Question - Hellfire Pre XL Cancels Better?

[braandooon]

Were Scorpion's Pre-Mortal Kombat XL's cancels better? Before XL Scorpion was able to do 214-FBC-F3-FBC-B121, all safe and un-pokeable. The opponents only option was to armor out of the FBC.

But later discovered was his armor breaking setup. Doing something like F4-DB4-B12-DB3, would let you break armor if you followed up with pressure. Thinking back, I believe it was possible to have 214-FBC-F3-FBC-B121 all safe and unarmorable, because of the armor breaking flame aura. They could backdash, but then you could always on prediction EX-Spear.

Now in XL we have guaranteed pressure. Cancels like S4-FBC-21 and 123-FBC-S3 jail but don't do as much chip. And if you want to use 214-FBC you have to make your opponent respect the string and not armor.

Which version of Scorpion's cancels did you prefer?

 

[DDutchguy]

Was the XL-patch the one with the universal chip damage reductions? If so, don't forget to take that into account.

 

[braandooon]

Was the XL-patch the one with the universal chip damage reductions? If so, don't forget to take that into account.

Was it? I didn't really notice :/

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Was it? I didn't really notice :/

Yeah if I'm not mistaken I think all normals and strings received a 20% chip damage nerf(i.e a 1.25 normal like Cage's f3 does 1.00 now I believe), which is why there's less chip on his pressure. Kinda of a good thing because his shit might of been a tad silly without it.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I prefer the XL version, you guys are complaining over a gap.


21 alone is +2, which should be good enough to bait armor or backdash. And 214 itself is +2 too.

If people are still trying to answer to your pressure with armor instead of backdash, do 214~tp cancel, most of the cast can't hit scorpion from the gap to the teleport which leave them open for a whiff punish when he lands from the other side.

If they block everything scorpion is at -4

Scorpion has better strings in XL as a whole not only 214, they are more lenient to stagger, and to apply frame traps he doesn't have only one string, his combos are also better in XL and his buttons are also better in XL, he has a 7f normal which is very plus on hit when FBC.
His B3~fbc~114~tp, 214~ex tp is working again, something he couldn't do when he was nerfed, and this combo is much needed with the current advantage 214 has.

 

[omooba]

i kinda agree. the 214 buff wasn't enough for what he lost. i believe resetting into godlike pressure after ever combo while disrespecting all armor options was waaaay better. however the 214 buff increased the viability of the other two variations incredibly. but regardless of which of these they keep i don't think it'll fix his problems. the thing with scorpions is his moves don't go anywhere. the only buttons don't advance at all are b3 and f3, his only not highs with decent speeds but they don't combo when run cancelled at max range . if that got buffed i personally wouldn't care which run cancel they keep

 

[God Confirm]

his pressure changed. Yes, the 214 cancels alone got weaker, people couldn't seem to wrap their heads around this at the time. it didnt become gapless, the gap just moved, except now the gap comes after the second hit so only 2 hits are guaranteed, and now if you DO catch them trying to get out the pressure during the gap, it sends them fullscreen knockdown instead of hitconfirming into full combo like it used to

But now he has 21 staggers, and he has new ways of hitconfirming. I'd say his pressure improved, slightly. Video coming soon.

 

[InFlames]

Can he still armor break with fire aura? If not I think pre-xl had potential to be the better version

 

[God Confirm]

Can he still armor break with fire aura? If not I think pre-xl had potential to be the better version

they took that away too, on top of other things

 

[Invincible Salads]

I prefer the XL version, you guys are complaining over a gap.


21 alone is +2, which should be good enough to bait armor or backdash. And 214 itself is +2 too.

If people are still trying to answer to your pressure with armor instead of backdash, do 214~tp cancel, most of the cast can't hit scorpion from the gap to the teleport which leave them open for a whiff punish when he lands from the other side.

If they block everything scorpion is at -4

Scorpion has better strings in XL as a whole not only 214, they are more lenient to stagger, and to apply frame traps he doesn't have only one string, his combos are also better in XL and his buttons are also better in XL, he has a 7f normal which is very plus on hit when FBC.
His B3~fbc~114~tp, 214~ex tp is working again, something he couldn't do when he was nerfed, and this combo is much needed with the current advantage 214 has.

why that combo tho? why wouldnt u just do b3~fbc~214~tele,214 Ex Tele.....instead?

 

[Eddy Wang]

why that combo tho? why wouldnt u just do b3~fbc~214~tele,214 Ex Tele.....instead?

Because before you couldn't do 214~tp, 214~tp in the same combo after the nerf.

B3~fbc 214 already is inconsistent against some characters except you were in the corner, 21 string was ass and 214 was -14 raw.
114~tp 214~ex tp is one of Scorpion best combo starters even since vanilla, when the 123~extp was shove into it he became pretty bad, he got that back because now he can do 214 twice in the same combo, for consistet restand.

yet people are over complaining about better hellfire pressure, the whole scorpion pressure got better as whole, there was nothing guaranteed out of pre XL 214~fbc and it was more of a gamble even when you land one combo.

Surely the vanilla was the best hellfire, but still i would prefer every XL scorpion version compared to pre XL nerf or Vanilla Ninjutsu which did no damage whatsoever.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Because before you couldn't do 214~tp, 214~tp in the same combo after the nerf.

B3~fbc 214 already is inconsistent against some characters except you were in the corner, 21 string was ass and 214 was -14 raw.
114~tp 214~ex tp is one of Scorpion best combo starters even since vanilla, when the 123~extp was shove into it he became pretty bad, he got that back because now he can do 214 twice in the same combo, for consistet restand.

yet people are over complaining about better hellfire pressure, the whole scorpion pressure got better as whole, there was nothing guaranteed out of pre XL 214~fbc and it was more of a gamble even when you land one combo.

Surely the vanilla was the best hellfire, but still i would prefer every XL scorpion version compared to pre XL nerf or Vanilla Ninjutsu which did no damage whatsoever.

ah ok, so theres currently no reason to do that combo then. b3~21~hellfire, 214~teleport is the standard sequence i use.

 

[JTB123]

I think it's hard to say for sure as Scorp 2.0 or pre XL is now gone forever so we can't really dig any deeper into that version of him.

The main difference between pre XL Scorp and and him now is that before XL he could take away the option for armour with his pressure and in this version he can take away the option to interrupt 214 which wasn't possible before.

Overall I'd say they're about the same. I do think nerfing aura armours tick was a necessary evil though, with a plus 21 I feel confident in saying armour breaking setups would have been found for 214 utilising aura which. I don't think that would have made him OP or anything, but I can see why they chose to take it away for XL.

I still think a lot of people don't understand that Scorpions utility has never changed, people tend to focus so much on the cancels which is only one part of his game and not the most important one either.

 

[God Confirm]

I think it's hard to say for sure as Scorp 2.0 or pre XL is now gone forever so we can't really dig any deeper into that version of him.

The main difference between pre XL Scorp and and him now is that before XL he could take away the option for armour with his pressure and in this version he can take away the option to interrupt 214 which wasn't possible before.

Overall I'd say they're about the same. I do think nerfing aura armours tick was a necessary evil though, with a plus 21 I feel confident in saying armour breaking setups would have been found for 214 utilising aura which. I don't think that would have made him OP or anything, but I can see why they chose to take it away for XL.

I still think a lot of people don't understand that Scorpions utility has never changed, people tend to focus so much on the cancels which is only one part of his game and not the most important one either.

Hellfire really doesn't have anything else going for him other than cancels... and flame aura shenanigans I guess

 

[Tweedy]

Hellfire really doesn't have anything else going for him other than cancels... and flame aura shenanigans I guess

Great damage and jailing mix ups(after TP on hit) that are safe and can't be fuzzied, in F2 and B3.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Great damage and jailing mix ups(after TP on hit) that are safe and can't be fuzzied, in F2 and B3.

Edit: i'm dumb

 

[God Confirm]

Great damage and jailing mix ups(after TP on hit) that are safe and can't be fuzzied, in F2 and B3.

That's not exactly an amazing reason to pick up the character tho, without run cancels he gets less than 40% for a bar, and thats not exactly a great mix-up

But anyway we were discussing his utlity, high damage isn't a tool

 

[JTB123]

Hellfire really doesn't have anything else going for him other than cancels... and flame aura shenanigans I guess

HF is perhaps the strongest punisher in the entire game and that is because of his cancel ability. It's far more valuable for combos than it is pressure in my opinion.

The fact that his cancels can be used for pressure is a bonus, S3,F3,12,B3 when FBC give him some of the highest meterless damage available and leave him with the option to do virtually whatever he wants. One of those options being his 214 OS which opens up even more options against some characters.

Flame aura should never be used as a shenanigan either. It's an amazing move that covers anti airs, anti rush down and allow him to blow up counter pokes with a full combo.

The only thing that really holds Scorpion back is that in order to utilise him to his full effectiveness you have to guess right and punish something to get him started. Other characters have a much easier time forcing their game on you due to the way this game plays which is a shame.

Scorpion should be much better than he is which is sometimes the most frustrating thing about him. You have all these great tools but before you get to use them you simply have to guess right most of the time.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Yeah right there^.
That's why I have trouble with Scorpion because I'm waiting for a mistake or trying to force one before I can get started. Where as when I'm playing Grandmaster I just 50/50 or trade s projectile then boom, they're in the corner an then you take them to pound town.