SonicFox = Potential Greatest of All Time...And We Are Living In It

[Linkuei82]

I actually thought about this last night, and I think Sonic is GOAT as of right now. MKX hasn't been out for a year yet and look what he accomplish. Plus he plays other games. It's rare seeing a player this good. I would put REO right behind him compare to overall NRS/Midway games behind him. This kid is really like one of a kind.

 

[FL Rushdown]

While I agree that anti-airs are weak in MKX, calling it bad design just sounds wrong. I've only played NRS fighting games so I have nothing to compare it to, but can't there just be a fighting game where jumping is a strong tool that both players can take advantage of?

Like why are you even here if you're only going to shit on the game?

Jumping is an incredibly strong tool in non NRS fighting games. It's just a tool you have to use more sparingly and generally on a read/reaction.

I don't really agree with how he's arguing it but I do agree that NRS games are fun but lack the level of competitive depth that other fighting games offer(tekken, sf, gg, etc).

There's probably no way to convince you of it but I don't honestly know anyone who seriously plays both MK and other games and thinks MK is the more strategic fighter

Edit: in short MK is fast paced and reactionary, and a lot of people prefer the slower more methodical pace of other fighting games.

 

[angry bruiser]

While I agree that anti-airs are weak in MKX, calling it bad design just sounds wrong. I've only played NRS fighting games so I have nothing to compare it to, but can't there just be a fighting game where jumping is a strong tool that both players can take advantage of?

Like why are you even here if you're only going to shit on the game?

There can, but it has to be included as a risk-reward choice and room for counterplay. That's the basis for fgs.

As of now, at least half the chars in this game cannot stop a Kung Lao jumping in on them on reaction. Between divekick and ji2 there simply aren't meterless answers to stop it for some. It's just bad/ignorant design.

 

[Linkuei82]

Isn't Sonic GDLK in Skullgirls, DOA, and UNIBE too?

 

[ragnar0kz28]

We are., but as a Skype Illuminati member, blowing fools up for foolish opinions crosses friendship boundaries. GGA 16 Bit yells at Wound Cowboy every second night for downplaying Sinestro, yet these two fools are very good friends.

The point is, Sonic Fox is not the best fighting game player. In fact, he is not even the best Injustice player. Theo is, and Carl and REO are superior Mortal Kombat 9 players, according to results. So this thread is futile.

yes you are right, but in MKX hes the best, and has proven it since day 1

 

[haketh]

You know what's funny about some SF players, they want NRS top player like Sonic Fox to prove they're good by also winning majors in their game because that's the only game that has fundamentals (Self Proclaimed LOL) . Apparently Sonic Fox winning the biggest tournaments on like 5 different games for like the past few years isn't enough to prove he's one of the best in the FGC. P.S. if MKX is so easy and cheap then they are the one suppose prove it by doing the cheap stuff on NRS top player and winning majors, surely it isn't going to take much time to do given the fact how difficult and execution heavy SF IV is compared to MKX, nothing to lose BRUH

Can we like dead this please? Pretty much no Top player in Capcom games slams top players in MK at all anymore lmao.

Isn't Sonic GDLK in Skullgirls, DOA, and UNIBE too?

It's really hard to judge him in UNIEL because

1. America loses to Japan free

2. The scene is in a weird state of flux right now, but I doubt he was better than 2GB

 

[Charybdis]

Sonic is so far ahead of the rest of the NRS community it's terrifying. Kid is an absolute monster and he's rightfully a huge favourite to take his third NRS Evo in three years (no that MK9 side tournament still doesn't count )

 

[iSuckAtFightingGames]

"Best" is such a hard term to define. All that is known is that he is a real great player. The problem is that unless he takes up Street Fighter 5 he will never get respect in the wider FGC, not matter how many games he #1s at evo. As far as the NRS scene goes, there is no doubt that he is top dog, and not by a little but.. but by miles.

The new netcode should go a long way into improving the entire NRS scene. Online monsters will be at less of a disadvantage and off line legends will be able to get better training without joining huge houses like YOMI. There will always be a need for offline training but the difference will be smaller. This should lead to out of nowhere legends popping up.

I hope ESL gose to a season 3. As the netcode gose both ways. DJT and other offline heroes should be able to play better online. This will most likly mean there will be a wider showing at the next final.

Man I almost posted something questioning how Dave thinks Theo is better than SF but then I remembered it's Dave and therefore troll. Almost had me, dave.

this is so hilarious! But in all seriousness people just completely ignore M2dave anyway. I doubt there is a person who matters less when he posts on the entire TYM.

 

[Rude]

I like how even though there were plenty of stand 1 anti-airs, anti-cross up jabs, d1s, and NJPs during ESL people still say anti-airs are weak.

What a dated talking point.

 

[iSuckAtFightingGames]

If anything they are gettign stronger. As people are getting on point with their footsies people are starting to use normals to poke anti-air now. It is getting epic.

 

[FL Rushdown]

I like how even though there were plenty of stand 1 anti-airs, anti-cross up jabs, d1s, and NJPs during ESL people still say anti-airs are weak.

What a dated talking point.

But they are weak.....

The existence of anti airs in mkx doesn't change the fact that the anti air options in other fighting games are stronger. Give a character a 3 frame invincible startup dp and we can talk about MK having strong anti airs.

 

[Rude]

But they are weak.....

The existence of anti airs in mkx doesn't change the fact that the anti air options in other fighting games are stronger. Give a character a 3 frame invincible startup dp and we can talk about MK having strong anti airs.

Apples and oranges.

Anti-airs are fine in this game. The problem is that people want everything handed to them instead of figuring it out.

Between low profiling, NJP, stans 1, d1, and even some character's d3s, anti-airs are fine.

I'm sorry not every character has a move just for anti-air. You might have to actually learn what your character's best tool is.

 

[FL Rushdown]

Apples and oranges.

Anti-airs are fine in this game. The problem is that people want everything handed to them instead of figuring it out.

Between low profiling, NJP, stans 1, d1, and even some character's d3s, anti-airs are fine.

I'm sorry not every character has a move just for anti-air. You might have to actually learn what your character's best tool is.

I'm not really making an argument that one game design is better or worse than the other. I'm just stating that defensive options in other games are objectively stronger.

But if you seriously think Ryu only uses dps for AA then you don't know much about SF. He has jab aas, cr MK trip guards, nj MK, forward jump mp, cr fierce, stand roundhouse, and even far stand fierce.

 

[Rude]

I'm not really making an argument that one game design is better or worse than the other. I'm just stating that defensive options in other games are objectively stronger.

But if you seriously think Ryu only uses dps for AA then you don't know much about SF. He has jab aas, cr MK trip guards, nj MK, forward jump mp, cr fierce, stand roundhouse, and even far stand fierce.

If course I don't think that. Your implication that a game can't have strong anti-airs without a DP is ridiculous, though. It's just not accurate.

People are getting blown up more and more for jumping in MKX. Early on in any game's life, jumping will be strong because everyone is still learning. As the game evolves, people get better at it as they learn the best tools for the situation.

 

[FL Rushdown]

If course I don't think that. Your implication that a game can't have strong anti-airs without a DP is ridiculous, though. It's just not accurate.

People are getting blown up more and more for jumping in MKX. Early on in any game's life, jumping will be strong because everyone is still learning. As the game evolves, people get better at it as they learn the best tools for the situation.

im not saying it can't have strong anti airs without a dp. I'm just saying the dp is a pretty damn overpowered move.

 

[Rude]

im not saying it can't have strong anti airs without a dp. I'm just saying the dp is a pretty damn overpowered move.

Okay.

 

[SHAOLIN]

im not saying it can't have strong anti airs without a dp. I'm just saying the dp is a pretty damn overpowered move.

Compare to what? Kotal Khan (WG) has a armored launcher that you could use as a wake up or anti air and Tremor (Crystalline) also a armored launcher that is safe(?) and can be use in the same way. Lets not forget their combo starters.

 

[juicepouch]

is it just me or is it a joke when people who couldn't take rounds off sonic downplay how good he is

 

[FL Rushdown]

Compare to what? Kotal Khan (WG) has a armored launcher that you could use as a wake up or anti air and Tremor (Crystalline) also a armored launcher that is safe(?) and can be use in the same way. Lets not forget their combo starters.

Over powered as in compared to other anti airs.

 

[Infinite]

I think the fact that one player can be so dominate proves it takes skill... If it was so easy everyone would be competitive, especially with so much money on the line.

 

[Slips]

I've always tried to explain learning any fighting game and being able to perform at a high level in it is hard. I don't care if it's SF, Marvel, KOF, Tekken or DOA. The meta on how to implement proper spacing and understanding the risk/reward in the most common scenarios is the hardest thing to learn in all of them. Not option selects or fancy combos.

I was great at Tekken and all I hear about is how hard Tekken is to play. To me I have a harder time with 2D games because there is all this multi-tasking with defending special moves and jumps while also playing footsies. In Tekken it's 100% footsies and is waaaay simpler in my mind. I can't even fathom trying to play Marvel or Guilty Gear at a high level.

It's all in your strengths and weaknesses in the way you think and how your mind works. How you perceive the game is supposed to be played. If you can't understand the meta then it doesn't matter how easy/hard everything else is.

That being said Fox seems to be on another level in our community. He's like Forever King but instead of switching around top tiers he's switching around mid/upper mid tiers. His ability to translate his mind to his fingers without hesitation no matter what character he's using is second to none. It's pretty sick.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Daigo doesn't drop a lot of combos. He drops "some". Any E. Ryu will drop combos when they've got 2-3 one frame links in rapid succession that have to be hit confirmed off of one single cr MK.

Then you didn't watch Capcom Cup. Even the commentators repeatedly brought up how his dropped combos in that tournament were costing him.

But the point was, his reads, knowledge of the game, and fantastic play allowed him to succeed at CC2 regardless. That's why I find it questionable that someone would use MKX's combo input requirements as the barometer of what determines a player's abillity at the highest level.

A great player is a great player, and they'll do what they need to to adjust to the technical requirements of the game they play. And despite that, the true technical wizards often end up being the people that make the 30-hit combo videos but can't place.

 

[Baconlord]

I like how even though there were plenty of stand 1 anti-airs, anti-cross up jabs, d1s, and NJPs during ESL people still say anti-airs are weak.

What a dated talking point.

hopefully with the new netcode people will finally learn how to anti air in this game and stop complaing. I'm not holding my breath tho.

 

[FL Rushdown]

Then you didn't watch Capcom Cup. Even the commentators repeatedly brought up how his dropped combos in that tournament were costing him.

But the point was, his reads, knowledge of the game, and fantastic play allowed him to succeed at CC2 regardless. That's why I find it questionable that someone would use MKX's combo input requirements as the barometer of what determines a player's abillity at the highest level.

A great player is a great player, and they'll do what they need to to adjust to the technical requirements of the game they play. And despite that, the true technical wizards often end up being the people that make the 30-hit combo videos but can't place.

The commentators also brought it up because of how incredibly out of character it was for daigo, but I agree daigo isn't the best because his execution is the best. He's more of a read based player. No fear in the beast.

 

[sars]

I don't think we can compare him to a JWong or Diago yet, in 5 years maybe. He is godlike at fighting games because he has the knowledge to understand them. He is by far the best player at reading opponents in mkx. That's why it's so hard to reset him and win the last set. You just gave him 3 to 5 rounds worth of data to use against you. He beat scar in a very close set and then a week later beat scar 5 games strait. He is just that good, and people who downplay him are retarded.