Breakthrough - Ethereal Pushing Ethereal Further Still - EX Fade Tech

[ZeroEffect]

Also, your voice sounds just like Alan Wake

Welp... This is the first time I've heard that, lol.

 

[Jeffrey Wolf]

Thanks for the song info. As for meter, compared to most other characters I've played, I find that I always have enough with Ethereal Mileena, since you're not using bar very often in the neutral.

At this point, Piercing feels rather pointless (no pun intended). Ravenous gives you the damage and mixups, while Ethereal give you better wakeups, interrupts, and frame traps. Still, it's nice she has two very viable variations, unlike many of the cast. Lol, at all the tier lists I see coming out with Mileena at the bottom. I don't think it's going to stay that way for long =)

 

[ZeroEffect]

Thanks for the song info. As for meter, compared to most other characters I've played, I find that I always have enough with Ethereal Mileena, since you're not using bar very often in the neutral.

At this point, Piercing feels rather pointless (no pun intended). Ravenous gives you the damage and mixups, while Ethereal give you better wakeups, interrupts, and frame traps. Still, it's nice she has two very viable variations, unlike many of the cast. Lol, at all the tier lists I see coming out with Mileena at the bottom. I don't think it's going to stay that way for long =)

Oh I dunno if I'd say Piercing is "pointless". I can concede that it might be the least rewarding of the 3 in terms of counterpicking characters. But man... all the things you can punish with B12... I've gone over a number of characters' unsafe tools that Piercing only punishes.

There are enough situations where someone is like -11/-12 and Roll is spaced out too far to punish. (ie: Sub-Zero B2). What can you do in the other variations? Nothing. But Piercing B12 almost always gives you a full punish. Also, I think Low Sai is still being sort of undervalued. I kind of wish it wasn't so unsafe or at least gave more frames on hit. (EX Low Sai specifically). All that variation really lacks is a bit of speed and a good overhead. Honestly the overhead is the main reason Ravenous is seen as "better" than the others.

And Mileena probably IS at the bottom, by comparison to the rest. But that doesn't mean she's garbage. Bottom tier in this game seems a little more forgiving than Mk9/Injustice, imo. Really it's just that the top tier are too overwhelming by design.

 

[Deepsealogic]

now this is a watch worthy thread. keep up the goods dude

 

[Jeffrey Wolf]

That's interesting to hear about Piercing specific punishes. Even with that though, would you pick Piercing against Sub instead of one of the other two? I totally agree that if Sais weren't as negative, or if Piercing had another tool, we'd be having a completely different conversation, but as is, I'm just not sure if you'd ever pick Piercing instead of Ravenous or Ethereal, which is why I'm saying pointless. That said, the game is young, so it would be absurd of me to think that all tech has been discovered. Plus, who knows what future patches will bring. As of now though, the other two just seem clearly superior.

As for being at the bottom, I definitely agree that tiers aren't so far apart in this game. That is, a lower tier character can still do quite well. However, what do you feel Mileena is lacking right now? 50/50s? In the current meta, unsafe 50/50s are really just beating newer players or those without muscle conditioned reactions to blocking/punishing the tons of mixups that exist in this game, which is a lot of us, but once you learn it all, there are actually very few instances of a character having a safe 50/50 option that leads to significant damage, at which point this game will revert to more footsies and punishes, two areas where Mileena excels. The only lackluster thing I've discovered about Mileena so far is that her jump 3 and 4, despite how they look, loose against a lot of the cast. It's actually rather shocking. If there was one thing I'd change about her, it would be that and the gap between F12, and then maybe regular Fades. Again though, with EN Fade, I'm not seeing too many bad matchups for her.

 

[Temjiin]

Your Brady-like voice confused me initially, I thought I was watching a Brady video on Mileena.

Then I realised it was concise, helpful, to the point, positive and not 12 fucking minutes.

Great video man.

 

[SaltFace NS]

Lol, I wish you had xbone man...I really do. Would love to share some notes and tidbits. That's pretty much what I do with this game now. Pick a character that interests me and share whatever I can find.

Seriously tho, I love that more people are taking notice of Ethereal and I love that you are seeing its uses. Don't be surprised if it takes over your main spot. The utility is so good, and having a free wakeup is something I can no longer trade away.

Bro I have an Xbox One acct.

SaltFace GA.

Lol you never asked.

 

[ZeroEffect]

That's interesting to hear about Piercing specific punishes. Even with that though, would you pick Piercing against Sub instead of one of the other two? I totally agree that if Sais weren't as negative, or if Piercing had another tool, we'd be having a completely different conversation, but as is, I'm just not sure if you'd ever pick Piercing instead of Ravenous or Ethereal, which is why I'm saying pointless. That said, the game is young, so it would be absurd of me to think that all tech has been discovered. Plus, who knows what future patches will bring. As of now though, the other two just seem clearly superior.

As for being at the bottom, I definitely agree that tiers aren't so far apart in this game. That is, a lower tier character can still do quite well. However, what do you feel Mileena is lacking right now? 50/50s? In the current meta, unsafe 50/50s are really just beating newer players or those without muscle conditioned reactions to blocking/punishing the tons of mixups that exist in this game, which is a lot of us, but once you learn it all, there are actually very few instances of a character having a safe 50/50 option that leads to significant damage, at which point this game will revert to more footsies and punishes, two areas where Mileena excels. The only lackluster thing I've discovered about Mileena so far is that her jump 3 and 4, despite how they look, loose against a lot of the cast. It's actually rather shocking. If there was one thing I'd change about her, it would be that and the gap between F12, and then maybe regular Fades. Again though, with EN Fade, I'm not seeing too many bad matchups for her.

Personally, yeah I would pick Piercing vs Sub, as it's the variation I'm most comfortable with. It feels the closest to how Mileena normally plays, with sai zoning and irritating normals. Also, I don't see what Ravenous really does to specifically help in the Sub MU. Not saying she can't win it in Ravenous, but Ravenous's strengths are just different instead of better vs him, imo.
As for Ethereal, Ice Clone is one of the best ways to destroy this new Ethereal tech as well. He hops back out of range and EX Fade will basically put her inside the clone. So Ethereal is likely the worst possible pick for that MU.

What she's missing? Well as I said, a good overhead is a start. She wouldn't need to combo off it, just a knockdown like Kitana's. Having a fast overhead option that doesn't require meter is huge. It forces people to respect her options for dealing with ducking. Other than that, I feel like she's too unsafe in general on normals. Many of her best strings have gaps. F4/F44 could have better block frames. etc.

The real issue though is that the game is run by OP tactics. So in a world like this, a solid character ends up becoming weak by comparison.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

I like your voice lol.

I'm kinda falling for this variation cause it's cute.

 

[ZeroEffect]

I like your voice lol.

I'm kinda falling for this variation cause it's cute.

lol, has Mr. Mileena finally been convinced?

 

[Jeffrey Wolf]

I hear you. Time will tell.

 

[MajinBerserker]

@ZeroEffect
This is really cool. Great work! Definitely news to me, so I look forward to exploring it more. I had no clue about the ability of the EX Fade to get her out of pressure, like your video showcases. This has piqued my interest in Ethereal again.
I feel this strategy could change some match ups. Definitely something new for the character's game play.

 

[TheGabStandard]

That's interesting to hear about Piercing specific punishes. Even with that though, would you pick Piercing against Sub instead of one of the other two? I totally agree that if Sais weren't as negative, or if Piercing had another tool, we'd be having a completely different conversation, but as is, I'm just not sure if you'd ever pick Piercing instead of Ravenous or Ethereal, which is why I'm saying pointless. That said, the game is young, so it would be absurd of me to think that all tech has been discovered. Plus, who knows what future patches will bring. As of now though, the other two just seem clearly superior.

I guess it depends which you are comfortable with. For me I would always pick Piercing in matches I'm comfortable with (as long there isn't a F12 whiffing issue) because I perform best with that variation currently. Add in @ZeroEffect point on B12 punishes and range in the neutral, that is enough for me to go with Piercing. At the same time I can easily see why people will go Ravenous on a general consensus.

As for being at the bottom, I definitely agree that tiers aren't so far apart in this game. That is, a lower tier character can still do quite well. However, what do you feel Mileena is lacking right now? 50/50s? In the current meta, unsafe 50/50s are really just beating newer players or those without muscle conditioned reactions to blocking/punishing the tons of mixups that exist in this game, which is a lot of us, but once you learn it all, there are actually very few instances of a character having a safe 50/50 option that leads to significant damage, at which point this game will revert to more footsies and punishes, two areas where Mileena excels. The only lackluster thing I've discovered about Mileena so far is that her jump 3 and 4, despite how they look, loose against a lot of the cast. It's actually rather shocking. If there was one thing I'd change about her, it would be that and the gap between F12, and then maybe regular Fades. Again though, with EN Fade, I'm not seeing too many bad matchups for her.

In my opinion Mileena lacks frames in her normals. Compared to the cast her normals are quite sluggish and for someone designed to be a whiff punisher it feels off. If a few frames were shaved off a few of her normals, fix the F12 issue in Piercing, improve startup on regular Fades and I think everything would be good. Anything else would be a bonus.

EDIT: Actually maybe better frame advantage on block for a few strings as quite a few are borderline unsafe depending on the character you face.

 

[TakeAChance]

Bro I have an Xbox One acct.

SaltFace GA.

Lol you never asked.

What. The. Fuck.

 

[SaltFace NS]

What. The. Fuck.

HAHAHAHA!!! Let's train sometime.

 

[Nu-Skoool]

Nope, nope, and nope.
She goes forward right into the clone and gets frozen. You can hold the Fade, but as soon as you let go she gets frozen. (if the clone is still out).

Ahh that's a bummer. Still it's really good at blowing up these pseudo block infinites and pressure strings, so no complaints here! I mean a pretty much guaranteed escape reversal is awesome.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Ahh that's a bummer. Still it's really good at blowing up these pseudo block infinites and pressure strings, so no complaints here! I mean a pretty much guaranteed escape reversal is awesome.

That's another thing. Liu Kang's f213~FBRC is 100% inescapable if he RUN cancels. If he dash cancels like in Tom Brady's video, she can Fade out.
Quan chi's unblockable is another. Perfect timing makes her unable to get out.

 

[TheGabStandard]

That's another thing. Liu Kang's f213~FBRC is 100% inescapable if he RUN cancels. If he dash cancels like in Tom Brady's video, she can Fade out.
Quan chi's unblockable is another. Perfect timing makes her unable to get out.

That was going to be a question but forgot to ask yesterday. Off topic as its related to a different character but if EX Fade can get out of pressure like this as well as gaps in string, in theory I believe Cassie could do the same with Ex Nut Punch. From memory that move has no armour but quite a few invincibility frames. I would need to check as I'm not a Cassie main but if someone else can then by all means do so.

 

[smokey]

I havent watched the video but was labbing her the other day for matchups and noticed that you can grab her out of her Fade and EX fade with Command Grabs. On startup, while youre holding it, while youre moving forward or backwards with fade, she gets hit by command grabs. Dont remember if normal grabs work but would say its worth looking into if youre serious with this variation

 

[5M0K3]

Yes plzz

 

[ZeroEffect]

I havent watched the video but was labbing her the other day for matchups and noticed that you can grab her out of her Fade and EX fade with Command Grabs. On startup, while youre holding it, while youre moving forward or backwards with fade, she gets hit by command grabs. Dont remember if normal grabs work but would say its worth looking into if youre serious with this variation

Yep, it's in the video that you can grab her. Command grabs work too.
The thing is though, if she's doing blockstrings into EX Fade you are in too much blockstun to hit any buttons. You are jailed and forced to guess how to block or break a throw. And you can't react to a raw EX Fade with a grab before she can hit you. Regular Fade is much more vulnerable.

 

[ZeroEffect]

That was going to be a question but forgot to ask yesterday. Off topic as its related to a different character but if EX Fade can get out of pressure like this as well as gaps in string, in theory I believe Cassie could do the same with Ex Nut Punch. From memory that move has no armour but quite a few invincibility frames. I would need to check as I'm not a Cassie main but if someone else can then by all means do so.

It wouldn't exactly be the same, because armor moves should still eat Nut punch up. But that's still a damn good tool if it works that way. (Why make her invincible on THAT move??)

As far as the Quan Chi thing you almost have no reason NOT to do it since you're probably not gonna block right anyway. And if they do mistime it slightly you get a full combo.

 

[smokey]

Yep, it's in the video that you can grab her. Command grabs work too.
The thing is though, if she's doing blockstrings into EX Fade you are in too much blockstun to hit any buttons. You are jailed and forced to guess how to block or break a throw. And you can't react to a raw EX Fade with a grab before she can hit you. Regular Fade is much more vulnerable.

All good dude, sounds like you have done your homework, didnt know my self how practical it was to command throw her in any of your setups, but thought it was worth a mention

 

[LaidbackOne]

This is tits!

 

[ZeroEffect]

All good dude, sounds like you have done your homework, didnt know my self how practical it was to command throw her in any of your setups, but thought it was worth a mention

I didn't try testing command grabs mid string, so I can check back on that. This tech definitely has weaknesses to it, but it does a great job at stopping braindead pressure.

EDIT: Actually, I just re-watched it, and I tried Erron Black command grab and it didn't hit her. Maybe that's true for all mid string command grabs. I'll have to check next time I get a chance.