End of 2015 MKX Tier list - UK Edition

[HeroesNZ]

Jax and D'Vorah I'd put in S-tier, or Mileena needs to be moved down. D'Vorah and Mileena are not in the same tier.

But yeah, Jax especially needs to be in S-tier. Also when are people gonna do Variation Tier-Lists - that I'd like to see.

 

[Tweedy]

The Brutalmileena guy is obviously enraged that his character who some said is bottom 2, is now considered very viable, without receiving too many buffs.

You're taking away his huge ego booster without giving him anything in return.

But yeah, Mileena is incredible. Anyone who thinks she is useless, Jason tier, or whatever, is delusional.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Kano in CT has

12f advancing mid, unreactable 5050s, good projectile, good d4, safe armour reversal, good damage, reasonable anti airs, advantage off of ex knife toss and a boarder line stupid corner game.

He's pretty much a better (safer) version of Sonya.

Kano is fun

 

[haketh]

Kano in CT has

12f advancing mid, unreactable 5050s, good projectile, good d4, safe armour reversal, good damage, reasonable anti airs, advantage off of ex knife toss and a boarder line stupid corner game.

He's pretty much a better (safer) version of Sonya.

I'll never understand how a character like this can be considered mid tier in thsi game at all

 

[BillStickers]

I'll never understand how a character like this can be considered mid tier in thsi game at all

The top tiers in this game have all of that and more.

 

[Rude]

I don't fully grasp D'Vorah's placement. Pokes with disjointed hitboxes, one of the best AA uppercuts you could ask for, gapless run cancel pressure that builds great meter and does decent chip, etc.

I know she doesn't have a guaranteed 50/50 anymore, but if you block her swap grenade cancel string and continue blocking expecting another, she can do it, then. Or, she can loop the string when you try to armor thinking she was going to go for the 50/50. That, in and if itself is a guess.

I think she's very strong.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I don't fully grasp D'Vorah's placement. Pokes with disjointed hitboxes, one of the best AA uppercuts you could ask for, hapless run cancel pressure that builds great meter and does decent chip, etc.

I know she doesn't have a guaranteed 50/50 anymore, but if you block her swap grenade cancel string and continue blocking expecting another, she can do it, then. Or, she can loop the string when you try to armor thinking she was going to go for the 50/50. That, in and if itself is a guess.

I think she's very strong.

All she lacks is a reversal, correct?

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

I don't fully grasp D'Vorah's placement. Pokes with disjointed hitboxes, one of the best AA uppercuts you could ask for, hapless run cancel pressure that builds great meter and does decent chip, etc.

I know she doesn't have a guaranteed 50/50 anymore, but if you block her swap grenade cancel string and continue blocking expecting another, she can do it, then. Or, she can loop the string when you try to armor thinking she was going to go for the 50/50. That, in and if itself is a guess.

I think she's very strong.

Zone her

 

[Pan1cMode]

Jacqui Briggs does not have poor mobility. She has some of the best mobility in the game.

What she suffers from is a lack of range. If they made one of her mids (f1, b1 or f2) 12 frames she's be so much better immeadiately. The fact that 4u4 is a bullshit input and that db1 is stupidly slow also holds her back (as well as her armour but I guess not every character can have everything).

 

[Rude]

Zone her

It's not even remotely that simple. For one thing, her f1 string advances far, as does get f2. Her d4 and d3 have great range as well.

Also...like every other character, she can run in. Make her reads, block and run until she gets into her footsie range.

Or she can block a projectile and Reversal puddle. Even if the next one you throw hits her, the puddle still launched you. So what happens is that she gets hit, you get launched and she recovers in enough time to, at the VERY LEAST, close the gap, or enough of the gap that she can start playing footsies.

 

[Tweedy]

The top tiers in this game have all of that and more.

In what game? Read what he posted. No they don't.

Not saying CT is better than the top tiers, but they do lack perks that he has.

 

[Rude]

All she lacks is a reversal, correct?

Look, I'm not one of those types to say that she "has no losing" match ups or anything like that.

I'm sure she has tough match ups, too. I just think that if this list is purely based on tools and not match ups, I don't see how her nuetral game tools aren't AT LEAST on par with say, Cage.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Look, I'm not one of those types to say that she "has no losing" match ups or anything like that.

I'm sure she has tough match ups, too. I just think that if this list is purely based on tools and not match ups, I don't see how her nuetral game tools aren't AT LEAST on par with say, Cage.

I'm a Sub-Zero main so I can't talk about D'Vorah without extreme salt/bias so I'll leave it at this: I think she is comparable to Sub, Cage, and Predator.

 

[Kaneki]

Just waiting for Liu to be god tier, don't mind me

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

4

It's not even remotely that simple. For one thing, her f1 string advances far, as does get f2. Her d4 and d3 have great range as well.

Also...like every other character, she can run in. Make her reads, block and run until she gets into her footsie range.

Or she can block a projectile and Reversal puddle. Even if the next one you throw hits her, the puddle still launched you. So what happens is that she gets hit, you get launched and she recovers in enough time to, at the VERY LEAST, close the gap, or enough of the gap that she can start playing footsies.

She has tools but she has a harder time getting in compared to the S tier characters her defense is not great that make her A+

 

[Rude]

4

She has tools but she has a harder time getting in compared to the S tier characters her defense is not great that make her A+

Between her uppercut, her fast d1, the range on d3 and d4 how does she not have good defense? If they jump on you, her d2 will beat out most jump in attacks, including Lao's j2.

Which means they have to try to run in or play footsies with her. If they run, you have d3 and d4 and f1. All of these normals have great range. The pokes she has are separate from her own hitbox, same for her uppercut.

So typically, the opponent will have to play footsies with her to get in and that is one area where she excels.

I'm sure she CAN get zoned out, but she has all of the tools except advancing armor you'd need to get in. So while I'm sure she has a harder time vs some zoners, I don't think it's that bad and certainly not so bad that "zone her" is the catch-all solution.

I will agree that her armor isn't great and for pressure where your only option is armor, I can agree. No one is saying she doesn't have losing match ups.

But does she have the same number of losing match ups as some of the others in the tier they have her in? I think not.

 

[Tweedy]

Between her uppercut, her fast d1, the range on d3 and d4 how does she not have good defense? If they jump on you, her d2 will beat out most jump in attacks, including Lao's j2.

Which means they have to try to run in or play footsies with her. If they run, you have d3 and d4 and f1. All of these normals have great range. The pokes she has are separate from her own hitbox, same for her uppercut.

So typically, the opponent will have to play footsies with her to get in and that is one area where she excels.

I'm sure she CAN get zoned out, but she has all of the tools except advancing armor you'd need to get in. So while I'm sure she has a harder time vs some zoners, I don't think it's that bad and certainly not so bad that "zone her" is the catch-all solution.

I will agree that her armor isn't great and for pressure where your only option is armor, I can agree. No one is saying she doesn't have losing match ups.

But does she have the same number of losing match ups as some of the others in the tier they have her in? I think not.

Her D1 is below average at 8 frames. Makes it hard for her to escape pressure when her armor sucks.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

Between her uppercut, her fast d1, the range on d3 and d4 how does she not have good defense? If they jump on you, her d2 will beat out most jump in attacks, including Lao's j2.

Which means they have to try to run in or play footsies with her. If they run, you have d3 and d4 and f1. All of these normals have great range. The pokes she has are separate from her own hitbox, same for her uppercut.

So typically, the opponent will have to play footsies with her to get in and that is one area where she excels.

I'm sure she CAN get zoned out, but she has all of the tools except advancing armor you'd need to get in. So while I'm sure she has a harder time vs some zoners, I don't think it's that bad and certainly not so bad that "zone her" is the catch-all solution.

I will agree that her armor isn't great and for pressure where your only option is armor, I can agree. No one is saying she doesn't have losing match ups.

But does she have the same number of losing match ups as some of the others in the tier they have her in? I think not.

Let s compare her to someone whose status is clear Takeda A+ his clear losing matchups are Lao Liu kang Tanya and maybe tremor Dvorah her losing matchups are Takeda Tremor Lui Kang Tanya Tremor maybe don t know about Lao. I also never said that she couldn t get in no A+ character can be completely shut down by zoning but her counter zoning tools sucks and stop her from having the best offense a great offense but far from the best+ a mediocre defense= A+

 

[Peckapowa]

@PND_Ketchup and @PND_Mustard you guys are big fans of Smite, right?

Are you familiar with how Dmbrandon does his periodic tier list streams? I think it'd be really cool if you guys did something like that after each major. You could invite a player that did well at that major on to talk about the characters, see if any changes should be made, talk about the event, etc. Would be fun to watch.

I haven't played smite in a quite hwile, i only play league now.....

but from what i have watched/played against, hel is the most broken character i have seen she's the one who needs toning down, i watched a match where she healed like twice as much as any character did damage, and she has good burst. She makes my main man ra kind of null. Serqet is widely considered s+ right now, but i was never good with, sol is op because shes new and can carry/mid, . There's like 4 guardians who are broke so i guess they are fine. A lot of stuff will get nerfed, but you ask me Bellona especially has had a ridiculous kit for quite sometime (i swear she can play any roll and be built in almost any way) , shes just so well rounded. Geb and Athena are always going to be amazing, personally i think geb is extremely strong especially if you can afford soul reaver, he's literally everything you could possibly want in a support. Thor will always be good because his teamfight is so strong. Wukong was topnotch because of bluestone, now you see a lot of zhong-kui

games taking a similar direction to league sort of right now, where chars like neith that can flex are really valued for teams, but some of the healing and escapes in smite are bit bonkers.


----edit
the aphro match i was talking about

 

[Rude]

Let s compare her to someone whose status is clear Takeda A+ his clear losing matchups are Lao Liu kang Tanya and maybe tremor Dvorah her losing matchups are Takeda Tremor Lui Kang Tanya Tremor maybe don t know about Lao. I also never said that she couldn t get in no A+ character can be completely shut down by zoning but her counter zoning tools sucks and stop her from having the best offense a great offense but far from the best+ a mediocre defense= A+

Mediocre offense? Are we talking about the same character? First of all, her f112 string has comparable range as Kotal Kahn's b122 string. So there's that.

On block, she gets three reps of the string without interruption. During this, if she chooses she can do her 50/50, instead if she expects that the opponent respects the frame trap. Once she's done, she's still at advantage. So she can bait armor, she can d4 and continue pressure on hit, she can throw. She can do 212 or stagger 21 and do d4. 212 will launch and the d4 will give her + frames on hit.

How on earth is the above "mediocre" pressure? This whole time, by the way, she's building meter.

I don't know enough about Takeda's match up chart to talk about him, but I'm pretty sure she has more winning match ups than Kano, who she shares a tier with allegedly.

And again, with the exception of like....Kitana or Summoner Quan or HQT Predator, I don't see any zoning in the game that's that bad. And with those characters, she's not the only one who has a hard time with their zoning, so I don't think that's a problem exclusive to D'Vorah.

Also, it's not like she has to get in their grill to start her pressure. All she needs to do is to get into d4,d3, or f1 range and then it's party time for D'Vorah.

@SaltShaker what do you think?

 

[TheGabStandard]

And the whole Mileena situation, I'm convinced since you lot lost saltface, there's been nobody to actually develop the character (and play the character with full application of theory) to show how good she is, until usedforglue.

I think that statement is a little unfair. There are quite a few of us who have been working hard to take the character further and make her the best as we can with new strategies, tech, new ways to deal with MUs etc.

However, these people and Mileena in general do have a severe lack of exposure on a tournament level, which is something that I hope changes in 2016. I am aiming to go to more tournaments this year so hopefully I can at least be one of those guys to show how good she can be.

 

[ZeroEffect]

I think that statement is a little unfair. There is quite a few of us who have been working hard to take the character further and make her the best as we can with new strategies, tech, new ways to deal with MUs etc.

However, these people and Mileena in general do have a severe lack of exposure on a tournament level, which is something that I hope changes in 2016. I am aiming to go to more tournaments this year so hopefully I can at least be one of those guys to show how good she can be.

Seems the problem is that, like most FGCs, people are just waiting for tourneys to determine how good a character can be instead of looking at tools, risk/reward, and matchups. This isn't just a Mileena thing either.

 

[Ns_Brutalmileena]

You already know I agree with you. I listened to the video also. I had a huge post to write about some things said and some things left out, but stopped halfway through and just erased it. I've said it too many times. You can spin it and make Jason and Kenshi sound top tier if you want to the way Mileena and Kano are apparently borderline Top 10 level characters lol. I'm inclined to let people believe what they want at this point and watch the same characters keep being used and placing in the process. I'll just patiently wait and bump threads in the summer/fall 2016 for some laughs like the Grundy guys did back in Injustice while using a far superior character.

D'Vorah life is a good life these days with literally zero complaints from me, so at this point I hope Kano gets nerfed because he's clearly too strong. Matter fact nerf Kano because if the top tier gets nerfed down then he'll be easily Top 10, borderline Top 5 right? Can't have that bro. Leave D'Vorah alone. Nerf Kano. This is my new stance.

My new favorite poster <3

 

[Ns_Brutalmileena]

I think that statement is a little unfair. There is quite a few of us who have been working hard to take the character further and make her the best as we can with new strategies, tech, new ways to deal with MUs etc.

However, these people and Mileena in general do have a severe lack of exposure on a tournament level, which is something that I hope changes in 2016. I am aiming to go to more tournaments this year so hopefully I can at least be one of those guys to show how good she can be.

Let's throw out gabs ESL showing cause usedforglue did great a week madzin and you didn't tap dat ass!!!
Also if a product is godlike you don't have to advertise to hard, people just buy it. Mileena will not get more known players anytime soon trust me, remember all those dam ermacs the beginning of season 1 ESL lol! Nuff said

Let's wait on more results from usedforglue as well....same guy who said "if you play Mileena correctly people who block her unsafe moves won't always punish" lol! "Cause there nervous "XD last time I checked if you can't punish moves this negative on block your bad or don't know the match up.
Sorry

 

[ZeroEffect]

@Ns_Brutalmileena You should probably ease up a bit, man. If you think about it, it's honestly a good thing that not every character is set in stone yet. Even if one of those characters is my main girl. Means the game hasn't become stale yet.

I appreciate insight from different players/regions as you can always take SOMETHING away from it. It's just their opinion. They're not in control of buffs/nerfs.