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Unsolved Mysteries of MKX: Advantage Armored Launchers

Temjiin

Temjiin

www.mkxframedata.com
Always thought armoured safe launchers are scrubby as fuck, let alone +.

Armour absorbs a hit, this is primarily to GTFO me. This is a move that should be used on a read.

The idea that you can safely get a combo willy nilly is a joke. There should be consequences to throwing out armoured moves and getting 30% isn't one of them. I support Kenshi buffs but well thought out ones, not a plus armoured launcher LMAO
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Temjiin said:
Always thought armoured safe launchers are scrubby as fuck, let alone +.

Armour absorbs a hit, this is primarily to GTFO me. This is a move that should be used on a read.

The idea that you can safely get a combo willy nilly is a joke. There should be consequences to throwing out armoured moves and getting 30% isn't one of them. I support Kenshi buffs but well thought out ones, not a plus armoured launcher LMAO
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I don't want that
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
TopTierHarley said:
Only if you sit there and allow yourself to get it. Otherwise you can only combo into off 212 which already launches.
Trust me, I get what you are saying, but it feels weird to include swarm and puddle.
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So if I do anything full screen/mid screen or close and trade it doesn't launch?

U then dash and in and combo ??? Plz tell me
 
Temjiin

Temjiin

www.mkxframedata.com
I think moves can generally get 2 of the 3 below and be balanced:

Safe on block
Launches for combo
Armour

No move should have all 3 properties, any 2 of the above 3 are fine.
 
TopTierHarley

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
Pig Of The Hut said:
So if I do anything full screen/mid screen or close and trade it doesn't launch?

U then dash and in and combo ??? Plz tell me
Click to expand...
Swarm does, sure. At that point it's just a regular special launcher. Like I said, I see what you are saying Pig, but we will just keep disagreeing.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I think the reason for Kenshi's buffs should be extended from just "launching +frames". What happens if you dare include "+frames that lead to massive pressure or 50/50's"?? lol. Say someone like Reptile who now does a string on block into +frames, and is invisible so you can't even SEE the 50/50 you're trying to block lol.

Or even my guy Kano throwing out +9 EX Knives to blow up button pushes with a 50/50 if you move, forcing you to guess an armor or a block.

Kenshi doesn't have anything close to the type of +frames most characters get, let alone + on block launchers.
 
Immortal

Immortal

Blind justice....
SaltShaker said:
I think the reason for Kenshi's buffs should be extended from just "launching +frames". What happens if you dare include "+frames that lead to massive pressure or 50/50's"?? lol. Say someone like Reptile who now does a string on block into +frames, and is invisible so you can't even SEE the 50/50 you're trying to block lol.

Or even my guy Kano throwing out +9 EX Knives to blow up button pushes with a 50/50 if you move, forcing you to guess an armor or a block.

Kenshi doesn't have anything close to the type of +frames most characters get, let alone + on block launchers.
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This pretty much.

I like you @KingHippo, you had a good DeathStroke and conversation with was always on decent level and since i posted some suggestions (particularly the RK buff one) im gonna elaborate once more why i think it would make Kenshi no where near broke.

Look at the whole picture not just that one move.

Kenshi in Balanced:

- has a trash zoning (TF is -43 on whiff, TKS is -1 ON HIT and bazillion of startup frames)
- no mix ups
- slow ass normals
- no decent OH move
- only plus on block string 4,2,1 (+2) starts as high and has bazillion of startup frames
- his "best" (and by that i mean safe) armored EX move is -3 on block and leads to nothing
- no "dirt"

Some of the top tier characters and even mid tier:

- have great 50/50 which they can make safe or even + on block and some even lead to another 50/50
- armored moves
- way better zoning
- fast normals
- vortex

As for RK being +on block, please do tell me why this would make Kenshi broke or "too good"? Coz in my mind after RK (plus on block) we would have some sort of breathing room, weak ass pressure at best (again no mix ups), maybe a throw. In a game where once more many top tier characters can just make 50/50 safe into another 50/50.

I don't want broke Kenshi i want Kenshi who can compete in MK X and since i doubt they gonna give him any decent mix ups or fast normals in balanced then yeah, ex armored move "kinda get off me" is like obligatory imo. Look at the whole picture not just "this move would be super great etc..".
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Nice read. MKx may have some "myths" running around but there is definitely a set "meta" of sorts with what a character would need to compete. Take Quan for example. He is unsafe almost with anything he does and has one of the worst armor moves, which means no wakeup and he can't even go through gaps. Basically missing out on basic gameplay. In turn he has one of the dumbest offensives ever created.

@Pig Of The Hut that anti air thread you had a while back, Was the point of this thread the same as that one? Kind of dispel a certain belief.
 
4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Warrior
@Pig Of The Hut

I feel like this broading labeling of "plus on block" moves is basically just cherry picking traits that moves have to shoe horn them into a category that sounds bad but doesn't really mean much as far as how the move functions balance wise.

For example, Goro's positive on block launcher is b12u2. Have you seen that string? The range is awful, it's unusable in footsies. Even after a jip it'll whiff. It's mostly used as a punish(which nets him around 30% meterless, good but nothing crazy) or when you have frame advantage AND are standing point blank(this happens way less often than you might think, things that give a player frame advantage very often have pushback). The string has hole you can armor through or backdash out of. Sometimes the third hit also whiffs and he's full combo punishable(this can still happen even though they fixed it). It's plus 2 and has enough pushback that all Goro gets is a d1.
Is this a good move? Sure. Is it something that breaks the rules of the game and Kenshi players should be jealous of? Not even close.
I bet almost all the other moves in this category breakdown in a similar way when you look at the whole move rather than the label of "positive armored launcher".


It also very much ignores the context of the characters that have the moves. It's kind of like me as a Goro player complaining "Why do all these characters have fast, safe, forward advancing footsies moves that lead to combos? Why doesn't Goro get that?". It's sounds kind of reasonable until you think about the fact that Goro has 3 hits of safe forward advancing safe armor that launch and destroy any footsies tool in the game. Goro still sorta sucks, but there's a reason he doesn't have those other good footsies moves. I presume there's a similar deal with Kenshi. Maybe he sucks, but complaining about his lack frame advantage launching moves and portraying those as super broken kinda ignores the bigger picture and doesn't say anything useful about balance
 
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