General/Other - Raiden Raiden General Discussion

[ganondeurf]

Well no character can do 2 cancels from a combo on hit. I think that's the only rule working logically in this game

 

[Youphemism]

Well no character can do 2 cancels from a combo on hit. I think that's the only rule working logically in this game

Johnny Cage can...

 

[Lil Majin]

Here are some anti air combos with Displacer.

 

[Raidenwins]

Here are some anti air combos with Displacer.

Man, your Displacer is a joy to behold. Looking forward to watching you represent Raiden in tournaments.

 

[Anor]

I've mained Raiden since the game released and I can confirm that he has never been able to cancel more than once of any kind in a combo. On block, he can cancel as long as he has stamina.

Found old video, or antiair not considered?

 

[Lil Majin]

Man, your Displacer is a joy to behold. Looking forward to watching you represent Raiden in tournaments.

Thanks man. My major tournament performance hasn't been good but I'm constantly learning more strategies, match ups, and practicing execution/smart play so that I can make a name for myself.

I'm going to Combo Breaker in two weeks, so we'll see how I do.

@Anor I don't what version of the game that is, but it has never been possible. That video shows that NRS has been ninja nerfing Raiden since the beginning.

 

[D7X]

Raiden being lower tier really sucks. Awesome character. NRS really doesn't handle variation balancing well at all.

 

[DDutchguy]

Raiden being lower tier really sucks. Awesome character. NRS really doesn't handle variation balancing well at all.

Raiden is good, not great. Being low tier in this game doesn't mean that much if you ask me.

 

[D7X]

Raiden is good, not great. Being low tier in this game doesn't mean that much if you ask me.

Having a lack of mids really hurts though. Displacer and MoS are the only ones that interest me.

 

[DDutchguy]

Having a lack of mids really hurts though. Displacer and MoS are the only ones that interest me.

F22+4, although starting up slowly, is +2 on block. You can even cancel it into teleport and still be +2. B1 doesn't get much use in Displacer and MoS, but you get 28% meterless from it in Thunder God. In that variation, B1 and its extensions are amazing. Raiden having bad mids is a thing of the past ever since B1 got a better hitbox.

 

[D7X]

F22+4, although starting up slowly, is +2 on block. You can even cancel it into teleport and still be +2. B1 doesn't get much use in Displacer and MoS, but you get 28% meterless from it in Thunder God. In that variation, B1 and its extensions are amazing. Raiden having bad mids is a thing of the past ever since B1 got a better hitbox.

Ahh, I see. I just wish he was considered mid tier at least.
Sadly though, Thunder God is the best one but the most boring (For me at least)

 

[DDutchguy]

Ahh, I see. I just wish he was considered mid tier at least.
Sadly though, Thunder God is the best one but the most boring (For me at least)

Raiden is mid tier if you ask me, don't underestimate him. He has some very good qualities to him.

I personally find TG to be the most interesting, but most of the Raiden community agrees that Displacer and TG are just as good as one another.

 

[D7X]

Raiden is mid tier if you ask me, don't underestimate him. He has some very good qualities to him.

I personally find TG to be the most interesting, but most of the Raiden community agrees that Displacer and TG are just as good as one another.

Heard he was lower tier from many others. I was raped by a TG Raiden once, didn't know ANYTHING about him then.

 

[Lil Majin]

When it comes to high level, this game is about 1) Ways to Get Damage and 2) Ways to Avoid Taking Damage.

Raiden excels in ways to get damage:
+ Excellent punishment 25% - 32% meterless
+ Has good, far reaching AA f1
+ All armor moves sans bf3 and du are launchers
+ Safe 50/50s
+ Vortexs from combo enders
+ Best wall carry
+ More than 3 moves/sequences that leave him in plus
+ Far reaching normals
☆ TG does more chip damage and builds more meter; which means he gets to do more EX moves per round
☆ Displacer teleport creates whiffs and can be used as a vortex anywhere on the screen
☆ MOS orbs serve as combo starting pseudo combo breakers and can be deadly in the corner
- Zoning non-existent. Raiden can't zone
- He is low-profileable

Raiden is decent in the ways to avoid taking damage department.

+ In TG, he is safe after lightning strings and LRC makes everything else safe/plus
----but his armor moves are all hard reads
----he can be cornered
--------if he escapes the corner with anything sans a crossup JIP or raw NJP then his combos will end in knockdowns
+++++ TG gets far more combo breakers

+ MOS activated traps force a reaction
+ They can serve as pseudo combo breakers that launch
+ Orbs stop run-ins
----same weaknesses as TG involving armor
----when MOS is cornered, it's HORRID

Displacer has a teleport.......NUFF SAID!
+ Can't be kept in the corner
+ Can teleport to avoid being punished from strings and 50/50s alike
+ Ultimate anti-zoning with teleport
++++++EX teleport leads to punishment on all projectiles

- far teleport uses half stamina
------half stamina gone means no combo breakers
- wake-up EX teleport is inconsistent and refuses to come out at times


Raiden has a lot more pros than cons.

I'd say that he is A tiered.

 

[DDutchguy]

When it comes to high level, this game is about 1) Ways to Get Damage and 2) Ways to Avoid Taking Damage.

Raiden excels in ways to get damage:
+ Excellent punishment 25% - 32% meterless
Raiden has decent damage off of F1, but compared to the rest of the cast it's merely decent. TG gets 25% meterless, with Displacer and MoS dealing similar damage unless you go for the ultra hard 3 F12B2s for 32%. The latter is pretty good though.
+ Has good, far reaching AA f1
Very true, F1 has an incredible hitbox above itself. TG gets 25% meterless when going into B14 and 27% if you add an NJP (which is substantially harder). Not sure what Displacer gets, but yeah F1 is good.
+ All armor moves sans bf3 and du are launchers
EX-shocker is a great armored launcher, but EX-db3 is bad safe for very specific situations in the corner and EX-db2 only launches in the corner or when used quite early as an anti-air.
+ Safe 50/50s
Only in Displacer midscreen (also requires quite good execution to make it worth it). In the corner, true.
+ Vortexs from combo enders
Again, true.
+ Best wall carry
+ More than 3 moves/sequences that leave him in plus
F22+4 and 112 (only in Displacer and MoS) are +2, which is decent, but Raiden doesn't have that much to make good use of it besides a 50/50 attempt (with an 11-frame window for the opponent to do something) or doing B11 into something you barely get damage off of in Displacer and MoS, which also requires meter.
+ Far reaching normals
Debatable. A lot of Raiden's attacks have half-sweep distance range to them, besides F22+4 in Displacer and MoS. Most lack enough the range to be used as reliable footsie tools.
☆ TG does more chip damage and builds more meter; which means he gets to do more EX moves per round
Better meter building is right, more chip is wrong. B32 does 1.80%, while B33 does 1.60% and B34 does 2.40%. F12B2 in TG does 2.00% while F12B2 in Displacer and MoS does 2.20%.
☆ Displacer teleport creates whiffs and can be used as a vortex anywhere on the screen
Could you elaborate on this? How does this work?
☆ MOS orbs serve as combo starting pseudo combo breakers and can be deadly in the corner
Debatable. They're highs and start up quite slowly. You'll have to sacrifice damage to get a good orb setup and even then, its only use is to make your opponent respect your options by breaking armor and punishing anything that is not a poke. B2 will remain very unsafe in the corner and you don't get any added damage from it off of B3.
- Zoning non-existent. Raiden can't zone
Agreed, his projectile is pretty ass.
- He is low-profileable
Agreed, though in TG you get a lot off of B1, which is a very good mid.

Raiden is decent in the ways to avoid taking damage department.

+ In TG, he is safe after lightning strings and LRC makes everything else safe/plus
False, unheld F12B2 and B32 are -13 with the held versions being -8. The latter is practically safe because of pushback, but the former is only pseudo-safe as the opponent has to make a read on whether you'll hold the string or wont't hold it.
----but his armor moves are all hard reads
----he can be cornered
Depends. Raiden has a good enough NJP and can switch sides in TG. Displacer also has a get-out-of-jail-for-free card with teleport.
--------if he escapes the corner with anything sans a crossup JIP or raw NJP then his combos will end in knockdowns
As in doesn't give you a vortex? True, though I don't think it's that much of an issue.
+++++ TG gets far more combo breakers
Doesn't have to be true. Raiden seems very meter reliant to me with how his lack of good + frames and stagger pressure (in TG at least) often forces me to use armor.

+ MOS activated traps force a reaction
Or force the opponent to respect unsafe / meter sapping options.
+ They can serve as pseudo combo breakers that launch
True, although you do need an opening in which you can do the move.
+ Orbs stop run-ins
Decent use of it yes, though most characters can outzone him, which makes the orbs stopping run-ins a bit redundant.
----same weaknesses as TG involving armor
----when MOS is cornered, it's HORRID

Displacer has a teleport.......NUFF SAID!
+ Can't be kept in the corner
One of Displacer's bigger pros, he can move around the screen extremely quickly and pretty safely.
+ Can teleport to avoid being punished from strings and 50/50s alike
B34 is the only note-worthy string where he can do those. EX-teleporting off of B2 is a safe 50/50, not avoiding punishment really.
+ Ultimate anti-zoning with teleport
++++++EX teleport leads to punishment on all projectiles
Also very good.

- far teleport uses half stamina
------half stamina gone means no combo breakers
- wake-up EX teleport is inconsistent and refuses to come out at times
Very very true and a con that should not be underestimated. EX-teleport is such an inconsistent wakeup it can cause you to get outright full combo punished for it.


Raiden has a lot more pros than cons.

I'd say that he is A tiered.

Added my own thoughts marked in red. Most of your points I agree with, but there are several where I do not, mostly regarding TG and MoS.

 

[Lil Majin]

Added my own thoughts marked in red. Most of your points I agree with, but there are several where I do not, mostly regarding TG and MoS.

Thanks for the additions and corrections to my post. Where do you think Raiden is placed on the tier list now?

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

Thanks for the additions and corrections to my post. Where do you think Raiden is placed on the tier list now?

I'm not a Raiden player, but I think that he is A- or A. He's a solid character - Thunder god has run cancels and very good damage. Displacer has an amazing teleport and good frame traps. Master of Storms has good setups, it's not a big deal but it's viable I think because right now his energy balls stays for 20secs which is very nice.

 

[TheRealOnlyGoonie]

Is it possible to hit B14 after F12B2?

 

[DDutchguy]

Is it possible to hit B14 after F12B2?

Yes. In Thunder God you can also lightning run cancel the B14 into 214~BF3 for 25%.

 

[TheRealOnlyGoonie]

My bad should of specified, Im talking in Displacer, is it possible?

 

[DDutchguy]

My bad should of specified, Im talking in Displacer, is it possible?

With a run cancel, yes. Has to be just one F12B2 however, otherwise you can't get close enough in time.

 

[Anor]

How do you think it will buff Raiden after final ESL and EVO?

 

[DDutchguy]

How do you think it will buff Raiden after final ESL and EVO?

It has not been confirmed that MKX will be receiving another patch, be it before or after EVO or ESL.

 

[N00B]

@N00B you said a mouthful and you have a good point saying that Raiden hasn't won nor gotten top 8 in any U.S. major. It's true, and that is SOLEY because there aren't any top nor even above decent Americans using him in tournaments anymore outside of Digit and maybe myself.

During your rant, you said some things that were just wrong:

1) There is no gap in b2, df2 on block
2) b34 into far teleport is safe
3) There IS a gap between b32 in ThunderGod but no armor nor backdash in the game can stop it besides MAYBE punchwalk, counters, and XRays.
4) I never said b1 was good in neutral lol
5) Raiden is safe without meter especially in Displacer.
6) f4, d1, d3, d4, mb db3 all deal with low profile
7) Teleport IS INDEED a neutral tool because it can teleport through attacks as well as projectiles. He can land more throws and whiff punishes because of teleport.
8) Raiden has a 50/50, it doesn't matter if you know the matchup.....

1) Im not played mkx 2 or 3 month so i forgot most of things. Ok i know now.
2) Its good but there is a gap in b34 right?
3) Yea i know it but lightnighs unsafe for sure yea and has a gap when you cancel it right?
4) ok
5) I dont know much about displacer, what exactly safe in displacer withoght any gaps meterless? Does that b2 can be cancelled into teleport for safety or what? I know about being safe with meter only or cancel but some cancels arent safe.
6) Its not enough and its not much effective tools compare to that what other stronger characteers have.
7) But withought a good fast long range mid and withought long range poke its not effective too in neutral distance.
8) Actually its always matters, doesnt matter if character have mix up or not, you should know a match up, you should know all frames, when you can armor, e.t.c. e.t.c.

Raiden is a rushdown character desighn, he has a good buttons for up close, good mix ups in general but hes neutral, footsies is bad, deffense is bad in thunder god and its not enough man its not enough for being a good srong character in mkx. He has too many bad match ups. For example Shinnok and Jax is complete, strong, balanced high or top tiers characters who has a few bad match ups, Raiden is bad comparing to them and top tiers. Raiden needs buffs, a little redesighn imo.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Could someone send me links to combos, strats, tech, etc.

I'm learning Thunder God Raiden for fun and would appreciate it.