Dedlock
Apprentice
She plays nothing like her MK9 iteration? MKX CO Sonya is a whole different character. She's basically been rebuilt from scratch.specially if you played her in MK9. T
She plays nothing like her MK9 iteration? MKX CO Sonya is a whole different character. She's basically been rebuilt from scratch.specially if you played her in MK9. T
Doesn't an air grab and military stance remind you of anything? She's a powerful rushdown character in MK9/MKX. She has MS mixups in MK9/MKX. She has an air grab in MK9/MKX. I'm not saying CO is better than her MK9 iteration (even though her 50/50s are a lot more deadly in this game IMO), but it's similar.She plays nothing like her MK9 iteration? MKX CO Sonya is a whole different character. She's basically been rebuilt from scratch.
As for Special Forces, I've been in practice mode with this variation for a while and still don't "get it" I'm not sure how to pressure, how to get damage, how to anything. Maybe there's nothing to understand and I'm trying to hard, and just need to zone.
@Espio didn't you used to play this variation?
I did a while ago, it's the coolest Sonya variation there is to me. I played it mostly as a zoning/footsie build and you can use the projectiles for plus frames, safeness etc. It seems more complicated than it is, but think of it as like a mix of Batman and Sinestro's traits. It's like a pressure tool, zoning tool, meter less breaker, and trap creator.As for Special Forces, I've been in practice mode with this variation for a while and still don't "get it" I'm not sure how to pressure, how to get damage, how to anything. Maybe there's nothing to understand and I'm trying to hard, and just need to zone.
@Espio didn't you used to play this variation?
Yes they are similar in name only,Doesn't an air grab and military stance remind you of anything?
We definitely have totally different opinions about the character we play. Let this discussion die.Yes they are similar in name only,
MK9 ms and MKX ms are completely and utterly different.
Air grab? Atleast her air grab worked in MK9. Now it loses out to most aerial attacks.
You have to do the input at the last hit of the string you want to cancel it into.Low drone will not come out half the time. It's bizarre. It's like it has some unique cancel window that randomly select decides to not exist occasionally.
Yeah, even then it doesn't seem to be very consistent.... B33 xx Low Drone seems VERY inconsistent even with that timing.You have to do the input at the last hit of the string you want to cancel it into.
It is.Yeah, even then it doesn't seem to be very consistent.... B33 xx Low Drone seems VERY inconsistent even with that timing.
Also wtf is this that we have this arbitrary cancel window?????
tried telling him lmao. This was very accurateEasiest in the game? Parries are not easily executed, it takes time and practise, all her mix ups everything are death penalty punishable. Her damage is moderate at best.
People like predator, Kung Lao and Kung Jin are easy execution pick up and play characters that are beginner friendly, Sonya in any Variation needs some time, covert ops is the easier variation of her three but overall in the game, definitely not.
The low drone timing is why I jumped off SF in the beginning. Wanna learn it still though.(But seriously, we should definitely be asking for her drone cancels to be fixed before NRS is done with this game. This is absurd. Even if I only miss 1 out of every 5 times, that 1 time I miss is going to be full-combo punishable.)
Yeah this has been posted before, but you have to test things on a tech-rolling opponent. Tech rolling destroys that setup easily.
For defensive options, I think you've ranked it a little low. She has wake n bake on wakeup rememberI put this in the "rate your character" thread recently. Was sort of interested to see if others agreed/disagreed on these points. I found in places she was quite hard to rate.
Scores came out 73 and 65, which seem low, but I thought during each individual category I was being quite optimistic... I guess that's my years of being grateful for any passing grade in college. D's get degrees
But yeah, my numbers are pretty relative, but the descriptions on each were my honest thoughts:
For Sonya, Demolitions and Covert Ops. I'm still not at a position with Special Forces where I can make a solid judgment.
1. 50/50 mix ups
Demolitions: 8/10 Standard high/low 50/50, but bolstered by the fact grenade followups can make them safe.
Covert Ops: 10/10 If you have to block her, you are probably going to get hit.
2. Pressure
Demolitions: 7/10 needs to reload, so loses pressure after every knockdown. However, grenades have the ability to be used as frame-traps, so long as Sonya doesn't become predictable.
Covert Ops: 5/10
3. Neutral game and footsies
Demolitions: 8/10 b1 and f1 are really good buttons. Fast run, and tossing a grenade mid screen every now and then gives her solid control. Up-close buttons are a mixed bag though. d1 is 8 frames, good enough. d3 and d4 have uber-low-to-the-ground hitboxes that make them get beat out by alot. Good speed though.
Covert Ops: 6/10 Has all the advantages and disadvantages above, but doesn't have grenades which allow her to sort of "footsie zone" in demo. Also doesn't really have good juggles off her normals if the opponent jumps out.
4. Defensive options
Demolitions: 5/10 armor is ehhh. It gets the job done in a pinch, but is definitely behind the armor of most other characters. Backdash is the same. Gets the job done, but meh. The saving grace here is X-Ray. Granted, it's an enormous risk, but the payoff is huge.
Covert Ops: 7/10 EX Parry is super solid. In most cases it doesn't rise to the level of EX launchers other characters have, but there are some ways where it's even better than those (It stuffs alot of moves that would normally break armor, since it parries the first hit)
5. Zoning
Covert Ops: 2/10 Can't zone at all. Has a projectile, which is better than nothing, but thats it.
Demolitions: 4/10 Can't really "zone" but can sort of "footsie" zone by tossing some grenades out. Allows her to control some space.
6. Anti-zoning
Covert Ops: 8/10 Good walk speed, good run speed, divekick, EX arc kick. Has alot of tools to deal with zoning, or at least make it difficult to zone her.
Demolitions: 8/10 Same as the above. Grenades sort of work as counter-zoning tools but that often is a waste of the resource.
7. Damage output (10/10) –
Covert Ops: 3/10 Pretty lacking in damage output. She excells on opening opponents up, but she needs to do it many times.
Demolitions: 8/10 Solid damage output. Rating increase further because it's meterless, though it does require grenades.
8. Meter Gain/Need
Covert Ops: 9/10
Demolitions: 9/10
Neither of these variations are meter dependent at all. The only reason she's not a 10/10 here is the utility she gets from meter can be somewhat limited. X-Ray and Parry are awesome, but still gambles. Honestly, I once considered using a block breaker. I didn't, but I still considered it.
9. Movement (10/10) -
Covert Ops: 8/10
Demolitions: 8/10
Good walk speed, great run speed, a divekick, and EX arc kick generally lets Sonya get where she needs to be. Backdash, despite not being great, will still get the job done.
10. Air Control (10/10)
Covert Ops: 7/10 Good at jumping in. Decent at stopping the opponent from jumping in. Is a bit lacking in her ability to trip guard safely.
Demolitions: 8/10 Same as Covert Ops, but grenades are also probably the best thing in the game to deal with strong njps (think FerraTor, Takeda)
Summary:
Two really solid variations. Demolitions tends to score much better than Covert Ops, but these are extremely complimentary variations. Covert Ops handles alot of matchups that Demolitions struggles in, even if Demo excels in more areas overall.
I agree with everything, but I would give CO a 9/10 in the "air control" category. She probably has a top 5 ji1 in the game and she has one of the best D2s. Demolition would be 10/10 coupled with the explanation you already gave.I put this in the "rate your character" thread recently. Was sort of interested to see if others agreed/disagreed on these points. I found in places she was quite hard to rate.
Scores came out 73 and 65, which seem low, but I thought during each individual category I was being quite optimistic... I guess that's my years of being grateful for any passing grade in college. D's get degrees
But yeah, my numbers are pretty relative, but the descriptions on each were my honest thoughts:
For Sonya, Demolitions and Covert Ops. I'm still not at a position with Special Forces where I can make a solid judgment.
1. 50/50 mix ups
Demolitions: 8/10 Standard high/low 50/50, but bolstered by the fact grenade followups can make them safe.
Covert Ops: 10/10 If you have to block her, you are probably going to get hit.
2. Pressure
Demolitions: 7/10 needs to reload, so loses pressure after every knockdown. However, grenades have the ability to be used as frame-traps, so long as Sonya doesn't become predictable.
Covert Ops: 5/10
3. Neutral game and footsies
Demolitions: 8/10 b1 and f1 are really good buttons. Fast run, and tossing a grenade mid screen every now and then gives her solid control. Up-close buttons are a mixed bag though. d1 is 8 frames, good enough. d3 and d4 have uber-low-to-the-ground hitboxes that make them get beat out by alot. Good speed though.
Covert Ops: 6/10 Has all the advantages and disadvantages above, but doesn't have grenades which allow her to sort of "footsie zone" in demo. Also doesn't really have good juggles off her normals if the opponent jumps out.
4. Defensive options
Demolitions: 5/10 armor is ehhh. It gets the job done in a pinch, but is definitely behind the armor of most other characters. Backdash is the same. Gets the job done, but meh. The saving grace here is X-Ray. Granted, it's an enormous risk, but the payoff is huge.
Covert Ops: 7/10 EX Parry is super solid. In most cases it doesn't rise to the level of EX launchers other characters have, but there are some ways where it's even better than those (It stuffs alot of moves that would normally break armor, since it parries the first hit)
5. Zoning
Covert Ops: 2/10 Can't zone at all. Has a projectile, which is better than nothing, but thats it.
Demolitions: 4/10 Can't really "zone" but can sort of "footsie" zone by tossing some grenades out. Allows her to control some space.
6. Anti-zoning
Covert Ops: 8/10 Good walk speed, good run speed, divekick, EX arc kick. Has alot of tools to deal with zoning, or at least make it difficult to zone her.
Demolitions: 8/10 Same as the above. Grenades sort of work as counter-zoning tools but that often is a waste of the resource.
7. Damage output (10/10) –
Covert Ops: 3/10 Pretty lacking in damage output. She excells on opening opponents up, but she needs to do it many times.
Demolitions: 8/10 Solid damage output. Rating increase further because it's meterless, though it does require grenades.
8. Meter Gain/Need
Covert Ops: 9/10
Demolitions: 9/10
Neither of these variations are meter dependent at all. The only reason she's not a 10/10 here is the utility she gets from meter can be somewhat limited. X-Ray and Parry are awesome, but still gambles. Honestly, I once considered using a block breaker. I didn't, but I still considered it.
9. Movement (10/10) -
Covert Ops: 8/10
Demolitions: 8/10
Good walk speed, great run speed, a divekick, and EX arc kick generally lets Sonya get where she needs to be. Backdash, despite not being great, will still get the job done.
10. Air Control (10/10)
Covert Ops: 7/10 Good at jumping in. Decent at stopping the opponent from jumping in. Is a bit lacking in her ability to trip guard safely.
Demolitions: 8/10 Same as Covert Ops, but grenades are also probably the best thing in the game to deal with strong njps (think FerraTor, Takeda)
Summary:
Two really solid variations. Demolitions tends to score much better than Covert Ops, but these are extremely complimentary variations. Covert Ops handles alot of matchups that Demolitions struggles in, even if Demo excels in more areas overall.
Yes it has, i first noticed when I used to try to escape corners with ex arc kicks, my opponents would anticipate block point blank and full combo punish me.So I have a question about Sonya's EX Arc Kick. I've been learning Tremor, and it seems to me that when you block she gets pushed back differently depending on the range at which you block the move (Example: She gets sent back further when you block the move half screen then when you block it point blank). Has this been like that since the beginning?
But the f4 hit on backdash doesnt it... 12 just doesnt have the range that f4 hasI'm starting to think 121 is a better frame advantage string than f4.
It's +2 like f4, the 12 has a better chance of punching through armor, and you can hit-confirm the 121 to add the last hit, f4, which makes it 12% as opposed to f4's 10%.
So I've changed one of my more common tactics of d4 -> run -> f4 -> pressure to d4 -> run -> 121 -> pressure.