Killer Instinct Discussion Thread

[Harlequin969]

So you're telling me that without a DP eyedol can spam jHP for free? Nothing against you @Immortal but that was dumb. Can't wait for that nerf

 

[Immortal]

So you're telling me that without a DP eyedol can spam jHP for free? Nothing against you @Immortal but that was dumb. Can't wait for that nerf

He? You can just anti-air if you time it correctly. People just refuse to practice that and are waiting for nerf. It will be hella funny on 20th sept when the nerf arrive and it will be still + on block after it. Anyway thats why i switch to Fulgore, so people would stop whining.

And for the record Kan-Ra does exceptionally well vs Eyedol. Its surely in his advantage. Ofc until i corner you. But then again Fulgore destroys Kan-Ra.

 

[Harlequin969]

He? You can just anti-air if you time it correctly. People just refuse to practice that and are waiting for nerf. It will be hella funny on 20th sept when the nerf arrive and it will be still + on block after it. Anyway thats why i switch to Fulgore, so people would stop whining.

And for the record Kan-Ra does exceptionally well vs Eyedol. Its surely in his advantage. Ofc until i corner you. But then again Fulgore destroys Kan-Ra.

Yeah once cornered without sand KanRa has a bad time. Landing the cHP anti airs has been hard for me and I need to practice that over all.

 

[Wetdoba]

J HP is busted dude what are you talking about its the only thing you do its so fucking stupid. J HP and throw. No footsies, no using heavies to break armor, no long range plus on block club normals, no pip usage or management at all, no shadow counters, no counter breakers... the meta never evolved past J HP and throw, and its not like that was Aganos only, wvery math up you did the same shit and yet you are telling us to "git gud" and adapt

You have no idea what you are talking about, I dont know why you are feeling yourself so much. sorry not sorry

 

[Immortal]

J HP is busted dude what are you talking about its the only thing you do its so fucking stupid. J HP and throw. No footsies, no using heavies to break armor, no long range plus on block club normals, no pip usage or management at all, no shadow counters, no counter breakers... the meta never evolved past J HP and throw, and its not like that was Aganos only, wvery math up you did the same shit and yet you are telling us to "git gud" and adapt

You have no idea what you are talking about, I dont know why you are feeling yourself so much. sorry not sorry

I don't feel myself i don't consider myself nowhere near good in KI, mediocre at best. No idea why are you so aggressive towards me. Probably youre just salty over getting rekt by Eyedol jHP.

Good players who i sometime play like Thompson, Illusions have no problem baiting + AA me and beating my Eyedol. And i never said jHP isn't good / op. I only use jHP if people dont AA in the name of "if its working, keep doing it". I also use crossups to bait miss timed AA.

Also half of the cast have some sort of inv DP or wake up move. And guess what i still play Eyedol vs them and do mostly fine. I play Eyedol coz i find him super fun character not because of super good jHP. And i still gonna play him after they nerf jHP.

And before you say something dumb like i should try playing vs Eyedol yourself - i played that MU more then any other in the last month. I find it super fun.

Also KI never was footsies focused game, it's a small part of it but its not a Street Fighter and never will be. Pip building and usage has no place for Eyedol in its current form, its simply to weak, to slow, no point even after jHP get nerfed to be - on block (which i doubt, i think its gonna be netural or small + still). Unless it will get changed as well.

For the record i can beat you with my weak Fulgore. Did it dozen of times or more already. So next time you want to be so aggressive towards me, judging my choices and my game plan - start with yourself.

Also last time i checked i didn't force you to play me and there is/was no secret i play Fulgore AND EYEDOL. So get over your salt and ego.

 

[Wetdoba]

And the reason J HP into itself works against everyone without a DP is because of how busted it is. It is not even the plus frames, its the insane reach and priority, it is impossible to anti air with normals and I have labbed it with upper body invincible moves and it still beats them because it reaches so low. So instead if saying get good and practice your anti airs which is terrible and non viabel advice you should just say pick a DP character instead because its your only hope of stopping it consistantly.

And cool Aganos vs Fulgore and I lost, congrats that character is broke af with no weaknesses and shits all over him. Clear cut number 1 character vs a bottom 2 character that can do nothing but sit there and eat shit and shadow counter on a read which can still be blown up by him cancelling his special into dp. That character can make zero mistakes

 

[Immortal]

And the reason J HP into itself works against everyone without a DP is because of how busted it is. It is not even the plus frames, its the insane reach and priority, it is impossible to anti air with normals and I have labbed it with upper body invincible moves and it still beats them because it reaches so low. So instead if saying get good and practice your anti airs which is terrible and non viabel advice you should just say pick a DP character instead because its your only hope of stopping it consistantly.

And cool Aganos vs Fulgore and I lost, congrats that character is broke af with no weaknesses and shits all over him. Clear cut number 1 character vs a bottom 2 character that can do nothing but sit there and eat shit and shadow counter on a read which can still be blown up by him cancelling his special into dp. That character can make zero mistakes

DP is not the only way out. You're so blinded by the salt about jHP that you dont see other things. You can just pick a character who zone well, like Glacius or Kan-Ra and will do well vs Eyedol. Not to mention Hisako so you can parry anything. There are many things you can do with different characters not just inv DP. It doesn't mean Eyedol jHP isnt great but there are ways to deal with the character, like many ways not just one. Eyedol also have many weaknesses.

And i did beat you before when you played Gargos on top of yesterday matches to be clear. Don't remember if you play/played anybody else. And if you think Fulgore is "clear cut nr. 1" after the nerfs then imo you have even less idea about KI then i thought you had.

Anyway nothing against you personally althou you kinda made it that way. I just think that salt blinds you.

 

[ProudDisciple]

Man, I go away for a few days and there seems to be a bunch of chaos going on!

May I ask what @The Slaj Jazz @Harlequin969 @Wetdoba @YOMI RM JagoBlake @Immortal think about my Eyedol?

I try to incorporate all his tools to the best of my ability and feel that I don't exploit JHP.

 

[Harlequin969]

Man, I go away for a few days and there seems to be a bunch of chaos going on!

May I ask what @The Slaj Jazz @Harlequin969 @Wetdoba @YOMI RM JagoBlake @Immortal think about my Eyedol?

I try to incorporate all his tools to the best of my ability and feel that I don't exploit JHP.

Your eyedol is strong. Your warrior stance is very overwhelming though I notice you don't go for light linkers often or at all. Nor do you go for the medium punch recap often either. So those are tools you might want to think about bringing back in. Your juggles are good and it would help to mixup what you recap with.

A lot of the pressure game seems to be from forcing them to the corner and controlling space. When you're mid range I think that's where you're at your weakest or at the very least Eyedol might be. I'm trying to remember because its been awhile since we played.

With mage stance, it's mage stance so not a lot you can do there. Though something you can borrow from Immortal is ending combos in meteor to keep them guessing between meteor and teleport. Eyedol is my kryptonite at the moment so you won't get a lot of high level commentary from me lol.

 

[haketh]

And the reason J HP into itself works against everyone without a DP is because of how busted it is. It is not even the plus frames, its the insane reach and priority, it is impossible to anti air with normals and I have labbed it with upper body invincible moves and it still beats them because it reaches so low. So instead if saying get good and practice your anti airs which is terrible and non viabel advice you should just say pick a DP character instead because its your only hope of stopping it consistantly.

And cool Aganos vs Fulgore and I lost, congrats that character is broke af with no weaknesses and shits all over him. Clear cut number 1 character vs a bottom 2 character that can do nothing but sit there and eat shit and shadow counter on a read which can still be blown up by him cancelling his special into dp. That character can make zero mistakes

Who do you play that you think you have no options with

 

[Wetdoba]

DP is not the only way out. You're so blinded by the salt about jHP that you dont see other things. You can just pick a character who zone well, like Glacius or Kan-Ra and will do well vs Eyedol. Not to mention Hisako so you can parry anything. There are many things you can do with different characters not just inv DP. It doesn't mean Eyedol jHP isnt great but there are ways to deal with the character, like many ways not just one. Eyedol also have many weaknesses.

And i did beat you before when you played Gargos on top of yesterday matches to be clear. Don't remember if you play/played anybody else. And if you think Fulgore is "clear cut nr. 1" after the nerfs then imo you have even less idea about KI then i thought you had.

Anyway nothing against you personally althou you kinda made it that way. I just think that salt blinds you.

Oh no Fulgore got 2 frames shaven off his plus on block low combo starter what a terrible character changing nerf. Thats even worse than the nerfs Aganos got in season 3 when they made his instinct 3 times as bad, made heavies universally blow up armor, and then made enders breakable if there was never a chance to break so you can now break superman punch through walls. But I would love to hear your argument for why a character with everything from mix ups, zoning, mobility, safety, plus frames, reversal/anti air ect with no weknesses and the ability to cancel specials into specials if he ever fucks up is not number one. Oh right hes "meter dependant" even tho he builds meter for doing nothing including inbetween rounds. Ill give you him being tied with Jago for 1 but thats about all I can see because he also has no weakness and only strenghs.

 

[Wetdoba]

Your eyedol is strong. Your warrior stance is very overwhelming though I notice you don't go for light linkers often or at all. Nor do you go for the medium punch recap often either. So those are tools you might want to think about bringing back in. Your juggles are good and it would help to mixup what you recap with.

A lot of the pressure game seems to be from forcing them to the corner and controlling space. When you're mid range I think that's where you're at your weakest or at the very least Eyedol might be. I'm trying to remember because its been awhile since we played.

With mage stance, it's mage stance so not a lot you can do there. Though something you can borrow from Immortal is ending combos in meteor to keep them guessing between meteor and teleport. Eyedol is my kryptonite at the moment so you won't get a lot of high level commentary from me lol.

Anytime mage stance hits you with the meteor or low sparks he can confirm into the teleport for pips in warrior stance, thats what mage should be ending with

 

[Wetdoba]

Who do you play that you think you have no options with

Aganos now who has options but only with armor. A 6 frame normal flick without armor gets stuffed all day. I labbed HP into HP with Gargos and the only option I had was reversal anti air psycho crusher so to stop someone from holding up and abusing a jump in thats worse than any jump in in MKX I have to commit to an unsafe reversal with no invincibility on a read, hardly seems fair. He has no options that can beat it on reaction without instinct activation for armor, its retarded

 

[haketh]

Aganos now who has options but only with armor. A 6 frame normal flick without armor gets stuffed all day. I labbed HP into HP with Gargos and the only option I had was reversal anti air psycho crusher so to stop someone from holding up and abusing a jump in thats worse than any jump in in MKX I have to commit to an unsafe reversal with no invincibility on a read, hardly seems fair. He has no options that can beat it on reaction without instinct activation for armor, its (soap bar in my mouth)

I've had a lot of success with backdash Cr. MK to catch & punish landings with Gargos, MK Psycho Crusher like you've said is actually pretty good, it's not the hardest of reads really you just gotta be on the ball. I don't play Aganos so I can't really say anything but I've seen a lot of Aganos' in 8BD & other places have success with going A2A against Eyedol.

 

[Wetdoba]

I've had a lot of success with backdash Cr. MK to catch & punish landings with Gargos, MK Psycho Crusher like you've said is actually pretty good, it's not the hardest of reads really you just gotta be on the ball. I don't play Aganos so I can't really say anything but I've seen a lot of Aganos' in 8BD & other places have success with going A2A against Eyedol.

Why would I air to air J HP as Aganos that sounds terrible, he loses all armor in the air, his best option is to absorb the jump in with armor and trip guard it but that requires armor and health to dedicate to absorbing it

 

[Immortal]

Oh no Fulgore got 2 frames shaven off his plus on block low combo starter what a terrible character changing nerf. Thats even worse than the nerfs Aganos got in season 3 when they made his instinct 3 times as bad, made heavies universally blow up armor, and then made enders breakable if there was never a chance to break so you can now break superman punch through walls. But I would love to hear your argument for why a character with everything from mix ups, zoning, mobility, safety, plus frames, reversal/anti air ect with no weknesses and the ability to cancel specials into specials if he ever fucks up is not number one. Oh right hes "meter dependant" even tho he builds meter for doing nothing including inbetween rounds. Ill give you him being tied with Jago for 1 but thats about all I can see because he also has no weakness and only strenghs.

That actually makes me think you have no idea about Fulgore.

Nobody cares about 2 more frames on medium lasers (its now neutral on block from +2) that's fine. Nobody also care about heavy laser being more - on block now. Main difference and quite a big nerf for him is that they nerf light laser which was previously neutral on block now is -2. That makes his pressure really easy to stuff out since to build meter you really need to use a lot of blade dash special after which (light one) you go for LK into light laser or throw or you cancel (pip) blade dash into light laser after which you got for light kick into and here are several options. You get the idea.

Now anything after low laser is always easy to poke out / dash out even jump out (thou not everything can be jump out) before you had to be on point (to the frame). And if you stop Fulgore offense he gains meter super slow, without meter he is mediocre nothing more.

The only thing that's right what you wrote is that he really is VERY meter dependent. And he needs that meter to pip cancel, so forget about shadow counters or even shadow linkers / enders (unless its for the kill) coz you dont have meter for that.

Also he isn't great at zoning, obviously and you lose reactor speed which you need to regain as soon as possible (which means you have to go on offense) coz again without it Fulgore is nothing special and so im clear here, you wont win by zoning vs anybody, maybe except RAAM.

And don't get me wrong he is still good even very good character but if you say something like "clear cut nr. 1" or "being tied with Jago for 1" then imo you're clearly lacking knowledge about Fulgore.

Man, I go away for a few days and there seems to be a bunch of chaos going on!

May I ask what @The Slaj Jazz @Harlequin969 @Wetdoba @YOMI RM JagoBlake @Immortal think about my Eyedol?

I try to incorporate all his tools to the best of my ability and feel that I don't exploit JHP.

For as much as i remember when we played, your Eyedol is pretty solid.

I also think you should do more meteor enders in mage stance of ground lightning since building pips atm with Eyedol is mostly useless and people really want to jump over ground lighting / close distance with jump.

 

[haketh]

Why would I air to air J HP as Aganos that sounds terrible, he loses all armor in the air, his best option is to absorb the jump in with armor and trip guard it but that requires armor and health to dedicate to absorbing it

Because staying on the ground is obviously not working out for you in all cases so going air 2 air with something like J. LP or whatever can beat out the J. HP. You have multiple options, they may not always be the best but you have them so use them.

 

[Harlequin969]

Anytime mage stance hits you with the meteor or low sparks he can confirm into the teleport for pips in warrior stance, thats what mage should be ending with

Is it a true combo? I've been able to block it a few times so not sure if that's been a late input or not.

 

[Wetdoba]

Because staying on the ground is obviously not working out for you in all cases so going air 2 air with something like J. LP or whatever can beat out the J. HP. You have multiple options, they may not always be the best but you have them so use them.

Aganos in the air will not be better than him on the ground. Even if air to air flick were to beat J HP it would still have to be premptive and I would have to hit at least 10 to equal the amount of damage he gets off just 1 J HP, the risk reward is fucked

 

[Wetdoba]

Is it a true combo? I've been able to block it a few times so not sure if that's been a late input or not.

Yes its a true combo, you can do meteor, sparks, teleport as a combo or sparks, sparks teleport as a combo, every time a projectile hits you get a free pip but that is somehow useless

 

[M.D.]

When you Eyedol j.HP through glacius hail, bounce him, and only then get hit by the hail, then you realize how busted the hitbox vs hurtbox is.

 

[The Slaj Jazz]

I try back dashing out of eyedols jhp but it still catches so I just don't really know what to do about it. I try to get him with j1 (Tj Combo) but it seems everything gets stuffed lol. Maybe I can try his roll once he goes back in to the air I forgot to try that last time. @Proud Disciple I think your Eyedol is very good

 

[Harlequin969]

Does anyone want to play?

 

[The Slaj Jazz]

I'm about to come on right now if you give me 5 mins, just got home from a successful job interview

 

[Harlequin969]

I'm about to come on right now if you give me 5 mins, just got home from a successful job interview

Congrats man, and yeah I'm down