Strategy - Unstoppable Getting off (with) Jason's buffs in Unstoppable

[GGA Jeremiah]

I would like this thread to be all things Punishment and Rise and Resurrect discussion.

Punishment: (D,D, 3) Is a move where Jason gets a 1.3 damage multiplier for about 4.5 real life seconds (counting after you can actually move.) Comes out in 46 frames.

Rampant: (EX D,D, 3) EX version of Punishment. This version gets a 1.5 damage multiplier for 4.5 real life seconds. Comes out in 38 frames.

Rise: (D,D, 4) Is a move where Jason heals for 5% over the course of about 6.5 real life seconds. Comes out in 46 frames.

Corpse Walk: (EX D,D,4) EX version of Rise. This version heals Jason for 5% over the course of about 6.5 real life seconds. Comes out in 38 frames. ONE OF THE WORST, IF NOT THE WORST, EX MOVES IN MKX. This move is so bad I think it has to be considered a bug.

Now let's look at damage differences between Unstoppable and Relentless. I'll just choose a regular move and a bnb combo.

UNSTOPPABLE.
Normal Uppercut is 14%
Punishment Uppercut is 18.2%
Rampant Uppercut is 21%

Bnb (B1,2,2, B1, 2,2, 1,1,1, DF 1) Note: This combo lasts almost exactly 5 seconds, if you do not land this combo instantaneously you will not get full damage because your buff will fall off.

Normal: 25%
Rise bnb: 33%
Rampant bnb: 37%

RELENTLESS.
These values will come with 5 numbers. The first value is Jason 100-50 health, 49-25, 24-10, 9-5, 4-0% respectively. (NOTE: I found a bug where Jason had 4% health left and he was only doing the 33% damage boost. I will do further testing. This needs to get fixed because Jason DOES NOT get his 50% damage boost until somewhere in the 4% to 2% health left area.)

Uppercut: 14%, 15.4%, 16.8%, 18.62%, 21%
BnB: 25%, 28%, 30%, 33%, 38%

Ok now for the discussion part.

Lets discuss the damage differences between Relentless and Unstoppable. In this discussion we are going to assume that the 5% healing that Jason gets is as good as adding 5% damage to his combos. (I know this is not always the case but in general we are going to assume that healing 5% is as good as doing 5% damage.

Here are a list of moves that guarantee on hit that Rise and Rampant will come out. We can assume that adding Rise at the end of one of these adds 5% because of the guaranteed heal.

Jump Kick.
NJK. The frame data somewhere is wrong. According to the frame data I should not be able to NJK Cassie and get out a buff without eating a wakeup flip kick, but I do.
2,3
2,4
3,2,d1. (Also wrong frame data) Cassie could not wakeup flip kick in time.
b1,2,2
F2
F3
F4,4


Combos. I propose a new combo for Unstoppable Jason mains.
B1,2,2, B1,2,2, 1,1,1, bf3. This drops the 25% bnb down to 23% but lets you get out Punishment or Rise, your choice. Rise adds the damage exchange up to 28% because he heals for 5% at the end. Or you can go for Punishment and try to get the damage buff damage in.

Also if you do this new combo Ermac cannot punish even with wakeup teleport. Let me know if there is a character with a faster full screen punish and I will try it out to see if it can stuff Jason.

Unstoppable Jason now has a way to get out either of the buffs he wants with this new combo, and it will do more guaranteed "damage" than Relentless by using Rise until Relentless gets to 24% health or lower.

This took a little longer to write than I thought, but soon I will add my findings about Unstoppable's Resurrect passive.

@YOMI REO @Big D @Kinetic Balding1 @Eldriken @BiPolarExxpress Sorry other Jasons, I am tired and can't remember who else wanted to be in the Jason discussions. I will go back and read that thread and add you guys soon.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

TLDR.

These moves guarantee the Rise or Punishment buff on hit.

Jump Kick
NJK
2,3
2,4
3,2,d1
b,1,2,2
F2
F3
F4,4

Unstoppable's bnb should be B1,2,2,B1,2,2, 1,1,1, BF3. Then add Rise or Punishment at the end, your choice.

Found a bug in Relentless where Jason had 4% health left and did not get his 50% damage buff like he should. He gets the buff somewhere between 4%-2% health left.

Corpse Walk (D,D, 4 EX) is such a bad move that it has to be considered a bug.

Unstoppable has more damage exchange in the BNB combo than Relentless until Relentless has 24% health or lower.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Unstoppable desperately needs his damage buff to last longer.

 

[CoolChameleon]

They should change The name of this variation to Verystoppable

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

@YOMI REO Just confirmed tonight that Jason's Relentless damage stack does not increase to 50% until you are AT 3% health or Lower. So the 33% extra damage is through the health values of 10%-4%. Kinda sucks, hopefully they fix it next patch.

 

[Haou Shoukou Ken]

@YOMI REO Just confirmed tonight that Jason's Relentless damage stack does not increase to 50% until you are AT 3% health or Lower. So the 33% extra damage is through the health values of 10%-4%. Kinda sucks, hopefully they fix it next patch.

Stop crying and level up breh, jasons fine

 

[Hara-Killer]

Jason Rise should be at least 10 seconds and Punishment 3.0 Damage and EX 9.0 in 5 Real seconds , with that Jason Unstoppable will terrify everyone

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Jason Rise should be at least 10 seconds and Punishment 3.0 Damage and EX 9.0 in 5 Real seconds , with that Jason Unstoppable will terrify everyone

I firmly agree. My opinion is that Unstoppable Jason is the worst character in the game.

 

[Hara-Killer]

I firmly agree. My opinion is that Unstoppable Jason is the worst character in the game.

Not the WORST but One of The WORST =/

 

[BiPolarExxpress]

Weird, tag didn't give me an alert. I honestly like the idea of the power ups, but it's way to situational. You don't have a quick way to open people up, so the damage buff feels useless at times. Also, EX healing buff is nonsense. I can see certain uses of the variation, but I'll take Relentless over it any day. The teleport is a little underrated, and I'd rather have pursuit off of a knockdown then a 5% health gain. I do like the work done behind this though, well done.

 

[Alright RyRy]

Buff Jason, too fun to play to be horrible. Please

 

[Hidan]

My opinion is that Unstoppable Jason is the worst character in the game.

Slasher is worse.
Nice write up on the OP

I'm experimenting these days in counter picking whatever I don't seem to beat with relentless and thus far unstoppable is better against goro

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Unstoppable needs the buffs to recover faster and have better effects. At the very least the EX ones. That or he should be still able to get Killing Machine.

As it stands, Unstoppable might as well be variationless + an extra 5% health at the end of matches...lol that's sad

 

[Hidan]

Unstoppable needs the buffs to recover faster and have better effects. At the very least the EX ones. That or he should be still able to get Killing Machine.

As it stands, Unstoppable might as well be variationless + an extra 5% health at the end of matches...lol that's sad

if unstoppable gets killing machine, IMO there will be no reason to play relentless anymore

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

if unstoppable gets killing machine, IMO there will be no reason to play relentless anymore

I din't think so. He still doesn't have the teleport that Relentless is best used for. Also his damage buff is active as opposed to passive

 

[Hidan]

I din't think so. He still doesn't have the teleport that Relentless is best used for. Also his damage buff is active as opposed to passive

"the pursuit that Relentless is best used for" fixed ;P

Teleport is a move that can't punish almost anything on reaction, gets punished if anticipated, or pressured in a better case. We have to spend a bar to make it safe and we still may not get any dmg. Even against GM or some heavy zoner, an EX pursuit is more promising

killing machine is such a tool in a non slasher variation, you have to activate it with slasher to understand the frustration. They will just backdashing and jumping and you won't be able to do anything. They can even mock you by blocking. Non machete killing machine though... phew, it ensures victory when your opp is 25% or below, even if you have the same health.

EX pursuit is the main reason this variation is still being played, IMO

Yes, punishment is active and for quite a little time, when damned is permanent. But, how many chances will you get to use damned from 50-1%? it starts at 50%, that's an amount of health that most of the cast can take with a combo and some pressure afterwards. if you use breaker on the combo, you'll surely get chipped out. I'm not trying to downplay here, you can be a master and come back with 5%, but look at this:

damned needs to be in the brink of destruction to get noticed

punishment can be used after certain situations (every midscreen combo is a useful situation) and gives the amount damned gives at 9-5% (it may also strike some fear because chain glowing :O)

Now, I may exaggerate over some stuff, but if you take them into consideration, you'll see some bitter truth in them (whispers: lake mist ssuuucks)

 

[WT_Neptune]

Why not research Pursuit stuff while you're at it. I feel like this would have been the time to analyze it.

 

[Hidan]

Why not research Pursuit stuff while you're at it. I feel like this would have been the time to analyze it.

what do you mean?

we know where to pull it off, its duration, optimal combos for reactivation... what else?

 

[WT_Neptune]

what do you mean?

we know where to pull it off, its duration, optimal combos for reactivation... what else?

Who is we? I don't know these things. lol

 

[RM Ree]

I firmly agree. My opinion is that Unstoppable Jason is the worst character in the game.

Please note Unbreakable Sub-Zero.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Please note Unbreakable Sub-Zero.

Not even close. Unbreakable Sub has many more options than Jason has.

 

[Hidan]

Who is we? I don't know these things. lol

well the thread is irrelevant with pursuit and relentless in general, search the forums for relentless threads

But, to give you something. End your midscreen combo with f44 - pursuit. Also if during pirsuit you end a combo in dbf2 or do a raw dbf2 and by the time jason is done with the throw, screen has returned to normal, you can reactivate it after the throw's hard knockdown

In both situations if your opp is well conditioned and tries to run or wake up with an advancing move, do the ex version

 

[Hidan]

I firmly agree. My opinion is that Unstoppable Jason is the worst character in the game.

ok look, I just came back from our weekly casual session. The last 2 sundays I play only Unstoppable, to the point I don't feel comfortable with relentless now. We play winner stays, best of 5. It usually takes 4 turns to throw me out. Now before anyone says something bad about my MKX partners, they know their shit. It's just their characters don't have threads like this.

I studied the original post for about 10 mins, got some combos in my head to end with BF3, gave up the jip's combo opportunity for jik's better hitbox and tracking (in crossups) and buff opportunity and I have to say... unstoppable may not be better than relentless, but is surely more solid. Also unstoppable forces you to reach a higher level of meter management.

So ppl, the OP is highly informative and IMO practical. Thank you GGA Jeremiah

I would like to discuss any details I've already gathered, as we have nothing from unstoppable gameplay, like when the buffs are really safe, what to choose and how important resurrection can be. Can you get the Jasons' attention to this thread? or should I go to general discussion, cause unstoppable threads have spider webs in them

 

[Alien Substance]

ok look, I just came back from our weekly casual session. The last 2 sundays I play only Unstoppable, to the point I don't feel comfortable with relentless now. We play winner stays, best of 5. It usually takes 4 turns to throw me out. Now before anyone says something bad about my MKX partners, they know their shit. It's just their characters don't have threads like this.

I studied the original post for about 10 mins, got some combos in my head to end with BF3, gave up the jip's combo opportunity for jik's better hitbox and tracking (in crossups) and buff opportunity and I have to say... unstoppable may not be better than relentless, but is surely more solid. Also unstoppable forces you to reach a higher level of meter management.

So ppl, the OP is highly informative and IMO practical. Thank you GGA Jeremiah

I would like to discuss any details I've already gathered, as we have nothing from unstoppable gameplay, like when the buffs are really safe, what to choose and how important resurrection can be. Can you get the Jasons' attention to this thread? or should I go to general discussion, cause unstoppable threads have spider webs in them

In the match-ups you've played, in what situations have you found it more worthwhile to activate either Punishment or Rise? I suppose that near the end of the round with less than 30% health remaining for both Jason and his opponent, Punishment would be the go-to since Rise heals only 5%?

Is there any good reason to use the enhanced buffs (at least Corpse Walk) at all?

I know this is quite dependant on the person, but have you studied the mental conditioning/effect each buff has on your opponents? Rise with its health regeneration and glowy mask, and Punishment with the chain of doom and fancy hit sounds.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

So ppl, the OP is highly informative and IMO practical. Thank you GGA Jeremiah

Ok ok. I'll add more Unstoppable info

I did some Unstoppable testing tonight, and before I begin I just want to say Jason is the most fun I have had playing MKX, and I might go back to maining him.

Unfortunately I am going to have to state that I have found my 3rd bug with Jason already in my tests. It has to do with Resurrect.

When Jason has 1 bar left when he resurrects he gets very slightly over 10% health left. So it is either 10.X% health left or 11% health left.
2 bars left he gets under 16% health. So it is either 15% health back, or 15.X%.
3 bars left he gets over 25% health, but it is also definitely under 26%. So it is 25.X% health back. Unless Ermac's force push in mystic really doesn't do 11% like it says.

But what is odd about these numbers is that Jason gets the most amount of health back per bar, if he has 1 bar left.
He gets the least efficient amount of health back when he has 2 bars.
When he gets 3 bars of health it goes back up in efficiency better than 2 bars, but worse than 1 bar.

I don't know what they are trying to do with resurrect. Either the bug is they want each bar to give back about 8% health which would make it 8,16,24 which is very close to what it is now and they accidentally gave the first bar more health than they wanted.

Or the bug is they want each bar to be 10% health and the first bar number is correct, but the 2 bar and 3 bar numbers are off.

The choice on when to resurrect or not will depend on the matchup. If the opponent has high projectiles, and has to get in to finish you off as Jason, you can probably get away with resurrecting with as little bars left, because they would still have to touch you one last time.

If they opponent has a mid projectile and can chip you out, you want to resurrect with more health left. I am going to say in the majority of matchups you probably want to resurrect with slightly over 1 bar so you have over 12% health so a throw will not be able to kill you.

Unstoppable Jason does get something that no other character gets, and that is breaker and resurrect. The opponent having to open you up, then you break, then the opponent has to open you up again and you rez. Then the opponent has to open you up a third time to kill you. Unstoppable Jason might be pretty good against characters that don't have a mid projectile.