General/Other - Tanya Tanya Wishful & Logical Changes

[JGillette]

I find the 3,4 db4 delay nonsense tbh

 

[OfficialYungmonster]

Lol. I got a question. Why make this post? There's several others like this. It seems the Tanya community is stuck in some sort of nostalgia to what was and not what is. She still has a lot of dirty set ups I see that gets over looked. I honestly wish tym would purge these forums so we can start over, post relative tech, matches, and actually be useful to the community. These wish list, they don't belong here. Believe me, I do hope for some changes in the future but as it stands. This could be the last patch we have. Your guide on your other post was pretty informal but then just went south at the end. Where you told people to not waste their time with the variation. I'd never recommend that.

This was nothing but trueness... Agreed All of her variations are still fantastic.

 

[JGillette]

I think 5 less recovery frames on teleport would help Dragon Naginata a lot as the variation relies on teleport

 

[JGillette]

I also think less recovery frames would help Naginata like the invincibility frames do, but invincibility isnt needed more than less frames. Less frames would help Pyromancer too. Kobu Jutsu is killed in a literal sense so that adjustment wouldnt be too much along with the reverse of 3 4 delay nerf ( the special moves including ex ones gotten damage nerf as well so i think that would be fair).

 

[GAV]

Dragonnaginata Is still really good, I main her myself. How ever, pyromancer needs the buffs

Pyromancer being good would be terrible, IMO.

Her style just leads to running away and more running away.

If you wanna buff the other 2, fine - but phuck Pyromancer.

Anytime a Pyro dies, I feel like we are all better for it.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Pyromancer being good would be terrible, IMO.

Her style just leads to running away and more running away.

If you wanna buff the other 2, fine - but phuck Pyromancer.

Anytime a Pyro dies, I feel like we are all better for it.

You're joking, right?

 

[GAV]

You're joking, right?

Let me clarify...

Die, Pyro, die...

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Let me clarify...

Die, Pyro, die...

It's this mentality why Balanced Kenshi teleflurry is so bad a chimpanzee could get through it, why HQT Predator's zoning was needlessly nerfed again, why a whole bunch of shit goes through the Ice Klone for free, and why there are few good zoners. Even the good zoners don't get by on zoning, they always have to resort to rushdown when zoning inevitably fails.

 

[Tweedy]

I don't understand how a Kotal player is scared of Tanya and not Reptile/Demolition.

 

[GAV]

I don't understand how a Kotal player is scared of Tanya and not Reptile/Demolition.

Take me - you - character selection/matchups - completely out of the equation.

Right is right. Watch that vid and tell me I'm not right. That variation was bullshit. That's not fighting.

That wasn't even zoning. Real zoning is beautiful to watch as its poetry in motion. That was abhorrent.

 

[GAV]

It's this mentality why Balanced Kenshi teleflurry is so bad a chimpanzee could get through it, why HQT Predator's zoning was needlessly nerfed again, why a whole bunch of shit goes through the Ice Klone for free, and why there are few good zoners. Even the good zoners don't get by on zoning, they always have to resort to rushdown when zoning inevitably fails.

Both were mindless before they were touched. Now, Balanced Kenshi could use some help, but HQT is still very good.

When zoning isn't mindless, its absolutely beautiful - but a zoner's mindset must always be to zone foremost. Its up to the game to make them have to vary it enough for the zoners to reach their potential. Good zoners vary moves out of necessity so its up to the game to push them to stretch their skills by necessitating variety.

This is why Quan Chi and Tremor players are pure swaggg.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Both were mindless before they were touched. Now, Balanced Kenshi could use some help, but HQT is still very good.

When zoning isn't mindless, its absolutely beautiful - but a zoner's mindset must always be to zone foremost. Its up to the game to make them have to vary it enough for the zoners to reach their potential. Good zoners vary moves out of necessity so its up to the game to push them to stretch their skills by necessitating variety.

This is why Quan Chi and Tremor players are pure swaggg.

HQT deserved nerfs when he was first released but not in XL patch. People just can't deal with top tier zoners but it's okay for Cage to face fuck you in the corner all day. HQT is still good but that's not the point, he didn't deserve the laser damage nerfs. HQT wouldn't be good if it was only the zoning tools, he needs the cancels also. He is a zoner that is only good because he can also rush down. If the game is full of extremely powerful rushdown, it should have extremely powerful zoning. Almost every character has a powerful anti zoning tool with rushdown capabilities to back it up. You can't win as a pure zoner against a good player, if a character doesn't have some rushdown properties, they suck. And yes Pyromancer deserves buffs, that's not even debatable. Of course pre patch Tanya was broke and she doesn't need to be that good obviously, but it doesn't need to be broke or shit, it could be just "good".

 

[JGillette]

Let me clarify...

Die, Pyro, die...

I personally dont think you are right in this case. This video was captured when tanya had invincibility frames on her teleport. When invincibility and armor were taken away, only Naginata and Kobu Jutsu were being played. Therefore Tanya definitely needs faster teleports.

 

[GAV]

HQT deserved nerfs when he was first released but not in XL patch. People just can't deal with top tier zoners but it's okay for Cage to face fuck you in the corner all day. HQT is still good but that's not the point, he didn't deserve the laser damage nerfs. HQT wouldn't be good if it was only the zoning tools, he needs the cancels also. He is a zoner that is only good because he can also rush down. If the game is full of extremely powerful rushdown, it should have extremely powerful zoning. Almost every character has a powerful anti zoning tool with rushdown capabilities to back it up. You can't win as a pure zoner against a good player, if a character doesn't have some rushdown properties, they suck. And yes Pyromancer deserves buffs, that's not even debatable. Of course pre patch Tanya was broke and she doesn't need to be that good obviously, but it doesn't need to be broke or shit, it could be just "good".

Stop. Just stop.

In order for it to be zoning and not spamming, It has to have variety. Its not on the zoners to vary their attacks unless they get beat if they don't. Their games evolve into the poetry in motion that is Quan Chi and Tremor only when forced to.

Games don't start in the corner and getting them there and keeping them there takes variety.

Phuck Pyro, James Cameron Avatar-style...

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Stop. Just stop.

In order for it to be zoning and not spamming, It has to have variety. Its not on the zoners to vary their attacks unless they get beat if they don't. Their games evolve into the poetry in motion that is Quan Chi and Tremor only when forced to.

Games don't start in the corner and getting them there and keeping them there takes variety.

Phuck Pyro, James Cameron Avatar-style...

Did you just say 'spamming'?

Sure i spam 800frame fireballs nerf

 

[JGillette]

Did you just say 'spamming'?

Sure i spam 800frame fireballs nerf

He doesnt even have any idea about the situation of teleport in the video he posted

 

[GAV]

I personally dont think you are right in this case. This video was captured when tanya had invincibility frames on her teleport. When invincibility and armor were taken away, only Naginata and Kobu Jutsu were being played. Therefore Tanya definitely needs faster teleports.

 

[GAV]

Did you just say 'spamming'?

Sure i spam 800frame fireballs nerf

I play a little Dragon Naginata. I couldn't bring myself to ever use Pyro after seeing that.

 

[GAV]

He doesnt even have any idea about the situation of teleport in the video he posted

I know enough to never want to see that again.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Remember back when we would watch all fatalities on Tanya videos out of salt back when she was OP?
No? It was just me?

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Stop. Just stop.

In order for it to be zoning and not spamming, It has to have variety. Its not on the zoners to vary their attacks unless they get beat if they don't. Their games evolve into the poetry in motion that is Quan Chi and Tremor only when forced to.

Games don't start in the corner and getting them there and keeping them there takes variety.

Phuck Pyro, James Cameron Avatar-style...

"Spamming" lmao

What the fuck are you even talking about? What "variety" goes into rushdown like Sonya? I remember when you said that people WOULDN'T WANT Kenshi to get buffed and you challenged us to make a poll and your "theory" got blown out of the water. So now your taking your hate from one terrible "spamming" character to the next.

Just because they have a play style you don't agree with doesn't mean they should be in the dumpster. Jesus.

Please stop with the cringe memes also.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Referring to zoning as spam should be against forum rules.
I remember watching the ESL season 3 finals and the comments were pure cancer, "sonic fox is a pussy because the spams acid at least foxy has variety".
w-w-w-what??

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Referring to zoning as spam should be against forum rules.
I remember watching the ESL season 3 finals and the comments were pure cancer, "sonic fox is a pussy because the spams acid at least foxy has variety".
w-w-w-what??

Yeah Mileena so hype

 

[EdenianWarrior]

NRS give me this costume. Thanks.

 

[GAV]

"Spamming" lmao

What the fuck are you even talking about? What "variety" goes into rushdown like Sonya? I remember when you said that people WOULDN'T WANT Kenshi to get buffed and you challenged us to make a poll and your "theory" got blown out of the water. So now your taking your hate from one terrible "spamming" character to the next.

Just because they have a play style you don't agree with doesn't mean they should be in the dumpster. Jesus.

Please stop with the cringe memes also.

This is the first NRS game I have ever been good at. I post exactly what I think and that evolves by what I know. I'm sure veterans have forgotten things about the game that I haven't even figured out yet, but I have no agenda. I don't put myself above others. I just say it exactly as I see it. Great zoning is breath-taking when great zoners are pushed to the limits - and characters like Quan and Tremor do that in MKX. I can't say the same about Pyromancer Tanya. I'm certainly less sure than I was about Kenshi.

Its not the play-style I don't agree with. Its the design I'm not a fan of. One do-it-all projectile isn't a good design for an all-out zoner, but players who zone must adapt the winning mindset - and that is establish a tool and only break from it when necessary. Its up to the designers to make it necessary.

There's no reason to hate either character anymore, so it seems the designers and I see eye to eye on this one.

If spamming works, zoners should spam. Its up to the designers to make zoning viable, but not "brain-dead." In this respect, the design team has done a fine job, IMO. Either love 'em (like Summoner and Crystalline) or leave 'em (Like Pyro and Balanced).