My current Top 10 in Mortal Kombat XL

[SaSSolino]

No

Yes

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Yes

Why in your opinion is Cryo busted?

 

[SaSSolino]

Why in your opinion is Cryo busted?

You could have said no again, we could have gone on and on for hours... too bad.

Seriously though, he has endless mixups, good damage, ends everything in an hard knockdown, great mobility and for the love of god that ji1. Besides command grabs that lead to full combo just shouldn't exist.

Then, why in your opinion is Cryo not busted?

 

[SylverRye]

Why is Possessed top 10?

I haven't seen any reasons besides "Tweedy can't be doing well with a character that isn't busted".

Low demon is as if not more reactable than Scorpion's F4. His counterpoking is probably the worst in MKX with a D1 that gets low profiled and his fastest usable mid being 13 frames. He makes up for that in busted armor, but does that really make him top 10? Imo he's top 15 at most atm. It's not like anyone is gonna prove otherwise either. EVERY Kenshi signed up yesterday. Just because I make top 8, doesn't mean that the character is broke. Maybe i'm just good at the video game?

Heavy ping, if the other player doesn't know the match, etc, make the character stronger, but I don't feel like this is unique to Possessed. It's not like anyone in this community labs. Look at 90% of Hayatei's tournament runs since Canada Cup 2015. No one knows the Ronin match ups besides like the top 10-12 players at majors. Same goes for Possessed. Those people even tell me that the character is INCREDIBLY overrated.

Balanced imo is almost as good as Possessed.

I agree. Watching some people fight possessed, its like nobody labs the match up.. And then complain that its top 5 broken this and that. There are options for everything he does, if people spent time in the lab they would find this out.

 

[SylverRye]

so so juicy

even juicier and imo not true at all. what's good about possessed
-busted armor
-busten teleport pressure
what's good about balanced? i don't play him or fight any good balanced post patch

You can d2, armor, backdash (some characters can low profile or low poke) any tele cancel minus 42 tele and 421 tele. 42 and 421 u can armor and backdash and some characters can still low profile it. How is it broken? Lab man.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

You could have said no again, we could have gone on and on for hours... too bad.

Seriously though, he has endless mixups, good damage, ends everything in an hard knockdown, great mobility and for the love of god that ji1. Besides command grabs that lead to full combo just shouldn't exist.

Then, why in your opinion is Cryo not busted?

Do you know the option select for the tick throws? The command grab risk/reward will never be in Sub-Zero's favor regardless of it launching or not. The damage is nothing out of the ordinary. Ji1 is fucked up admittedly. His neutral and footsies outside of D4 is mediocre at best. Sub relies on the klone to take neutral out of the equation because that's his biggest flaw. He's a good character don't take this the wrong way but he's definitely not top tier.

 

[Gofer_MK]

Balanced's gameplan should revolve around mid range footsies, staggering at +2 or -1 rather than cancelling into something, hit confirming 421, lots of throws, shimmies, etc.

Just read the Kenshi general discussion. They're too obsessed with trying to zone and cancelling into something. They'd rather cancel into push and be -10, than just stagger 421 or B1 and be +2/-1.

They want Balanced to be something that it's not. It's cool to be mad at the character's design, but that doesn't make the character bad.

I play Kenjutsu like that, with the occasional 50/50, and throwing people left and right with Tele-Toss. It is fun.

 

[D7X]

Finally someone who agrees displacer is top 5.

 

[SylverRye]

But really though B2 is a free overhead basically because anyone with half a brain is always blocking low, everyone except Ermac and Mileena get bodied by jump kicks, he has a safe 2 hit "pathetic" armor attack.

Lius air game is not good tbh. B2 is a free af mixup that u can hit 3-4 times before people catch on (and then you can get them with f44). His armor is not pathetic but its nothing great. 2 hits of armor and safe is awesome. But u can literally mash low poke and low profile it or njp it. I cant allow liu downplay to commence. But i cant stand by and watch upplay either lol. Hes in my top 10 free though.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Lius air game is not good tbh. B2 is a free af mixup that u can hit 3-4 times before people catch on (and then you can get them with f44). His armor is not pathetic but its nothing great. 2 hits of armor and safe is awesome. But u can literally mash low poke and low profile it or njp it. I cant allow liu downplay to commence. But i cant stand by and watch upplay either lol. Hes in my top 10 free though.

His air game isn't good but his D2 is one of the best in the game and it shouldn't be listed as a con ever

 

[ismael4790]

I like how Tweedy says Balanced is almost as good as Possessed and then everyone is like "lol ok sure thing bro" and then he's asked to explain why and gives some valid points and then everyone is like "lol ok sure" again. Where are the counter arguments at? I'm honestly inclined to believe Tweedy at his word on this, I've seen his Kenshi, he knows the character.

By all means though please post a counter argument to what has been said instead of just saying "lol anyone who thinks balanced is good is braindead".

He knows possessed, not Balanced. But he likes to talk no matter if he knows what he's talking about or not, as many tym members.

First point was raw damage, which is kinda obvious and pretty much only true good point the variation has. Might as well said he has combos lol.

Push argument is very weak. Possessed push startup is significantly faster, to the point it has to be respected on knockdown in many situations by the opponent. Try waking up with Balanced meterless push. On block possessed push is -11 with annoying blockstun. Balanced is -10 now, no true difference. Balanced push is better on whiff recovery, whereas Possessed push vertical hitbox is much better for antiairing jumps.
So saying Balanced push is "better" is a simplistic and wrong approach.

Thing is, if you visit Kenshi forums, there have been many conversations detailing which are Balanced's blatant flaws and how to solve them by people that actually use this variation. It's kind of annoying that people (specially people that has not played the variation nowhere near to 1,5 years like Pig, Immortal, myself and some others, grinding every single matchup and trying to actually make it work exploring every way of playing it) come here and tell things like "hey guys, balanced is good, you have to use him well". Like...no. At this point in the game, you better have something good to show, or keep your mouth shout. Kenshi players have put up with enough bullshit in mkx patches to be eager to hear more bullshit.

 

[SylverRye]

His air game isn't good but his D2 is one of the best in the game and it shouldn't be listed as a con ever

I agree.. ever... EVER. That d2 is God. Also his d3 is ridiculous as well. Can low profile a ton of things even jump ins. Plus his walk speed is insane so trip guards and shimmies are easy. Yeah that d2 downplay is gross lol

 

[D7X]

Also, where's pred?

 

[Immortal]

Balanced's gameplan should revolve around mid range footsies, staggering at +2 or -1 rather than cancelling into something, hit confirming 421, lots of throws, shimmies, etc.

Just read the Kenshi general discussion. They're too obsessed with trying to zone and cancelling into something. They'd rather cancel into push and be -10, than just stagger 421 or B1 and be +2/-1.

They want Balanced to be something that it's not. It's cool to be mad at the character's design, but that doesn't make the character bad.

This is wrong on so many levels.

Nobody is even talking about Balanced Kenshi zoning anymore, coz there is nothing to talk about. Its bad, situational at best.

The problem with Balanced Kenshi is the fact his core tools are mediocre at best and that variations adds to it almost nothing beside EX Push.

His 4,2(1) string is slow as fuck and starts with high in a game where many characters have advancing strings (with gaps but nobody cares about them anymore) as fast as 7-9 frames. B1 is okish coz its -1 on block, other then that nothing to write home about, pretty slow (13f) and there is no way anybody gonna hit confirm it, not to mention its not a true mid (althou thats a common thing).

His poking game is just abysmal (Kenshi in general) and his backdash... what backdash?

There is no mind games vs Balanced Kenshi, block low, tech throws and bully him on oki usually baiting EX Push which is easy to jump over and even if blocked does nothing for him.

Balanced Kenshi is like Kenshi without any variation really, the only thing worth mentioning that it adds is again EX Push.

There is pletora of characters/variations in the game which are better by miles in mid range / neutral then Balanced Kenshi that's the reality.

I agree with you thou that Possessed is vastly overrated but i disagree with the statement that Balanced Kenshi is almost as good as Possessed. The last one at least has usable overhead and godlike armor + teleport gimmick. Balanced only have mediocre / bad core Kenshi moves (which all variation have obviously) + EX Push.

 

[SpecOps2013]

This is wrong on so many levels.

Nobody is even talking about Balanced Kenshi zoning anymore, coz there is nothing to talk about. Its bad, situational at best.

The problem with Balanced Kenshi is the fact his core tools are mediocre at best and that variations adds to it almost nothing beside EX Push.

His 4,2(1) string is slow as fuck and starts with high in a game where many characters have advancing strings (with gaps but nobody cares about them anymore) as fast as 7-9 frames. B1 is okish coz its -1 on block, other then that nothing to write home about, pretty slow (13f) and there is no way anybody gonna hit confirm it, not to mention its not a true mid (althou thats a common thing).

His poking game is just abysmal (Kenshi in general) and his backdash... what backdash?

There is no mind games vs Balanced Kenshi, block low, tech throws and bully him on oki usually baiting EX Push which is easy to jump over and even if blocked does nothing for him.

Balanced Kenshi is like Kenshi without any variation really, the only thing worth mentioning that it adds is again EX Push.

There is pletora of characters/variations in the game which are better by miles in mid range / neutral then Balanced Kenshi that's the reality.

I agree with you thou that Possessed is vastly overrated but i disagree with the statement that Balanced Kenshi is almost as good as Possessed. The last one at least has usable overhead and godlike armor + teleport gimmick. Balanced only have mediocre / bad core Kenshi moves (which all variation have obviously) + EX Push.

Pretty much my opinion on Kenshi as a whole.

 

[Zionix]

This is wrong on so many levels.

Nobody is even talking about Balanced Kenshi zoning anymore, coz there is nothing to talk about. Its bad, situational at best.

The problem with Balanced Kenshi is the fact his core tools are mediocre at best and that variations adds to it almost nothing beside EX Push.

His 4,2(1) string is slow as fuck and starts with high in a game where many characters have advancing strings (with gaps but nobody cares about them anymore) as fast as 7-9 frames. B1 is okish coz its -1 on block, other then that nothing to write home about, pretty slow (13f) and there is no way anybody gonna hit confirm it, not to mention its not a true mid (althou thats a common thing).

His poking game is just abysmal (Kenshi in general) and his backdash... what backdash?

There is no mind games vs Balanced Kenshi, block low, tech throws and bully him on oki usually baiting EX Push which is easy to jump over and even if blocked does nothing for him.

Balanced Kenshi is like Kenshi without any variation really, the only thing worth mentioning that it adds is again EX Push.

There is pletora of characters/variations in the game which are better by miles in mid range / neutral then Balanced Kenshi that's the reality.

I agree with you thou that Possessed is vastly overrated but i disagree with the statement that Balanced Kenshi is almost as good as Possessed. The last one at least has usable overhead and godlike armor + teleport gimmick. Balanced only have mediocre / bad core Kenshi moves (which all variation have obviously) + EX Push.

This is some serious downplay here.

B1 is "okay" lol and his poking is abysmal?

421 is a bad string now?

Nobody can zone in this game, even pyro tanya has to rushdown when she can. Balanced can zone well enough for MKX

We're in a game where Mystic ermac is struggling to make top 10, some characters are going to be just worse. Balanced Kenshi, isn't top 10, but you make it sound like has no useful tools at all. This isn't the case and Tw33dy is just trying to point out that possessed is a solid variation and balanced isn't too far behind it. I see no problem with this statement.

 

[ragnar0kz28]

Decided to do a tier list for this version of MKX. Enjoy.

*Top 5 is in Order*

1. Shinnok (Imposter)

2. Triborg (Smoke)

3. Jason (Relentless/ Unstoppable)

4. Jacqui Briggs (Full Auto)

5. Raiden (Displacer)

*Not in Order*

6. Ermac

7. Tanya

8. Scorpion

9. Mileena

10. Sub Zero

I like it, I would put both smoke and sektor in number 2 and switch kitana with scorpion and it would be perfect.

 

[Immortal]

This is some serious downplay here.

B1 is "okay" lol and his poking is abysmal?

421 is a bad string now?

Nobody can zone in this game, even pyro tanya has to rushdown when she can. Balanced can zone well enough for MKX

We're in a game where Mystic ermac is struggling to make top 10, some characters are going to be just worse. Balanced Kenshi, isn't top 10, but you make it sound like has no useful tools at all. This isn't the case and Tw33dy is just trying to point out that possessed is a solid variation and balanced isn't too far behind it. I see no problem with this statement.

First of all i didnt say 4,2,1 is a bad string don't put words in my mouth i said its slow, coz it is. And i gave reasons for that as well.

B1 is decent nothing more. 13F startup is really nothing to write home about. -1 on block is the best thing about it.

Kenshi poking game is bad and Tweedy said the same i just agree with him. Read his statement above.

There is no downplaying here. Possessed isn't even top 10 imo and Balanced is behind him, imo far behind not close like Tweedy said but everybody is entitled to their opinion.

Like i said many times - looking forward to the day somebody gonna pick up Balanced and prove me wrong but sadly as we approach EOL for MK XL its becoming more and more unlikely.

 

[Wigy]

No clue why nobody talks about dragon fire for top 10 contender.

 

[Zionix]

First of all i didnt say 4,2,1 is a bad string don't put words in my mouth i said its slow, coz it is. And i gave reasons for that as well.

B1 is decent nothing more. 13F startup is really nothing to write home about. -1 on block is the best thing about it.

Kenshi poking game is bad and Tweedy said the same i just agree with him. Read his statement above.

There is no downplaying here. Possessed isn't even top 10 imo and Balanced is behind him, imo far behind not close like Tweedy said but everybody is entitled to their opinion.

Like i said many times - looking forward to the day somebody gonna pick up Balanced and prove me wrong but sadly as we approach EOL for MK XL its becoming more and more unlikely.

You implied it was bad by using the reason that is it slow. B1 super solid, I don't even see how it is 'decent' but it gets the job done for what it's used for.

I understand that you want to make sure people are educated, understand balanced, his toolkit, his strength within the roster and share your opinion based on this. However MKX doesn't have the player base at the highest level to show a lot of the roster at their fullest potential.

If we had a bigger competitive community, I'm sure there would be more characters floating about; which in turn would inspire others to achieve similar feats.

Hellfire, is a character that if no top player ever picked up, would be deemed mid tier and not tournament viable. He requires a hell of alot of work and execution and he isn't played the same as what he was a year ago. You wouldn't sleep on him in your pool though; otherwise the mop would hit you hard.

 

[Zionix]

No clue why nobody talks about dragon fire for top 10 contender.

Careful that guy who said he was done with TYM, for reason unknown, is still on TYM.

Mystery

 

[ismael4790]

@Zionix Balanced is one of those variations that when you look at it on paper, it seems decent. Myself, back in 2015 before starting using it, thought "it can't be that bad". Well, it turns out that it is. You need to use a lot of gimmicks and do a tremendous upplay of his tools to be successful. When you change to another character after playing Balanced, it feels like a totally different game, everything is easier. And let's not forget that he has been one of the most hurted variations by armor launchers removal in the entire game, there is no debate here. Exrk was his best move and main reason to pick him over the other two variations.

Also, the fact that the vast majority of players have an almost complete lack of matchup experience vs this variation makes people overestimate it very often.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Everyone claiming Sub is a Top 10 character, but yet no one wants to play him.

It'd be interesting to see more people pick him up and validate their opinions of where they think he is.

 

[RevetLeafing]

I like it, I would put both smoke and sektor in number 2 and switch kitana with scorpion and it would be perfect.

Interesting, I along with everyone else was sure that Kitana would be top 10 after the October 4th Patch, but now that game has adjusted, it's very easy to say that she is not top 10, now this doesn't mean she isn't good, just look at Tremor, Reptile, Liu, etc. I think Sektor tagging along with Smoke is very debatable because I just don't see the big fuss over Sektor. Tbh it all started when Sonic put him in his top 5.

 

[Zionix]

Interesting, I along with everyone else was sure that Kitana would be top 10 after the October 4th Patch, but now that game has adjusted, it's very easy to say that she is not top 10, now this doesn't mean she isn't good, just look at Tremor, Reptile, Liu, etc. I think Sektor tagging along with Smoke is very debatable because I just don't see the big fuss over Sektor. Tbh it all started when Sonic put him in his top 5.

I'm more interested, in how you don't think sektor is top 5? For me, Sektor is stronger than smoke.

If you lab smoke a lot of his stuff just isn't real, they have counters. In a real match its hard to put into practice. He is top 5 for sure, no question but he can be beaten.

Sektor has a lot less holes, can end strings in straight rockets, straight rocket is HKD. Can burn a bar to have homing rocket keep the pressure up, mind games with up missiles. Anti airing him is nigh impossible, teleport is awkward to punish and usually requires a read. He has numerous options off his mid string. Ex straight rockets for more pressure.