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Zangief General Discussion Thread

Johnny Based Cage

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
ChoseDeath said:
I think it's 5-5, but cr MP is hard to deal with. My experience is whomever gets the offense going first wins because neither have great defense.
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JJvercetti said:
I think it is 5-5 but some say Alex beats him. Alex's best bet is to whiff punish and poke Gief until knockdown then go ham.
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Thanks for the input, guys. I feel like Gief can spd those slow ass long limbs of Alex from anywhere anytime, but I'm sure I just need to get better. And I definitely don't feel like I can go ham on knockdown, especially if he has a bar.

TBH, it seems even regular SPD's let alone the grab immune EX ones beat my oki powerbombs - or worse yet, hyperbombs - that are already mid-animation all the time. Probably just need to work on my timing there too but fuck if that shit isn't frustrating.

EDIT:

JJvercetti said:
EDIT:
Here is one long ass video about the Alex - Gief Matchup.
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Oh damn, I so need to watch this. Good shit, thanks!
 
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JJvercetti

JJvercetti

Warrior
Here is the footage from the Kakutop League 5. Infexious is like a damn robot, his reads are top notch.
Only timestamping the Gief stuff:
1:07:35 CCL (Chun-Li) vs Infexious (Zangief)
1:27:03 Akainu (Guile) vs Infexious (Zangief)
2:21:10 ImStillDaDaddy (Guile) vs Infexious (Zangief)
3:49:16 Luffy (R. Mika) vs Infexious (Zangief)
4:30:38 Infexious (Zangief) vs Crimson (Dhalsim)
5:02:07 Akainu (Nash) vs Infexious (Zangief)
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
JJvercetti said:
Here is the footage from the Kakutop League 5. Infexious is like a damn robot, his reads are top notch.
Only timestamping the Gief stuff:
1:07:35 CCL (Chun-Li) vs Infexious (Zangief)
1:27:03 Akainu (Guile) vs Infexious (Zangief)
2:21:10 ImStillDaDaddy (Guile) vs Infexious (Zangief)
3:49:16 Luffy (R. Mika) vs Infexious (Zangief)
4:30:38 Infexious (Zangief) vs Crimson (Dhalsim)
5:02:07 Akainu (Nash) vs Infexious (Zangief)
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Infexious best Gief? Him or Itabashi I think. Haven't seen Stupendous much lately.
Thanks for posting!!!
 
Kroaken

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
Johnny Based Cage said:
Thanks for the input, guys. I feel like Gief can spd those slow ass long limbs of Alex from anywhere anytime, but I'm sure I just need to get better. And I definitely don't feel like I can go ham on knockdown, especially if he has a bar.

TBH, it seems even regular SPD's let alone the grab immune EX ones beat my oki powerbombs - or worse yet, hyperbombs - that are already mid-animation all the time. Probably just need to work on my timing there too but fuck if that shit isn't frustrating.

EDIT:



Oh damn, I so need to watch this. Good shit, thanks!
Click to expand...
As an Alex player and a fan of gief, I definitely think that Alex gives him a hard time. I might be confused on what you were saying, but your best bet to beating Alex is to pressure him hard when you knock him down. He has no way out. And just to clarify I'm pretty certain that only giefs ex spd grab immune. Also his SPD is 5 frames whereas Alex's SPD is 6.

I hope I didn't misread your post. Holler at me if there's anything I can help with.
 
Johnny Based Cage

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Kroaken said:
As an Alex player and a fan of gief, I definitely think that Alex gives him a hard time. I might be confused on what you were saying, but your best bet to beating Alex is to pressure him hard when you knock him down. He has no way out. And just to clarify I'm pretty certain that only giefs ex spd grab immune. Also his SPD is 5 frames whereas Alex's SPD is 6.

I hope I didn't misread your post. Holler at me if there's anything I can help with.
Click to expand...

Appreciate it, but I'm actually coming from the Alex player's perspective too, so everything you mentioned is what I have issues in the matchup with (ex SPD being grab immune, normal SPD being faster than powerbomb, etc.). I also feel like although Alex has better normals in the footsies game, they're some of the easier ones for Gief to whiff punish with SPD's.

I guess the long story short is I just have to get used to being terrified of being in close as a character I normally want to do exactly that with in this particular matchup and rely on some serious footsies. It's not a bad matchup for Alex per se, but for me as a player.
 
Kroaken

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
Johnny Based Cage said:
Appreciate it, but I'm actually coming from the Alex player's perspective too, so everything you mentioned is what I have issues in the matchup with (ex SPD being grab immune, normal SPD being faster than powerbomb, etc.). I also feel like although Alex has better normals in the footsies game, they're some of the easier ones for Gief to whiff punish with SPD's.

I guess the long story short is I just have to get used to being terrified of being in close as a character I normally want to do exactly that with in this particular matchup and rely on some serious footsies. It's not a bad matchup for Alex per se, but for me as a player.
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Ah my bad. I was afraid I had something wrong. I usually abuse cr. Mp and work on getting a knockdown. We can really abuse gief on knockdown as well. Lariat is a mean weapon.

What rank are you? I ask to see if I can be of any help or not. I have a little gief experience as well. So if we're similar in skill we could run some sets?
 
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Johnny Based Cage

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Kroaken said:
Ah my bad. I was afraid I had something wrong. I usually abuse cr. Mp and work on getting a knockdown. We can really abuse gief on knockdown as well. Lariat is a mean weapon.

What rank are you? I ask to see if I can be of any help or not. I have a little gief experience as well. So if we're similar in skill we could run some sets?
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Lol wellll... I've only played one ranked match ever for one of those fight money challenges and I've only had the game for less than two months...

...buuuut idgaf, I'd still be down.
 
Kroaken

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
Johnny Based Cage said:
Lol wellll... I've only played one ranked match ever for one of those fight money challenges and I've only had the game for less than two months...

...buuuut idgaf, I'd still be down.
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That's okay. I haven't been practicing nearly as much as I should. I'm going to try to stop being an insomniac soon so I can be up tomorrow at a decent time. Send me your cfn and we'll set it up :)
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
Ok, so I've figured out my main complaint with my character in this game. THA SHIMMY. More specifically, the fact that something that is so integral and SO SIMPLE in fighting games is so devastating to Zangief... The throw VS button mix-up. The basic problem is that he has no option to defeat both (an invincible reversal). Now he of course isn't the only character that has this issue (Dhalsim and Mika come to mind) but he is the only one that I can think of that is slow as shit in winter AND has to be close to his opponents to do anything. You're going to get knocked down and you are going to get rushed down and you are going to have to deal with this. You guess wrong on the throw? You get crush countered and/or hit with a combo and potentially lose one bar of meter if you tried to EX SPD. You guess wrong on a button? You get thrown and are in the EXACT same situation and possibly lose one meter.

I don't consider this an indictment of the SFV engine (but maybe it is. I play other characters and don't feel this issue as much). But I am so sick of being afraid when people just walk in on me. Having weak defense is ok, he has always had weaker defense, but WHY IS NORMAL THROW SO HARD TO DEAL WITH. I am so unbelievably sick of throw, throw, Crush Counter, Death. I am so sick of it, I'm switching to Birdie for a while. Shit be serious, lol. Thoughts Comrades?
 
Johnny Based Cage

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Kroaken said:
That's okay. I haven't been practicing nearly as much as I should. I'm going to try to stop being an insomniac soon so I can be up tomorrow at a decent time. Send me your cfn and we'll set it up :)
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Sounds good, bruh. I usually don't go to sleep til around 5-6am EST myself anyway so insomnia works haha. CFN's same as here (just minus the spaces I think).
 
Kroaken

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
Johnny Based Cage said:
Sounds good, bruh. I usually don't go to sleep til around 5-6am EST myself anyway so insomnia works haha. CFN's same as here (just minus the spaces I think).
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Awesome. I'll add you to favorites and then message you here with a concrete time. Not sure how my holiday schedule is gonna go.
 
Kroaken

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
ChoseDeath said:
Ok, so I've figured out my main complaint with my character in this game. THA SHIMMY. More specifically, the fact that something that is so integral and SO SIMPLE in fighting games is so devastating to Zangief... The throw VS button mix-up. The basic problem is that he has no option to defeat both (an invincible reversal). Now he of course isn't the only character that has this issue (Dhalsim and Mika come to mind) but he is the only one that I can think of that is slow as shit in winter AND has to be close to his opponents to do anything. You're going to get knocked down and you are going to get rushed down and you are going to have to deal with this. You guess wrong on the throw? You get crush countered and/or hit with a combo and potentially lose one bar of meter if you tried to EX SPD. You guess wrong on a button? You get thrown and are in the EXACT same situation and possibly lose one meter.

I don't consider this an indictment of the SFV engine (but maybe it is. I play other characters and don't feel this issue as much). But I am so sick of being afraid when people just walk in on me. Having weak defense is ok, he has always had weaker defense, but WHY IS NORMAL THROW SO HARD TO DEAL WITH. I am so unbelievably sick of throw, throw, Crush Counter, Death. I am so sick of it, I'm switching to Birdie for a while. Shit be serious, lol. Thoughts Comrades?
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I miss 3 frame command grabs. Back when wake up spd was a threat. Like in sf4.
 
JJvercetti

JJvercetti

Warrior
ChoseDeath said:
Ok, so I've figured out my main complaint with my character in this game. THA SHIMMY. More specifically, the fact that something that is so integral and SO SIMPLE in fighting games is so devastating to Zangief... The throw VS button mix-up. The basic problem is that he has no option to defeat both (an invincible reversal). Now he of course isn't the only character that has this issue (Dhalsim and Mika come to mind) but he is the only one that I can think of that is slow as shit in winter AND has to be close to his opponents to do anything. You're going to get knocked down and you are going to get rushed down and you are going to have to deal with this. You guess wrong on the throw? You get crush countered and/or hit with a combo and potentially lose one bar of meter if you tried to EX SPD. You guess wrong on a button? You get thrown and are in the EXACT same situation and possibly lose one meter.

I don't consider this an indictment of the SFV engine (but maybe it is. I play other characters and don't feel this issue as much). But I am so sick of being afraid when people just walk in on me. Having weak defense is ok, he has always had weaker defense, but WHY IS NORMAL THROW SO HARD TO DEAL WITH. I am so unbelievably sick of throw, throw, Crush Counter, Death. I am so sick of it, I'm switching to Birdie for a while. Shit be serious, lol. Thoughts Comrades?
Click to expand...
The thing with this is that the other characters is that they more chance of starting up their dirt by either guessing right or just pressing buttons, Gief usually has to guess right on the mix up then guess again if they do something stupid like jump tatsu.
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
JJvercetti said:
The thing with this is that the other characters is that they more chance of starting up their dirt by either guessing right or just pressing buttons, Gief usually has to guess right on the mix up then guess again if they do something stupid like jump tatsu.
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Right on. And it pisses me of you can't punish anything anymore. MP? Big deal. No damage man, lol.
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
ChoseDeath said:
Ok, so I've figured out my main complaint with my character in this game. THA SHIMMY. More specifically, the fact that something that is so integral and SO SIMPLE in fighting games is so devastating to Zangief... The throw VS button mix-up. The basic problem is that he has no option to defeat both (an invincible reversal). Now he of course isn't the only character that has this issue (Dhalsim and Mika come to mind) but he is the only one that I can think of that is slow as shit in winter AND has to be close to his opponents to do anything. You're going to get knocked down and you are going to get rushed down and you are going to have to deal with this. You guess wrong on the throw? You get crush countered and/or hit with a combo and potentially lose one bar of meter if you tried to EX SPD. You guess wrong on a button? You get thrown and are in the EXACT same situation and possibly lose one meter.

I don't consider this an indictment of the SFV engine (but maybe it is. I play other characters and don't feel this issue as much). But I am so sick of being afraid when people just walk in on me. Having weak defense is ok, he has always had weaker defense, but WHY IS NORMAL THROW SO HARD TO DEAL WITH. I am so unbelievably sick of throw, throw, Crush Counter, Death. I am so sick of it, I'm switching to Birdie for a while. Shit be serious, lol. Thoughts Comrades?
Click to expand...
Have you worked on the jump back OS? I'm trying to get the timing down properly, but its extremely easy and it, in my opinion, is a huge deal, especially on characters that dont have a reversal - though everyone benefits from it. It doesn't work well in the corner and it loses to certain 'late' meaties (which isnt really a meaty any more, lol) but it adds another layer of depth and an additional defensive option. Once you establish it and they start reading it, you can start waking up with a jab to beat the late button.

And just FYI, I am not a Gief player, but I agree 100% with you, the wakeup mini-game in V is just fun-destroying. I dont care if its mechanically this or that and I'm not arguing that its broken or bad or whatever, all I'm saying is its just not fun or engaging or interesting.
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
EntropicByDesign said:
Have you worked on the jump back OS? I'm trying to get the timing down properly, but its extremely easy and it, in my opinion, is a huge deal, especially on characters that dont have a reversal - though everyone benefits from it. It doesn't work well in the corner and it loses to certain 'late' meaties (which isnt really a meaty any more, lol) but it adds another layer of depth and an additional defensive option. Once you establish it and they start reading it, you can start waking up with a jab to beat the late button.

And just FYI, I am not a Gief player, but I agree 100% with you, the wakeup mini-game in V is just fun-destroying. I dont care if its mechanically this or that and I'm not arguing that its broken or bad or whatever, all I'm saying is its just not fun or engaging or interesting.
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Thank you for the encouraging words, lol. I don't use that OS enough I think, I'll try incorporating it a bit more.

And that's interesting that you don't like waking up in this game either. Glad it isn't just me!
 
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