Video/Tutorial - Dragons Fire Liu Kang corner block trap

[I GOT HANDS]

And if you are armoring, it's BECAUSE he's at the end of the loop right? Although the plus frames let him go right back into the pressure safely right?

 

[Crathen]

You know you can react to his zoning right?

And get what 16% out an EX slide into no kind of oki IF he's in range? Or is the liu player dumb enough to shoot a fireball when i am in jump distance?

 

[getoverhere--->]

Leave Loop kang alone

 

[Enexemander]

And get what 16% out an EX slide into no kind of oki IF he's in range? Or is the liu player dumb enough to shoot a fireball when i am in jump distance?

If you don't want the opponent to have any options, there's a game mode for that.

It's called practice mode.

 

[xXxNasHxXx]

Give every character a 6-7f d1 and problem solved. No need to ask for unnessecary nerfs.

 

[WITNESS]

And get what 16% out an EX slide into no kind of oki IF he's in range? Or is the liu player dumb enough to shoot a fireball when i am in jump distance?

Or jump when see a low fire ball and when you see the high. In dragon's fire you would rarely see the mid fireball but you can still jump over that

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

And if you are armoring, it's BECAUSE he's at the end of the loop right? Although the plus frames let him go right back into the pressure safely right?

That's the guess.

F213 rc 3x end in FK mb and is +1 or +2 depending on where on the opponent the last kick hits.
Kang then does:

frame perfect f2 (this gets beat by 6-7 frame attacks, trades with 8 frame attacks, and gets beat by armor / 7 - 8 frame reversals.

Frame perfect B1 (this beats 7 frame normals and most armor attempts but loses to low profiling moves, some armor, 8 frame reversals. B12 if blocked ends his pressure unless he goes to spend another bar on FK mb)

 

[Genei Jin]

Just curious and trying to learn the match-up, if he armour breaks can he combo? I don't see that much B1 being used


If you feel that you have no options vs Sub in the corner, you really need to learn the match up man. His corner game is strong, and the rest of the character is balanced around it. However, even with all the tradeoffs Sub makes for his corner game, it still aint even close to the level of this. You can ALWAYS do something vs Sub.

Oh I know theres always some options vs sub zero no matter how shitty for some characters. Same with Liu Kang.
And I was joking about asking for an ice clone nerf.

However, his ice clone does make a lot of match ups bad for a lot of characters. Last I checked, GM vs Sun God is an 8-2 match up.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

Give every character a 6-7f d1 and problem solved. No need to ask for unnessecary nerfs.

you dont balance the game around a dumb loopable block infinite, stop trolling

 

[Crathen]

If you don't want the opponent to have any options, there's a game mode for that.

It's called practice mode.

It's also called Liu Kang block pressure

But again risk / reward you have to admit it's not good.

 

[Genei Jin]

Missing the point huh?

A good bunch characters gets zoned to death by Liu Kang and have to either take risks like jumpins / use meter on armor or slowly crawl into his range and he gets in whenever he wants and starts block pressure / throws / b2 / f4 , his neutral game is stupid good along w the meter he builds , his is risk free pressure , imagine if characters like Erron Black or Sonya had low fireball and when you got in you'd have to deal w 50/50s.

Except both Erron Black (especially Gunslinger) and Sonya (Special Forces) have low projectiles. In fact, Erron Has 2 low projectiles, overhead projectile (iirc) and one of the better mid projectiles in the game.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

One of the biggest down falls in NRS programming is having characters with anywhere from 6-13 frame d1/d3/d4.

I never understood it.

 

[Crathen]

Or jump when see a low fire ball and when you see the high. In dragon's fire you would rarely see the mid fireball but you can still jump over that

That's the MU 101 , what happens when you stay still looking for a fireball and liu decides to run b2 or run into f213 , you confident you can react to that?

 

[Crathen]

Except both Erron Black (especially Gunslinger) and Sonya (Special Forces) have low projectiles. In fact, Erron Has 2 low projectiles, overhead projectile (iirc) and one of the better mid projectiles in the game.

And still Liu outtrades all of those since his low FB is faster on startup and has good recovery.

 

[Enexemander]

I think at the end of the day all this nerf lobbying is useless.

I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see any balance changes until KP2 comes out (if then). As that is the reality, isn't it more beneficial to learn the match-up? Especially when plenty of Liu mains are willing to help you guys figure out the available options and grind matches.

Best case scenario for the whinging is getting Liu nerfed (again, like every patch) the next balance patch. Which will be around SF5 release anyway, so whatever.

 

[xXxNasHxXx]

you dont balance the game around a dumb loopable block infinite, stop trolling

if other characters gets a faster poke then it will never be a loopable block infinite.

 

[Asodimazze]

Or jump when see a low fire ball and when you see the high. In dragon's fire you would rarely see the mid fireball but you can still jump over that

Jump a low fireball and get anti aired 100% of the time on reaction fullscren thanks to dragon kick or some other starter if you do that at midscreen distance.
Some characters like Cage can't jump a low fireball without getting hit by successive low fireball too.

People downplay Liu Kang way too much

 

[I GOT HANDS]

That's the guess.

F213 rc 3x end in FK mb and is +1 or +2 depending on where on the opponent the last kick hits.
Kang then does:

frame perfect f2 (this gets beat by 6-7 frame attacks, trades with 8 frame attacks, and gets beat by armor / 7 - 8 frame reversals.

Frame perfect B1 (this beats 7 frame normals and most armor attempts but loses to low profiling moves, some armor, 8 frame reversals. B12 if blocked ends his pressure unless he goes to spend another bar on FK mb)

Thanks for the knowledge. So basically, you always have the option of armour, however he has options to counter it (frame perfect B1, or block+punish), but it will catch an attempt to go straight into armour. If I'm reading it right.


Regardless, the option should never be "armour or breaker or die", theres nothing wrong with loopable pressure or combos, but it should also STOP eventually on its own or at least give a meterless option to escape the reset at the end on the correct read.

Oh I know theres always some options vs sub zero no matter how shitty for some characters. Same with Liu Kang.
And I was joking about asking for an ice clone nerf.

However, his ice clone does make a lot of match ups bad for a lot of characters. Last I checked, GM vs Sun God is an 8-2 match up.

And thats the biggest outlier.

GM's reliance on the clone and how it's mileage is very match-up dependant, and the fact the entire character is balanced around it regarddless, also makes some match ups just as bad from the opposite direction, like D'Vorah (any variation) or Quan Chi (any variation), for examples.






Let's not make this thread about the person starting it, let's keep it to the actual points hes made and whether or not they are right or wrong.

 

[Agilaz]

I think at the end of the day all this nerf lobbying is useless.

I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see any balance changes until KP2 comes out (if then). As that is the reality, isn't it more beneficial to learn the match-up? Especially when plenty of Liu mains are willing to help you guys figure out the available options and grind matches.

Best case scenario for the whinging is getting Liu nerfed (again, like every patch) the next balance patch. Which will be around SF5 release anyway, so whatever.

Can't wait to see SR Takeda's options

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

People downplay Liu Kang way too much

This may be true but when well known players are creating the mob mentality based on misinformation, it seems right to point out flaws in their logic so people learn how to approach the mu instead of just complain.

Some of this information may seem like downplaying but it's not.

 

[Parasurama]

Jump a low fireball and get anti aired 100% of the time on reaction fullscren thanks to dragon kick or some other starter if you do that at midscreen distance.
Some characters like Cage can't jump a low fireball without getting hit by successive low fireball too.

People downplay Liu Kang way too much

You are probably jumping too early or far away. Liu Kang cant anti air most jump kicks. He is only able to trip guard effectively.

 

[Prinz]

Pfffffffff. No one gets zoned to death in mkx
@General M2Dave

#BuffQuanChi

 

[Genei Jin]

And still Liu outtrades all of those since his low FB is faster on startup and has good recovery.

you are telling me to imagine what happens i have to deal with erron black and sonya had low projectiles from far and their 50/50s from close range. My answer is they already had those low projectiles and i don't need to imagine them having it.

As for taking risks jumping against liu kang. go for it, his anti air and air to air normals are ass.

 

[JDM]

Liu kangs pressure is retarded!!! (Plays sub zero and face fucks you all day with an ice clone in the corner and doesnt say how stupid that is). Btw doesn't johnny have something similar with his ex forceballs into f3?

Johnny's stuff isn't nearly as stupid as this honestly. Johnny is great but he never has you in a block infinite or a situation like this.

 

[Parasurama]

Also it is not an actual block infinite! The frame advantage after the FK meter burned is only 1-2 plus, there are quite a few characters with similar advantage, and also many characters with way more frame advantage after burning meter or ex. After the FK meter burned it is a mind game, and people should actually learn their options, because there are counters for all of LK's choices too. If Takeda is the only one who cant get out of the pressure (which I cannot verify) then he should get help, because I doubt this is the only match up it applies to, if that is the case.