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Tekken 7 General Discussion Thread - OP Updated With All Tekken Info

Law Hero

There is a head on a pole behind you
Haven't posted in this thread in forever, but I thought I'd say "hello" to all my Tekkenbros on TYM.

Also, buff Leo!
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Why do so many players just whip out super? It's like tekken dudes ain't used to them lol.
I think that's why lol. Adjusting I guess. Even guys like Hawk threw out a couple of random Supers when we played in the arcade. It'll probably be less as time goes and used more defensively since it absorbs hits and combos you.

Damn, should visit TYM more often. 54 pages is too much. Anyway I am super salty about Bruce being replaced by Josie. Without bf4 and b2 I am extremely skeptical about her being able to deliver what I want. If I am not mistaken b1+2 aka "World star hip hop backhand" was also removed? Last hit of b1-series was also removed I think and db3+4 as well.
Why do I keep mixing up bruce and bryan?

Anyways @SaltShaker has been seemingly in love with Josie.
Don't be fooled Smoke of Finland. Don't. Be. Fooled. Josie is the truth, better than Bruce. She may not have his B2 or one or two other things, but she makes up for it with better mixups, new mixups from new backsway stance, unfair D4, F3+4 with priority of the Gods that full combos on CH and gives great oki on NH, better WR moveset, etc. I played both and Josie definitely feels better. Bruce was great, but Josie feels one tier under the Shaheen/Devil Jin level. She's Mrs. No Bad Matchups!

Who are the top 5 scariest characters at the wall?

Here is my top 5 picks.

#5 Paul
Come on, if you don't have Paul on your top 5 deadliest characters at the wall in the game, you must be nuts, Paul has a death fist that deals clean damage, AND wallsplats, besides being a good W! move, its also the most stupid ender ever on any situation including WALLS. This is just the beginning you so don't want to get hit by death fist that which will conditions you to stand block against him in order to avoid it.

Guess what, paul has a throw which also wallsplat when you're blocking standing, and a d4,2 also will wall splat on on counter only, although besides all this, he has very few tracking moves so you can sidestep while you can, just be carefull with his magic 4.

4# Kazuya
Kazuya wall game wasn't much of a scarier before in TTT2, but in T7 he got some decent buffs to cop-out his lack of wall damage, he got Devil Jin's B4 move which hits mid, on counter hit it causes crumple stun, but against he wall, it will splat.
That move is stupid good because is safe and puts you under some serious pressure since you don't want to duck to not get hit by it, it will constantly put you under pressure with F4 which also hits mid but causes knockdown.

The problem is, F4 on block will frame trap you, which leave Kazuya to try out some interesting offense with his other tools, even though is 112 doesn't wallsplats anymore, i dare you press a button after you block F4, just press and find out what happens.
Scrub though: "maybe i should take the hit"
Suuuure! Just be mindful that on counter hit will knockdown and guarantees a free B4 luckly doesn't wallsplat, but the guaranteed damage of this two moves is insane which btw is also part of his consistent wall combo.

Any BnB into df14 then F4, B4 when they hit the wall and do some stupid damage.
Don't forget he still has hellsweep which will surely wall splat, so will you block a hellsweep on reaction you will take the hit?

3# Devil Jin
Saltshaker nows what's up, if you haven't seen the last tekken video i've shared among a few pages ago, where Devil Jin is doing ridiculous stuff at the wall, his wall game is so dumb that you will cry for the person taking the hit.
He has a stone head that wall splats, Laser cannon mixups which can be delayed, last hits wall splats, he can delay for a stone head, B4 or Hellsweep, he has so many fast attacks that are so impredictable to react to them on point

On situations like this one, usually it feels like devil jin is saying, "pick a winner" either you risk your entire life and dare to press a button, or die in the wall.

2# King
I put king on my number two list for several reasons first up, King has a good chunk of mid moves , attacks that crushes other attacks those will keep anyone honest on the wall willing to not press to many buttons, and this leads to my personal favorite, he has throws that wall splat.
U+1+2~b will change the direction of the throw and reverse positions with king, and he earns a wallsplat in the process when he is against the wall, its a 1+2 break so it should be easier right? Well, now picture for a second that king has another throw called Giant Swing, which cannot be teched on the same window than regular throws, if you miss the window you're done, if you guess the wrong break, your done. You're getting wallsplated bruh.

And as if it wasn't worse, he has a wall throw which will make you cry, because when it finishes, he gets to do things you never imagine, like throw you on a wakeup, or if he reads a techroll he can pick you up to not let you reposition on the wall or his new Netsu setup is also scarier.


1# Jin Kazama
One of the reasons why Jin has always managed to hold it on his own, it was because how ridiculous he is at the wall, if any Jin masters his wall game, every time you do a corner carry your likely to win the round.

In Tekken 7 his wall game is even better, considering he has very consistent wall enders, his half of his fillers, strings and a few normals are designed to wallsplat, if you think death fist is dumb, wait until you find out that Jin has a 50-50 mixup at the wall.

He has tracking moves that wallsplat, so sidestep mindlessly is out of the question, his low starters got a bit nerfed since there is no bound, but that is the whole point, you will want to block those lows at the wall since the constant knockdown into d2 will do very good damage, so you will be risking to duck, even if it is just for a brief moment.
Problem is that he has a bunch of safe a 13f mid which can lead to wallsplat with tracking, and is safe, a ff2 that is safe and wallsplats, a B4 that wall splat and is safe, ff3 that frame traps, EWHF and now recently a sidestep attack that crumple stun on counter hit, which guarantes a "median line destruction aka 1+2" which will wallsplat afterwards and he still has parry.

Half of the games of Jin i've seen either Korea or Japan, hell, even my games, were all done once Jin got their opponent cornered against the wall, there isn't much you can do about it other than guess right on a low or mid and block it, if you side step you die, before you could counter, but now you can't even do counters because uf2 is the new "scrub" move as some dude on the Tekken community said "just spam that move to win" lol

F'ing Jin in Tekken 7 man.
Good listings. I agree with most with a slightly different order.

#5 Paul. Does this really need explanation? Lol

#4 Katarina. Man she had some stupidity near the wall. One of the few with guaranteed oki damage that leads into free MKX type wall mixups. High wall damage, options for any type of counter that lead into more combo and resets. Dirty stuff.

#3 Jin. Eddy broke it down.

#2 King. Eddy broke it down. On top of that, no character makes you feel like you aren't playing against the wall than King. I had the misfortune of experiencing this for 3 months straight lol. You can't duck, you can't stand block, you can't wake up, you can't lay down, you can't push buttons, you can't do anything. Feels like the wall in T5 DR lol. Almost nerf worthy type of stuff.

#1 Devil Jin. Why? Why does this wall game exist? If I wrote it out I'd have to kill myself. Unfair wall game worthy of a different game lol.

Not having in-game frame data is simply Harada's choice, he feels like it takes away from the depth of the game to include it in the practice mode.

http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/news/2014/2/4/harada-on-revealing-frame-data-in-tekken-games.html

It is what it is, just gotta check RB Norway for frames and/or test what comes to mind in practice mode. To some extent, Harada is right. People could be too quick to dismiss or not test certain things for themselves if the frames are handed out. For newer players this decision obviously sucks complete and utter ass as they have no legacy knowledge and the grind might put them off from getting into Tekken.
I honestly love no frame data in Tekken. I learned the game so long ago that I have a "feel" for what's what, when to punish, what to punish with, etc. Hard to explain but you just "know" the frames of your moves and how to use them. When I transitioned to other games I didn't understand why people were so crazy about frame data. I get it now, but I can't really see it the say way I do in MK.

Do movement options differentiate between characters? Is Lili's side step faster and farther than King's? Does Law jump or run faster than Kazuya?
Yes to the first, no to the last. Different characters have different spacing and effectiveness with their sidesteps. Part of why some characters are better than others with it. Runs and jump are the same cast wide though.

Also, not sure if you knew but certain moves are much easier to sidestep if you know which direction to sidestep. For the most basic example, Paul's Phoenix Smasher can be easier side stepped to the right and full combo punished on the whiff for max damage. Eventually you learn the cast moves and the better direction to side step them for the best defense/punishing.

Are there any weird things with the different blockstun animations and walls and other variables that can happen? I know in MKx in some cases it's better to block either standing or crouching.
Well certain moves cause heavier block stuns. If they are negative the stun can throw off your follow up timing. Some are plus so you have to be careful and know who has what.

The moves that you can block both standing and crouching are few. It's mostly either block a low, stand block an OH, stand block or duck a high. All highs whiff over crouch block in Tekken. In Tekken mids are also overheads. Once you advance in the meta you can make good reads into your low crush or high crush moves, low parries, side stepping normals, etc.

When you're near a wall you have to know your opponents moveset. For Paul as an example again, it doesn't matter how many lows he does. Never, EVER, block low against the wall vs Paul. That's the same as unplugging your controller. So it's more character dependent than anything.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Never, EVER, block low against the wall vs Paul. That's the same as unplugging your controller.
Hearing you and @Eddy Wang describe Tekken makes me feel like it's the most broken game next to marvel and MKx. Yet somehow I don't see nearly the same amount of salt compared to Zero incoming mixups and Quan Chi 50/50s. Is there a reason for that? Maybe I need to go to a more Tekken based forum and get the real juicy salt.

"Why do anything else" JJ's GF, Jan 2016
1min 4 secs onwards lol
Just watched this. My point exactly. LOL so many Paul grunts for ridiculous damage.
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
@SaltShaker How big of a frame advantage do screw attacks/tailspins give on normal hit? For example if Jin hits me with his standing 4 am I forced to block a f4 or fF2 follow up? As in can't backdash, can't sidewalk, press buttons = get CH'd?

I have so many questions I don't know where to begin lol.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Hearing you and @Eddy Wang describe Tekken makes me feel like it's the most broken game next to marvel and MKx. Yet somehow I don't see nearly the same amount of salt compared to Zero incoming mixups and Quan Chi 50/50s. Is there a reason for that? Maybe I need to go to a more Tekken based forum and get the real juicy salt.


Just watched this. My point exactly. LOL so many Paul grunts for ridiculous damage.
It is, considering how dumb the damage output is this time around compared to the other tekkens, its really broken, imagine a character that is good in every single aspect of the mechanic, and the first one to fail in the neutral game is basically done, just like MKX and Marvel, 50-50 mixups in tekken were strong, this time they're stronger because it deals way too much damage out of their options, although is still character specific, Salt said before, the A+ character in T7 are on a league of their own, and that's basically the spot of the mishimas with heihachi exception, few characters on that same tier i believe is Hwoarang, Paul, and even Feng and Bryan are up there along with King and Dragunov.

Shaheen has his own tier because he is indeed a game breaking character, devil jin is a close second IMO.

@SaltShaker How big of a frame advantage do screw attacks/tailspins give on normal hit? For example if Jin hits me with his standing 4 am I forced to block a f4 or fF2 follow up? As in can't backdash, can't sidewalk, press buttons = get CH'd?

I have so many questions I don't know where to begin lol.
They're a big deal, not sure exactly how plus they're but its enough since Jin can keep you in check with his db4 and b21 if he hits you with it.

Meanwhile at the wall :p


 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
@SaltShaker How big of a frame advantage do screw attacks/tailspins give on normal hit? For example if Jin hits me with his standing 4 am I forced to block a f4 or fF2 follow up? As in can't backdash, can't sidewalk, press buttons = get CH'd?

I have so many questions I don't know where to begin lol.
Something like Jin's S4 isn't "uber" plus NH, but it's plus enough that you can't push buttons if he does a poke or a quick frame juggle attempt. I wasn't able to anything when hit by it. He'll get to apply his bulldog pressure. You can't risk getting CH so you have to block. Sidewalk gets you hit, I tried lol. Backdash I'm not sure, it may be possible, but if you can't sidewalk then you probably wouldn't be able to backdash I'd assume.

Haha I know the feeling. Tekken is like an addiction to me!
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
"Jdcr was demoted 13dan, vs someone Random player. He crash cabinet." :D

http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/news/2015/5/14/tekken-7-regarding-the-change-to-the-sidestepping.html

Ok so I've known for a long time that sidestep~block doesn't work as an offensive/defensive option select any more in T7.(as in make jabs/df1's whiff with ss, but still block homing moves). However in terms of basic string defence is sidestep-neutral still a viable option or do you just have to cancel the sidestep into sidewalk to make anything whiff? For example, lets say I know Devil Jin is gonna mash out bf2,1,2, can I still sidestep~neutral to my right side after the 2nd hit every damn time time when the string is blocked on-axis given the lenient buffering window of sidesteps or do I have to take my chances trying to time a sidewalk cancel from the sidestep to make the 3rd hit whiff?
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
What are your thoughts on damage reduction for all characters?
apart from Paul :p
I'd actually like to see a damage reduction tekken. I think the damage is too high in high level play. Especially with all the mixups and wall/floor shenanigans. So imagine what it feels like to the unknowing casual. I feel a damage reduction would help all levels of play. Which in turns helps increase the playerbase.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
"And...in my opinion... Only a few players newly start to play this game.
The players who play this game on arcade are the old tekken players

Can you imagine the new players who play on arcade by paying too much money?
The fighting game era was already ended.

I think, namco should release console version as soon as possible.
That's the best way to increase players..."
Please Harada. . . .:(:(:(

Topic: I rarely hear about the american players in US events complain about it, when they got the chance to play it

yeah see, western players? didnt even notice
SS is the system that mid skill players never fully get
western players dont SS much or barely even understand it - where as asians depend on it for their bread and butter setups

like how many western players know which way to step every move in tt2
pretty much every asian player will know off the top of their heads.
Yoooo @SaltShaker and western friends on blast:eek: But that's usual:coffee:
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Did the Jin player only learn how to do electrics after losing 2 rounds? no but really Jin is too solid, I wonder if they will change anything for Jin in FR
Electrics in this MU aren't much of a help, Hwoarang has some really long legs and some really fast pokes with his legs, its really hard to outspace a good Hwoarang. This is one of the reasons i think this MU is in Hwoarang's favor, the most effective way to beat hwoarang in T7 is by crushing his highs, but that won't be any easier considering the buff he got, he now has a safe advancing mid move to prevent that to happen.