Disclaimer here that I was not able to test it as well as I would have liked, specifically its physical damage inv.
I will acknowledge the move can be used defensively in that you can escape corners if you were able to create a little space. It could possibly add depth to a character like aquaman's already great defense and give him a free way out of the corner in addition to a grounded combo breaker and now air teching (in injustice 1 a strategy was to launch aqua so he couldn't aqua shield). There is potential that it could help aquaman style play/defense but hurt traditional zoning.
What we know. Would like @REO to weigh in here as well.
- cost one bar
- just just under full screen
- little to no recovery
- the MB does not start until the end of a dash animation so you can still punish the dash/startup prior to the roll.
- cannot be used as a wake up
- appears to be fully projectile invincible
- its physical damage invincibility has not been full tested yet. hearing different things at this point
- when done at the right ranges it can cause attempted check/punishes to face the wrong way bc the MB roll crossing you up
- possible ways to deal with it could be to neutral jump if you think it is coming or buffer d1 to a special it the roll ends up not having physical damage inv
My major suggestions are to make the roll cost two bars, not be throw inv and/or have some recovery. Thinking about the purpose of the move (i think i am in the devs head here but I could be wrong) it is designed to help novice players get passed zoning and to speed up game play. In novice play the added recovery will not likely have a huge effect of outcomes. Keeping the purpose of the move in mind, it should stay as a way to punish zoning. If done pre-emptively/read or on reaction (see super man jump, MB roll, punish his air laser example) but if the zoner baits it out he should get a check, throw or punish... similar to the balance of batgirls teleport. In my opinion the most fun fighting games are ones that allow different character archetypes to shine. By balancing the MB roll a bit, that can help keep variable play styles in the top 8s. I do not want the roll to be bad but I do want to be able to punish it if I read it is coming.
Summery of suggestions:
- cost two bars
and/or
- not throw inv, possibly widen the throwable hurt box during the roll
and/or
- add some recovery
and/or
- slow the speed of the roll
In this thread we had two things confirmed from NRS. Delay wakeup and that the MB roll is throwable. Thank you to colt and 16 bit for weighing in!!! See this type of communication from NRS really made a lot of people happy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The beta is out and some people have it, some people do not. Thank the LORD I was finally able to get a code
My initial impression is that this is a mix btw injustice 1 and MKX. I love the injustice series more than any other game I have played including SF.Since it was announced, I have been tremendously concerned about the MB roll and what that does to zoning/pace control. Some of my fears were confirmed in my initial session with the beta. I am not sure the risk/reward is intact here. Remarkably, the MB dash/roll can also be used defensively. I have some suggestions on how to balance it a bit while making it serve its purpose to casual/tournament players.
My initial concerns were "they added a run button to injustice". I like the pace/speed of injustice 1 so adding a mechanic such as this was not favorable for my style of play. Many of the veterans cringed when they saw this. Imagine zoning in injustice 1if this mechanic existed. If sinestro tossed a fear blast and someone guessed it with the MB roll... they would get a full combo punish from full screen. Basically, everyone would have had batgirls teleport. Imagine lex with this mechanic.
Some of my fear was a result of seeing the recovery of the MB roll. In the previous game play trailers, it appeared to recover extremely fast and this has now been confirmed in the Beta. It has very few frames of recovery from the end animation of the roll. You can easily test this by doing the MB roll then holding up. It is the closest thing to a run button I can possibly imagine.
Risk reward does not appear to be intact in that for one bar you either fully punish a projectile from full screen or safely close the distance without fear of punishment. Disclaimer here that I was not able to test it as well as I would have liked, specifically its physical damage inv.
I will acknowledge the move can be used defensively in that you can escape corners if you were able to create a little space. It could possibly add depth to a character like aquaman's already great defense and give him a free way out of the corner in addition to a grounded combo breaker and now air teching (in injustice 1 a strategy was to launch aqua so he couldn't aqua shield). There is potential that it could help aquaman style play/defense but hurt traditional zoning.
What we know. Would like @REO to weigh in here as well.
- cost one bar
- just just under full screen
- little to no recovery
- the MB does not start until the end of a dash animation so you can still punish the dash/startup prior to the roll.
- cannot be used as a wake up
- appears to be fully projectile invincible
- its physical damage invincibility has not been full tested yet. hearing different things at this point
- when done at the right ranges it can cause attempted check/punishes to face the wrong way bc the MB roll crossing you up
- possible ways to deal with it could be to neutral jump if you think it is coming or buffer d1 to a special it the roll ends up not having physical damage inv
My major suggestions are to make the roll cost two bars, not be throw inv and/or have some recovery. Thinking about the purpose of the move (i think i am in the devs head here but I could be wrong) it is designed to help novice players get passed zoning and to speed up game play. In novice play the added recovery will not likely have a huge effect of outcomes. Keeping the purpose of the move in mind, it should stay as a way to punish zoning. If done pre-emptively/read or on reaction (see super man jump, MB roll, punish his air laser example) but if the zoner baits it out he should get a check, throw or punish... similar to the balance of batgirls teleport. In my opinion the most fun fighting games are ones that allow different character archetypes to shine. By balancing the MB roll a bit, that can help keep variable play styles in the top 8s. I do not want the roll to be bad but I do want to be able to punish it if I read it is coming.
Summery of suggestions:
- cost two bars
and/or
- not throw inv, possibly widen the throwable hurt box during the roll
and/or
- add some recovery
and/or
- slow the speed of the roll
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, and setting up the server filters couldn't have been a small task in such short order.
