Should Throw Teching be Adjusted?

[themagiccan2]

Maybe increase the start up frames of a throw. They are really freaking fast

edit: actually, why not make the whiff a lot longer, so that neutral ducks on hard reads are more rewarding

 

[Dja_Homies]

@A F0xy Grampa the throwing legend

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Nah i main JC, and he doesn't have any low starters. He could use the ghetto mixups w/ throws. This can be applied to anyone that doesn't have a 50/50 imo

 

[infamy23]

WELL THROWS ARE QUICK STARTUP 30/30/30s

Not really.

I've never tried to tech a throw in my life, because there's no point. So the 3rd option you're referring to is not really an option.

If you think they're gonna throw, then you duck.

If you think they're gonna attack, then you block.

Teching is not an option, because it makes no sense to even try and tech. So the left/right aspect of throws is irrelevant.

I guess the only exception is when you are stuck in hitstun, because you can't duck, so you're forced to tech.

 

[Xev]

I'd prefer a bigger window (nothing huge, just a little bit) but still make it so they have to let go of block to tech so you can't just mash it while blocking.

 

[Jolt]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what happens in my matches, but:

Don't throws whiff if you shift from crouch block to stand block (or vice versa) when the throw is coming? I've definitely had people dodge throws while still holding block and FOR SURE not releasing. I'm guessing it's probably because some characters lean back slightly.

 

[16 Bit]

EDIT: What actually makes less sense to me is how reverse throws apparently have a faster start-up than the forward throw, something I've never seen in a fighting game other than MKX. WHAT DUH?

This is not actually true

 

[Slymind]

I think it would be cool if you could tech while blocking, just have guess the side.

 

[Rude]

No.

 

[Akromaniac27]

I think the problem lies also with that fact that throws have some stupid range. Like at the range where most pressure heavy characters' throw start from, you'd expect another move to be able to reach. Which that too, this game is fast paced with equally as fast throws. When you're trying to scout for under 10f lows, mids, and/or pokes, having to guess whether to BLOCK or not on top of all that AND which direction to even tech in, is pretty dumb.

 

[buyacushun]

No matter what I hate the 50/50 aspect of throws. But It'd be less frustrating if I could tech while blocking. I would love a different animation for back and forwards throw to reward good reactions AND reads. Maybe make throw whiff a bit longer. Don't allow regular throws to grab ducking limbs.

It's funny. This conversation was already had before and I wonder if anything will be different this time.

People have already come in worrying about mashing throws (the game can have systems in place to block mash attempts). People worrying about low offense characters (with anti-tech-mash systems you can bait throw techs and really take advantage of the crazy pressure and plus frames characters like JC have).

To me it's really just a matter if there could be a near consensus agreement like lowering the clock. (Why are we not doing that) And if NRS would actuallly take the time to change it. If not for MKx then maybe for injustice 2.

 

[Crimea]

i hate only one thing: throw is high, but beats low pokes

 

[Akromaniac27]

No matter what I hate the 50/50 aspect of throws. But It'd be less frustrating if I could tech while blocking. I would love a different animation for back and forwards throw to reward good reactions AND reads. Maybe make throw whiff a bit longer. Don't allow regular throws to grab ducking limbs.

It's funny. This conversation was already had before and I wonder if anything will be different this time.

People have already come in worrying about mashing throws (the game can have systems in place to block mash attempts). People worrying about low offense characters (with anti-tech-mash systems you can bait throw techs and really take advantage of the crazy pressure and plus frames characters like JC have).

To me it's really just a matter if there could be a near consensus agreement like lowering the clock. (Why are we not doing that) And if NRS would actuallly take the time to change it. If not for MKx then maybe for injustice 2.

Meh, I personally have no hopes for INJ 2. THREE games in a row and we STILL get shit online, lopsided balancing, and of course, more and more useless DLC content like easy fatalities and poor AF skins. IDK about anyone else, but the amount of revenue NRS gains from all this, I would expect at the very LEAST, legit online and a game with way less bugs than these 3 have put out. Some testing that gets done there, I swear....

 

[Slips]

I don't understand why they were fine in MK9 yet for some reason people have a problem with them in this game even though they work the same way.

Throws are perfect the way they are. They shouldn't change at all. You're risking getting full combo punished for 12% and this is a problem? The logic is baffling to me.

 

[infamy23]

I don't understand why they were fine in MK9 yet for some reason people have a problem with them in this game even though they work the same way.

Throws are perfect the way they are. They shouldn't change at all. You're risking getting full combo punished for 12% and this is a problem? The logic is baffling to me.

This thread is about throw techs, not throws.

If teching throws was not even possible, I'd be fine with the throw system. But why even include the ability to tech throws, if you can just duck for the same risk, but a way better reward?

Remove it from the game if it's gonna be nearly useless, same as block breakers.

 

[TarkatanDentist]

Yeah, I definitely agree that throws should be able to be teched while blocking, especially since it's a 50/50 guess anyway.

On a personal level, I also don't think that teched throws should deal any damage at all, but I'm aware that's a more heavily debated aspect...

 

[Slips]

This thread is about throw techs, not throws.

If teching throws was not even possible, I'd be fine with the throw system. But why even include the ability to tech throws, if you can just duck for the same risk, but a way better reward?

Remove it from the game if it's gonna be nearly useless, same as block breakers.

Teching throws, which is just pretty much just holding down and mashing a button, works as an option select for getting out of pressure along with getting out of a throw. It's a 'safer' way of getting out of pressure/throw mix-up. Jumping works too but you are reward with space instead of frame advantage.

Whereas a neutral duck is more of a hard read of a throw coming to get a full combo punish. It's a high risk maneuver considering you'll get him by any low or mid attack, but the reward is great if you are right.

Throw teching definitely serves a purpose. If neutral ducking was so good you'd see it more often.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Throws are fine, they need to be strong so you can condition people that's all.

Works well for certain characters because they're not gonna open you up with anything else.

 

[Airvidal]

That's risky asf, cuz if you make the wrong read and they hit you with another combo then ggs

I mean, that's what it's all about. Reads. You make the wrong read, you pay for it.
I think that people just don't wanna spend the extra time in learning the new system. I see more and more people(me included) teching more consistently as the game grows older.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

I mean, that's what it's all about. Reads. You make the wrong read, you pay for it.
I think that people just don't wanna spend the extra time in learning the new system. I see more and more people(me included) teching more consistently as the game grows older.

I tech throws a lot to, and I get what this new technique is. I played against @xarakamaka and he was doing it to me. After I knew how it works, I would just bait him to neutral duck now, then hit him with f21d2(Ermac). For example, s1, walk forward a tiny bit to bait neutral duck. Then blow his shit out

 

[buyacushun]

I don't understand why they were fine in MK9 yet for some reason people have a problem with them in this game even though they work the same way.

Throws are perfect the way they are. They shouldn't change at all. You're risking getting full combo punished for 12% and this is a problem? The logic is baffling to me.

I never liked pure guessing. I wasn't really into MK9 like that. If i was, you can bet you wouldv'e heard my complaints if asked.

 

[Airvidal]

I tech throws a lot to, and I get what this new technique is. I played against @xarakamaka and he was doing it to me. After I knew how it works, I would just bait him to neutral duck now, then hit him with f21d2(Ermac). For example, s1, walk forward a tiny bit to bait neutral duck. Then blow his shit out

And props to you for doing it, that's how the fighting games work, mixing it up. Something you already know, I've seen you fight, you're great.

EDIT: But I don't think neutral ducking is the strategy for it. It works but I'd rather block and tech, either way if you don't go for a grab I'll interrupt your pressure as I'm tapping one of the two correct buttons to tech.

 

[infamy23]

Teching throws, which is just pretty much just holding down and mashing a button, works as an option select for getting out of pressure along with getting out of a throw. It's a 'safer' way of getting out of pressure/throw mix-up. Jumping works too but you are reward with space instead of frame advantage.

Whereas a neutral duck is more of a hard read of a throw coming to get a full combo punish. It's a high risk maneuver considering you'll get him by any low or mid attack, but the reward is great if you are right.

Throw teching definitely serves a purpose. If neutral ducking was so good you'd see it more often.

Can you give me a specific example? Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see too many situations where you'd want to mash a button instead of just ducking.

Most throws come at you when you're at minus frames. If you mash a button, you're going to eat a counter hit if they decide to attack instead of throw.

Seems like the exact same risk as neutral ducking to me.

Yesterday in pools, Dragon did b12+4 TC throw against Foxy. Foxy teched the throw. I can see how one might think this is a good situation to mash throw tech. But if you think about it, Foxy was at +8 in this situation so the throw tech was just a side effect of him reacting late to the teleport cancel. In other words, it was an accident.

If Foxy had reacted immediately, he could have just done a full combo.

If he reacts late (like he did), he would have been better off pressing d1 instead of d4, because then he would have gotten a counter hit (+15) instead of a throw break (neutral).

So if he intentionally mashed d4 in order to option select the throw tech, (which is what you seem to be describing), then his decision makes no sense to me.

If you're at advantage, and you think someone is gonna pressure or throw, then just counter hit them and take your plus frames or free combo.

If you're at disadvantage, and you think someone is gonna pressure or throw, then ducking and mashing throw tech have the exact same risk.

So in what situation is mashing the best option?

 

[RM_NINfan101]

i think block teching with the 50/50 mechanic is fine

 

[Slips]

Can you give me a specific example? Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see too many situations where you'd want to mash a button instead of just ducking.

Most throws come at you when you're at minus frames. If you mash a button, you're going to eat a counter hit if they decide to attack instead of throw.

Seems like the exact same risk as neutral ducking to me.

Yesterday in pools, Dragon did b12+4 TC throw against Foxy. Foxy teched the throw. I can see how one might think this is a good situation to mash throw tech. But if you think about it, Foxy was at +8 in this situation so the throw tech was just a side effect of him reacting late to the teleport cancel. In other words, it was an accident.

If Foxy had reacted immediately, he could have just done a full combo.

If he reacts late (like he did), he would have been better off pressing d1 instead of d4, because then he would have gotten a counter hit (+15) instead of a throw break (neutral).

So if he intentionally mashed d4 in order to option select the throw tech, (which is what you seem to be describing), then his decision makes no sense to me.

If you're at advantage, and you think someone is gonna pressure or throw, then just counter hit them and take your plus frames or free combo.

If you're at disadvantage, and you think someone is gonna pressure or throw, then ducking and mashing throw tech has the exact same risk.

So in what situation is mashing the best option?

A lot of pressure starts with high attacks. Jax jab pressure, KL's jab pressure, Cage jab pressure ect. So when you think the pressure is gonna stop you can double your chances of getting out by holding down and mashing a button. Preferably the button you think they want to throw with. If you just neutral duck you'll get hit by the next attack in the string which is usually mid whereas you hitting a button got you out of the pressure as well as teching a throw.

Not to mention neutral ducking will get you hit by all lows, mids and overheads that you might've been able to poke out of if you were hitting a button.

Is this not common knowledge?