What's new

Should Throw Teching be Adjusted?

Would you like Throw Techs to be Adjusted? (You can't change your vote)

  • Yes (Share how)

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I may get blown up for making this thread, but seriously, throws are fucking dumb in this game.


Where pressure and offense is already something you need to keep on your toes, the ability to throw someone because they are already scared shitless of your relentless pressure is dumb.

What makes throws really frustrating(in my opinion) is that not only is it a guess but you can't tech throws while holding block.

If teching would be adjusted, I would like the ability to tech on block to be implemented, while still leaving the 50/50 concept in the game.
Why on earth should you be able to tech a grab whIle holding block? Not every character has relentless pressure and 50/50's so throws being strong makes sense. If throws could be teched while blocking the risk would go away and you'd always be able to cover 2 options.

Throws are fine as is. You can neutral crouch throws and blow them up pretty badly. Like @Slips said you can os by pressing a button after neutral crouch.
 

LeftOverShark

Tick Throw Specialist
I agree with Mike, it would be nice for you to be able to tech throws while blocking. This may be a little off the threads path, but say you don't adjust the throw tech mechanic of the game? What if throws were made slightly weaker like about 1-2% to make up for the advantage of opening up your opponent with a throw? Just an idea to kick around. 10-11% throws don't seem all that bad.
 

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
As a KOF player 50/50 throws are fine. They don't do a lot of damage, you can't run while attempting a throw etc...

As a MKX player they do around 12-16% (Some characters get a throw buff like Shinnok), does damage for each successful tech albeit not much, and I have to duck them. Blocking is auto-grab. Eh.

I don't really have an issue with grabbing in this game. I feel it is a very important part of some character's gameplans. I think they could allow for things like being able to block and tech (Decrease the frames allowed to tech to account for this) but the main mechanic is fine really. I know I voted yes, but mainly to adjust the mechanic, not to replace it.

Online you ain't teching shit though so if you're coming from there, sorry but 8 frame delay does that.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
There are some things the community has a gripe about and I either silently agree or take a neutral stance to see if it's just salt or not. But this one is ridiculous and I'm sick of hearing about it. Some characters rely on the strike/throw style of opening someone up and throws need to be strong for these characters.

Can you imagine Foxy with KL in the corner today if you could block and still break throws? People would just get up, hold block and mash 2 and Foxy would be forced to use the throw that you toss them out of the corner and his offense would've been over. It would change the Quan Chi match up to a 5-5 to like a 4-6 or worse.

Careful what you wish for and think about all the repercussions before you ask for it. #monkeyspaw
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
There are some things the community has a gripe about and I either silently agree or take a neutral stance to see if it's just salt or not. But this one is ridiculous and I'm sick of hearing about it. Some characters rely on the strike/throw style of opening someone up and throws need to be strong for these characters.

Can you imagine Foxy with KL in the corner today if you could block and still break throws? People would just get up, hold block and mash 2 and Foxy would be forced to use the throw that you toss them out of the corner and his offense would've been over. It would change the Quan Chi match up to a 5-5 to like a 4-6 or worse.

Careful what you wish for and think about all the repercussions before you ask for it. #monkeyspaw
Or instead of just implementing one change. NRS really thinks about it and implements an anti mash system. Like what blazblue has. Or how you can TAC every direction in UMvC3. There's more to this than just 50/50 or no 50/50. Tech while holding block or not holding block. Plenty of characters without crazy offense have won by KO in plenty of games man.

Look at all the best characters in the game and then ask yourself if throws are why they're top. Seriously this game has so much shit in it and people are bitch in about fucking throws...
I'll bitch about quan's guessing game. Day 1 run cancel pressure. Heck I even bitched about Scorpion Flame aura. But that's not what this thread is about. If you make a thread about some crazy top tier tactic and tag me, I'll be happy to come in and voice my complaints, if I have any.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Or instead of just implementing one change. NRS really thinks about it and implements an anti mash system. Like what blazblue has. Or how you can TAC every direction in UMvC3. There's more to this than just 50/50 or no 50/50. Tech while holding block or not holding block. Plenty of characters without crazy offense have won by KO in plenty of games man.


I'll bitch about quan's guessing game. Day 1 run cancel pressure. Heck I even bitched about Scorpion Flame aura. But that's not what this thread is about. If you make a thread about some crazy top tier tactic and tag me, I'll be happy to come in and voice my complaints, if I have any.
I don't even understand what your point is with this.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Or instead of just implementing one change. NRS really thinks about it and implements an anti mash system. Like what blazblue has. Or how you can TAC every direction in UMvC3. There's more to this than just 50/50 or no 50/50. Tech while holding block or not holding block. Plenty of characters without crazy offense have won by KO in plenty of games man.


I'll bitch about quan's guessing game. Day 1 run cancel pressure. Heck I even bitched about Scorpion Flame aura. But that's not what this thread is about. If you make a thread about some crazy top tier tactic and tag me, I'll be happy to come in and voice my complaints, if I have any.
Even with an anti mash mechanic it would be stupid. You could just time throw techs at certain points within the strings where people will most likely go for a grab at pretry much 0 risk.

In most 2d fighters back is block and pressing a button overrides the block animation. So if you do press a button to tech you whiff a normal or grab animation. In that case it could be baited and whiff punished.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
I don't even understand what your point is with this.
The part were I say "There's more to this than just 50/50 or no 50/50 . . ." If you're problem with block + tech is that low/no mixup characters will fall off then that could be remedied with a anti-tech-mash system change. Like how Capcom made it where if you crouch and grab, you get grab.

Basically why only talk as if just the one change would be made and that's it. That's not how you'd talk about buffing/nerfing characters so why talk about overall game changes that way too.

The second part isn't to you.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Even with an anti mash mechanic it would be stupid. You could just time throw techs at certain points within the strings where people will most likely go for a grab at pretry much 0 risk.

In most 2d fighters back is block and pressing a button overrides the block animation. So if you do press a button to tech you whiff a normal or grab animation. In that case it could be baited and whiff punished.
I disagree on that part. If I get you to try and tech and lock you out for 16f (random number) then immediately throw that would just end up in you getting thrown.

I think the same thing or something similar could happen in an NRS game. I mean they took out the ability to hold block and mash an armor move. I think they could have something where you have to throw if you hold block and throw break. I make the suggestion because anytime people talk about throw techs, the possibility isn't really discussed.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I disagree on that part. If I get you to try and tech and lock you out for 16f (random number) then immediately throw that would just end up in you getting thrown.

I think the same thing or something similar could happen in an NRS game. I mean they took out the ability to hold block and mash an armor move. I think they could have something where you have to throw if you hold block and throw break. I make the suggestion because anytime people talk about throw techs, the possibility isn't really discussed.
OK let's say you are locked from teching for 16f while blocking. I fake a throw and you press a button, not only do I have no idea if you tried to tech but you can still just let go of block to evade the throw which results in a full combo punish. You can mash a button from neutral to stop a high attack or throw. It would not work. Even with a lock out for 16f you would still have other 2nd chance options.
 

JJV Phoenix

I'm not Vak goddamnit
How about a system that rewards throw techs? Since a tech leaves both players in the same state, how about leaving the player that attempted the throw at a slight amount of -frames?

Then again, there's plenty of ridiculous stuff in the game already where your reward for making a good read is "welp, I hope I guess right again."
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
If we wanna talk about things to to look at at some point we need to talk about the timer in this game cuz damn is time not a factor at all in this game
There was a thread on it. I'm pretty sure it was unanimous that a lower timer would work just fine and I think people were asking for timer options we don't currently have because the in game timer seconds is longer than real time seconds. But I guess that got lost in the hype of KP2 and ForeverKing vs Wound Cowboy.

Oh funny thing is, MKx even says "Winning by running out the timer is a perfectly viable strategy." I don't know which character in which MU can that be done but I'd love for NRS to let us in on it.
OK let's say you are locked from teching for 16f while blocking. I fake a throw and you press a button, not only do I have no idea if you tried to tech but you can still just let go of block to evade the throw which results in a full combo punish. You can mash a button from neutral to stop a high attack or throw. It would not work. Even with a lock out for 16f you would still have other 2nd chance options.
The problem I have with what you're saying is that it's assuming that if you got baited you just defaulted to neutral ducking. The offensive player still has options and the defending player doesn't have to duck. But thanks for talking about it. I feel if we went any deeper we'd have a whole different grab game on our hands lol. But I will say, I'd like to see grabs either:
A) Have a tech for each direction but different animations.
B) Stay the same but you can tech while holding block.
C)Grabs can be teched with one input. (was injustice this way?)
D) Maybe a mix of the above options.
 

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
What @buyacushun is referring to, @Slips is the Throw Reject Miss system Arc Sys games use. @Scoot Magee described how it worked pretty much. You basically can't mash the window, and if you are caught trying to I.E Not in the frames where you are supposed to, get grabbed anyway.

However, what some people don't realize when discussing mechanics is that those games are a B2B (Back 2 Block) system and MKX is a Button to Block game. Grabs need to be a key feature in this system. Grabs are hardly what I would even consider broken as is really, they work as intended and while some may not like the fact they have to tech or take damage to tech, hey there's enough fighting games out there that just might have the engine and mechanics for you.

Personally this isn't a direct shot at anyone but I feel like people cannot get across that A: NRS wants the games like this. B: They want throws to be powerful options and that means for everyone. Or C: Abuse cheap shit when given and then you give them a reason to patch it or consider patching it. I don't even find throws cheap or broken.

I find teching them really isn't hard either. Do YOU wanna be the guy that puts himself in the corner just to get a 12% health lead which could dissipate in a matter of seconds? If you have a plan, then go ahead. Just watch for the fact that now you decided to put yourself into a corner. What I mean is, unless the opponent is in the corner? I would just always expect a forward throw. Also depends on the character. Do they have a teleport? Do they need to worry about the corner being a possibility?

I feel like though, it has become more of a discussion in MKX because the game is just that much faster. To me this is a fast paced game so I won't disagree, but can't agree either.
 
Last edited:

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
What @buyacushun is referring to, @Slips is the Throw Reject Miss system Arc Sys games use. @Scoot Magee described how it worked pretty much. You basically can't mash the window, and if you are caught trying to I.E Not in the frames where you are supposed to, get grabbed anyway.

However, what some people don't realize when discussing mechanics is that those games are a B2B (Back 2 Block) system and MKX is a Button to Block game. Grabs need to be a key feature in this system. Grabs are hardly what I would even consider broken as is really, they work as intended and while some may not like the fact they have to tech or take damage to tech, hey there's enough fighting games out there that just might have the engine and mechanics for you.

Personally this isn't a direct shot at anyone but I feel like people cannot get across that A: NRS wants the games like this. B: They want throws to be powerful options and that means for everyone. Or C: Abuse cheap shit when given and then you give them a reason to patch it or consider patching it. I don't even find throws cheap or broken.

I find teching them really isn't hard either. Do YOU wanna be the guy that puts himself in the corner just to get a 12% health lead which could dissipate in a matter of seconds? If you have a plan, then go ahead. Just watch for the fact that now you decided to put yourself into a corner.

I feel like though, it has become more of a discussion in MKX because the game is just that much faster. To me this is a fast paced game so I won't disagree, but can't agree either.
Yeah that's exactly what I'm talking about. IDK the exact ramifications such a system would have on a block button game. It's just that it seems like the answer to giving people a tech they want and securing people that are worried about block pressure characters. But everyone is usually 1 or 2 in some discussions. (A trend I noticed throughout this forum.)

I personally don't think throws are broken. But I do find them cheap and the guessing nature of them uninteresting.

When I have an opponent in the corner I tend to go for more buttons than throws. Especially if I think I have them scared enough that they're waiting for the pause for when I'll throw.
 

infamy23

FireBeard
A lot of pressure starts with high attacks. Jax jab pressure, KL's jab pressure, Cage jab pressure ect. So when you think the pressure is gonna stop you can double your chances of getting out by holding down and mashing a button. Preferably the button you think they want to throw with. If you just neutral duck you'll get hit by the next attack in the string which is usually mid whereas you hitting a button got you out of the pressure as well as teching a throw.

Not to mention neutral ducking will get you hit by all lows, mids and overheads that you might've been able to poke out of if you were hitting a button.

Is this not common knowledge?
Fair enough. I still think that neutral duck or armor is the better option in most situations, but you have made me realize that mashing a tech is a viable option sometimes.

So on second thought, I think the system is fine the way it is.

If you make a hard read on a throw, you get a huge punish. Or you can take a bit less risk, and go for a tech. I guess that's reasonable.

At least it's not like Guilty Gear where throws are 1 frame and untechable.