Strategy - Unstoppable Getting off (with) Jason's buffs in Unstoppable

[Hidan]

In the match-ups you've played, in what situations have you found it more worthwhile to activate either Punishment or Rise? I suppose that near the end of the round with less than 30% health remaining for both Jason and his opponent, Punishment would be the go-to since Rise heals only 5%?

Is there any good reason to use the enhanced buffs (at least Corpse Walk) at all?

I know this is quite dependant on the person, but have you studied the mental conditioning/effect each buff has on your opponents? Rise with its health regeneration and glowy mask, and Punishment with the chain of doom and fancy hit sounds.

I'm glad I get to talk about these things.

Firstly, I highly recommend against using bars for buffs... and breakers to a point, but Jeremiah is right about the breaker - resurrection combination, though I believe you need all 3 bars to pull this off. Other than that, armor and calculated resurrections are the way to go

Secondly, I also believed that punishment would induce fear, but the joke's on me, because I'm thinking of this limited 4.5 sec duration it has and I'm going yolo :/
But, I'm working on it

So for now, I use rise, unless if I'm at full health, or opp has health that I can chip out

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Yeah I think I'm gonna main Unstoppable for awhile now. It depends on how mad I get at Dizzy's d4 though. Rise seems the way to go midscreen unless you are full health, or you get a good feeling on opening your opponent up in the next 4.5 sec.

I do like ex punishment (rampant) in the corner off of our BnB landing. b1,1,2,b1,1,2,1,1,1,bf3. You get those extra frames and you will have enough time to armor grab for close to 20% damage 1 bar if you read wakeup, or them blocking. Or go right into 1,1,1,bf3 for some solid damage if you read jump, and still get some decent chip if they block.

Also 1,1,1,bf3 on block when the opponent is cornered needs to be looked into more. It is -6 with pushback. Jason would then be at a great distance to anti-air grab or uppercut jump outs (and uppercuts lead to enough time to buff again on airborne opponents.) Or Jason could b1, command grab on read of the opponent blocking. Or armor grab if you read the opponent attacking with a string or special, or you could loop back into 1,1,1, bf3 on read of respect as well.

 

[Hidan]

Ok ok. I'll add more Unstoppable info

I did some Unstoppable testing tonight, and before I begin I just want to say Jason is the most fun I have had playing MKX, and I might go back to maining him.

Unfortunately I am going to have to state that I have found my 3rd bug with Jason already in my tests. It has to do with Resurrect.

When Jason has 1 bar left when he resurrects he gets very slightly over 10% health left. So it is either 10.X% health left or 11% health left.
2 bars left he gets under 16% health. So it is either 15% health back, or 15.X%.
3 bars left he gets over 25% health, but it is also definitely under 26%. So it is 25.X% health back. Unless Ermac's force push in mystic really doesn't do 11% like it says.

But what is odd about these numbers is that Jason gets the most amount of health back per bar, if he has 1 bar left.
He gets the least efficient amount of health back when he has 2 bars.
When he gets 3 bars of health it goes back up in efficiency better than 2 bars, but worse than 1 bar.

I don't know what they are trying to do with resurrect. Either the bug is they want each bar to give back about 8% health which would make it 8,16,24 which is very close to what it is now and they accidentally gave the first bar more health than they wanted.

Or the bug is they want each bar to be 10% health and the first bar number is correct, but the 2 bar and 3 bar numbers are off.

The choice on when to resurrect or not will depend on the matchup. If the opponent has high projectiles, and has to get in to finish you off as Jason, you can probably get away with resurrecting with as little bars left, because they would still have to touch you one last time.

If they opponent has a mid projectile and can chip you out, you want to resurrect with more health left. I am going to say in the majority of matchups you probably want to resurrect with slightly over 1 bar so you have over 12% health so a throw will not be able to kill you.

Unstoppable Jason does get something that no other character gets, and that is breaker and resurrect. The opponent having to open you up, then you break, then the opponent has to open you up again and you rez. Then the opponent has to open you up a third time to kill you. Unstoppable Jason might be pretty good against characters that don't have a mid projectile.

GGA lvl of research

I approach resurrection differently. While the point after getting up is how long can you last till outzoned as you mentioned, there are those 2 occasions where
1) you got beaten by a cornered opp. So, even if the whole K.O. animation sent you full screen, there is no place for them to retreat
2) you got beaten while cornered and you are too close

I have these happen almost always when it's time to resurrect (meaning they don't have much remaining health). So, I use resurrection based on both meters and opp's health bar for now

 

[Hidan]

Yeah I think I'm gonna main Unstoppable for awhile now. It depends on how mad I get at Dizzy's d4 though. Rise seems the way to go midscreen unless you are full health, or you get a good feeling on opening your opponent up in the next 4.5 sec.

I do like ex punishment (rampant) in the corner off of our BnB landing. b1,1,2,b1,1,2,1,1,1,bf3. You get those extra frames and you will have enough time to armor grab for close to 20% damage 1 bar if you read wakeup, or them blocking. Or go right into 1,1,1,bf3 for some solid damage if you read jump, and still get some decent chip if they block.

Also 1,1,1,bf3 on block when the opponent is cornered needs to be looked into more. It is -6 with pushback. Jason would then be at a great distance to anti-air grab or uppercut jump outs (and uppercuts lead to enough time to buff again on airborne opponents.) Or Jason could b1, command grab on read of the opponent blocking. Or armor grab if you read the opponent attacking with a string or special, or you could loop back into 1,1,1, bf3 on read of respect as well.

111bf3 is a must even in midscreen. After conditioning them in the 4th hit, you go into 111dbf2. By the time they realize the last attack didn't hit, you can attack again (this was performed by REO).

I pushed it a little bit further. After training them to 111dbf2, you can start doing only 11 to stagger them (because of the simple input, it's hit confirmable if both jabs hit)

There is even one more step that I rarely use, it's risky, but worth the confusion you're gonna create. 1dbf2. For those who may have forgotten, this is a tick throw. On hit though it may be punishable, haven't tested yet.

Once you mix these up, ppl will start pressing buttons. It's a pity d1 and b3 don't have mixups in followups

 

[Qwark28]

ok look, I just came back from our weekly casual session. The last 2 sundays I play only Unstoppable, to the point I don't feel comfortable with relentless now. We play winner stays, best of 5. It usually takes 4 turns to throw me out. Now before anyone says something bad about my MKX partners, they know their shit. It's just their characters don't have threads like this.

I studied the original post for about 10 mins, got some combos in my head to end with BF3, gave up the jip's combo opportunity for jik's better hitbox and tracking (in crossups) and buff opportunity and I have to say... unstoppable may not be better than relentless, but is surely more solid. Also unstoppable forces you to reach a higher level of meter management.

So ppl, the OP is highly informative and IMO practical. Thank you GGA Jeremiah

I would like to discuss any details I've already gathered, as we have nothing from unstoppable gameplay, like when the buffs are really safe, what to choose and how important resurrection can be. Can you get the Jasons' attention to this thread? or should I go to general discussion, cause unstoppable threads have spider webs in them

Only blood god vs jason

 

[Hidan]

Only blood god vs jason

Well, Jason doesn't kneel, so frustrate him. Man, midscreen bnb is literally 13% on this guy

 

[Qwark28]

Well, Jason doesn't kneel, so frustrate him. Man, midscreen bnb is literally 13% on this guy

Jason kneels. The problem is he only does so in combos because he has too many mindgames to press a button or not to midscreen and I think the footsie is slightly in his favour.

Sun god vs jason feels like the variation is a slight damage boost. Best thing to do is pick blood god and throw EX sun cola while having the obsidian totem out.

I will still pick sun god but this time ill press less buttons

 

[Hidan]

Jason kneels. The problem is he only does so in combos because he has too many mindgames to press a button or not to midscreen and I think the footsie is slightly in his favour.

Sun god vs jason feels like the variation is a slight damage boost. Best thing to do is pick blood god and throw EX sun cola while having the obsidian totem out.

I will still pick sun god but this time ill press less buttons

I'm so into Unstoppable, I watched "Jason Lives" again the other day

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

I'm so into Unstoppable, I watched "Jason Lives" again the other day

Billy under the bed:
"So, what were you gonna be when you grew up?"

 

[Hidan]

Billy under the bed:
"So, what were you gonna be when you grew up?"

Hahaha, fearless

Then receives "salty" stare

 

[BiPolarExxpress]

I'm going to start messing around with this variation as well. Lake Mist just seems to get worse and worse each time I use it.

 

[Alien Substance]

I'm glad I get to talk about these things.

^_^

Firstly, I highly recommend against using bars for buffs... and breakers to a point, but Jeremiah is right about the breaker - resurrection combination, though I believe you need all 3 bars to pull this off. Other than that, armor and calculated resurrections are the way to go

I see.

Secondly, I also believed that punishment would induce fear, but the joke's on me, because I'm thinking of this limited 4.5 sec duration it has and I'm going yolo :/
But, I'm working on it

So for now, I use rise, unless if I'm at full health, or opp has health that I can chip out

I've learned to ignore the short duration and focus more on patiently finding an opening to start hitting the opponent, even if it means only a few hits are imbued with extra damage or none at all: it's better than losing health for predictably attempting to make use of the damage. To induce fear, one must let the opponent know that he/she has something to fear. I like to use Punishment + Spine Shatter.

The two hits of the EX move are executed in quick succession, so it's more likely that both hits will deal extra damage before Punishment falls off. I think a 25% health loss from a single EX special (with Punishment) is nothing to laugh at. Afterwards, the opponent is likely to be more wary of the glowing chain of doom. (Still dependant on the opponent.)

@GGA Jeremiah
If Jason were to resurrect with half, one-and-half or two-and-a-half bars of meter, does the incomplete bar add to his health, or does it go to waste?

 

[Hidan]

Got the time to do some labbing yesterday

I wanted to get maximum dmg with bf3 ender in midscreen. Got this:
b122, b1, b122, b1, 11bf3 -- 25-26%

It's tight though and works on normal hurtboxes like sub zero

Also was curious if meter building from chip is relevant to the amount of dmg (in MK9 only number of hits mattered for meter), so we still get something out of punishment in case we don't open them up.

And it IS relevant, but not so effective. You need 8× b12 on block to build a bar, 6× with dd3.
6× 111, 5× with dd3. Worth mentioning though

If Jason were to resurrect with half, one-and-half or two-and-a-half bars of meter, does the incomplete bar add to his health, or does it go to waste?

That too, Resurrection needs FULL bars, the rest go to waste. Tougher meter management, less dilemma sometimes

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

^_^

@GGA Jeremiah
If Jason were to resurrect with half, one-and-half or two-and-a-half bars of meter, does the incomplete bar add to his health, or does it go to waste?

Not sure. Only labbed precise bars for now.

Also was curious if meter building from chip is relevant to the amount of dmg (in MK9 only number of hits mattered for meter), so we still get something out of punishment in case we don't open them up.

And it IS relevant, but not so effective. You need 8× b12 on block to build a bar, 6× with dd3.
6× 111, 5× with dd3. Worth mentioning though

Are you sure about this? I am pretty sure 1 blocked move builds the same amount regardless of damage. You are probably building that extra amount of bar by actually activated dd3 and not because it is doing more damage.

I know that The Final Friday string does like over 1% damage on block on the first hit, and the second hit does .2% damage on block. They both build the same amount of meter. I know that there is at least a minimum amount you build per hit even if you did super low damage. You might be able to build more meter on block after a certain threshold. Like X-Rays on block build a little more than normal and they are 5% on block usually. But that could just be hard coded for x-rays.

 

[Eldriken]

I'm going to start messing around with this variation as well. Lake Mist just seems to get worse and worse each time I use it.

I rely entirely too much on Dark Pursuit to ever make the switch to Unstoppable.

 

[BiPolarExxpress]

I rely entirely too much on Dark Pursuit to ever make the switch to Unstoppable.

It's better than Unstoppable in most matchups, but some can pretty much do whatever they want to avoid pursuit.

 

[Eldriken]

It's better than Unstoppable in most matchups, but some can pretty much do whatever they want to avoid pursuit.

The only character that ever gives me trouble with it is Kung Lao since they can just do up down to teleport and press whatever random button and hopefully get the throw.

 

[Rembo]

All the things mentioned here make total sense. It would be nice if Jasons damage was buffed on his other 2 variations besides Slasher, And he could actually counter poke he would be pretty fun to use. It was rough watching Reo get locked down at TFC by Cassie. He didn't have a chance in hell

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

The only character that ever gives me trouble with it is Kung Lao since they can just do up down to teleport and press whatever random button and hopefully get the throw.

Many characters have option selects that deal with Dark Pursuit. Let's look at Raiden for an example. Superman is his only special move that has a B,F input. All Raiden has to do when he sees Dark Pursuit is activating is input F,B + all 4 inputs and Superman will ALWAYS come out and punish Jason before he can block. This will remove Dark Pursuit.
Johnny Cage's Shadow Kick is another example of this.

Fun Fact: If you input the commands for 2 special moves there is a priority list the game uses to choose what special move will come out. Cassie Cage has bf1 and a bf4 input. Bf1 is gunshot, and bf4 is rising kick. Gunshot will always come out if both 1 and 4 are pressed at the same time. I am assuming the priority list is 1 before 2, before 3, before 4.

So in short. All you need to deal with Dark Pursuit is an advancing special or projectile that can hit Jason before he can block. Even if you have an input that competes with another like Cassie does, you know gunshot will come out and stop Dark Pursuit.

I have not looked into the entire cast to see how many have OS's to deal with Dark Pursuit, but it has to be a decent number. Poor Jason.

 

[Eldriken]

Many characters have option selects that deal with Dark Pursuit. Let's look at Raiden for an example. Superman is his only special move that has a B,F input. All Raiden has to do when he sees Dark Pursuit is activating is input F,B + all 4 inputs and Superman will ALWAYS come out and punish Jason before he can block. This will remove Dark Pursuit.
Johnny Cage's Shadow Kick is another example of this.

Fun Fact: If you input the commands for 2 special moves there is a priority list the game uses to choose what special move will come out. Cassie Cage has bf1 and a bf4 input. Bf1 is gunshot, and bf4 is rising kick. Gunshot will always come out if both 1 and 4 are pressed at the same time. I am assuming the priority list is 1 before 2, before 3, before 4.

So in short. All you need to deal with Dark Pursuit is an advancing special or projectile that can hit Jason before he can block. Even if you have an input that competes with another like Cassie does, you know gunshot will come out and stop Dark Pursuit.

I have not looked into the entire cast to see how many have OS's to deal with Dark Pursuit, but it has to be a decent number. Poor Jason.

This is why 100% reversed controls are needed for Dark Pursuit. =( EVERYTHING should be changed. X could be up, R2 could be down, etc. It should be completely randomized every single time as well.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

This is why 100% reversed controls are needed for Dark Pursuit. =( EVERYTHING should be changed. X could be up, R2 could be down, etc. It should be completely randomized every single time as well.

Oh yeah and mapped throw is always throw! Disable that too!

I would be find with EX Pursuit to completely randomize everything. Make the opponents a bumbling mess, just like the victims in the movies.

 

[Hidan]

Are you sure about this? I am pretty sure 1 blocked move builds the same amount regardless of damage. You are probably building that extra amount of bar by actually activated dd3 and not because it is doing more damage.

I know that The Final Friday string does like over 1% damage on block on the first hit, and the second hit does .2% damage on block. They both build the same amount of meter. I know that there is at least a minimum amount you build per hit even if you did super low damage. You might be able to build more meter on block after a certain threshold. Like X-Rays on block build a little more than normal and they are 5% on block usually. But that could just be hard coded for x-rays.

maybe I'm a fool and didn't notice that, so it's just more dmg, but the difference can't help in a match either way

Many characters have option selects that deal with Dark Pursuit. Let's look at Raiden for an example. Superman is his only special move that has a B,F input. All Raiden has to do when he sees Dark Pursuit is activating is input F,B + all 4 inputs and Superman will ALWAYS come out and punish Jason before he can block. This will remove Dark Pursuit.
Johnny Cage's Shadow Kick is another example of this.

Fun Fact: If you input the commands for 2 special moves there is a priority list the game uses to choose what special move will come out. Cassie Cage has bf1 and a bf4 input. Bf1 is gunshot, and bf4 is rising kick. Gunshot will always come out if both 1 and 4 are pressed at the same time. I am assuming the priority list is 1 before 2, before 3, before 4.

So in short. All you need to deal with Dark Pursuit is an advancing special or projectile that can hit Jason before he can block. Even if you have an input that competes with another like Cassie does, you know gunshot will come out and stop Dark Pursuit.

I have not looked into the entire cast to see how many have OS's to deal with Dark Pursuit, but it has to be a decent number. Poor Jason.

I gave away this info to my buddies, by the moment i realized it a few months ago, to have them stop complaining. But, with chars like KL and goro, regular pursuit gets punished always. Only Dark Pursuit remained for this variation, whose bars I would like to spend on something else. And that's when unstoppable started giving me the looks

I'm going to start messing around with this variation as well. Lake Mist just seems to get worse and worse each time I use it.

It's better than Unstoppable in most matchups, but some can pretty much do whatever they want to avoid pursuit.

Once you start messing around with the chain and some resurrections, you'll see when and where you need either variation

 

[Hidan]

since I have feedback and we have a thing going here, I'll try to record my matches one of the sundays. Hopefully things will get more interesting then

 

[BiPolarExxpress]

since I have feedback and we have a thing going here, I'll try to record my matches one of the sundays. Hopefully things will get more interesting then

That'd be great. Never see to much unstoppable. I still can't believe how useless EX heal is lol.

 

[Hidan]

That'd be great. Never see to much unstoppable. I still can't believe how useless EX heal is lol.

Sry, couldn't provide, we play "winner stays" and I have either lost my touch or they leveled up too fast cause I can't take a single set. Can't even play relentless nowadays. Only slasher wins me sets now