Strategy - Scorpion Slips' Scorpion Assesement

[Youphemism]

Woah woah woah, JACQUI level armour? Hmm.... Isn't EX Spear armoured, and safe (although duckable in some cases)?

 

[Rickyraws]

@Slips Very informative, and accurate write up. However I would prefer if they tweaked Scorpion to be exactly how he is now in Injustice.

 

[RiBBz22]

Woah woah woah, JACQUI level armour? Hmm.... Isn't EX Spear armoured, and safe (although duckable in some cases)?

No armor mi amigo

 

[Youphemism]

No armor mi amigo

No armour? Damn alright then, carry on!

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

@Slips next time you stream can we watch you play some Ninjitsu against Red Raptor?

 

[Groove Heaven]

I actually just started learning Ninjitsu because I thought it seemed good in a footsies-based way. Glad to see a high-level player break it down and open up the discussion, TYM needs more threads like this.

I used to mess around with Inferno and I got very bored and stuck in a "flow-chart" rut that wasn't even really working. I can totally see Ninj being more viable.

 

[Bilbo11]

I came late to the party is @Slips making guides? he is very thorough

 

[STRYKIE]

Woah woah woah, JACQUI level armour? Hmm.... Isn't EX Spear armoured, and safe (although duckable in some cases)?

Pfft, we wish it was...

And alas, we're not collusion artists, we concede that EX Spear would have to be made unsafe if it was given armor, well, most of us, lol.

 

[Slips]

@Slips next time you stream can we watch you play some Ninjitsu against Red Raptor?

I usually do a set with Ninjitsu with Raptor per session. Raptor is pretty much what I base most of my analysis on since he gives me the best comp in my area. Ninjitsu still holds strong but he's been beating Hellfire lately. There's still a few things I think might be able to do to make Hellfire better but the risk/reward for his overhead/low keeps popping up as an issue for me. We'll see though, I'm not done exploring Hellfire.

 

[Matix218]

@Slips next time you stream can we watch you play some Ninjitsu against Red Raptor?

@Slips what is the name of your twitch channel?

 

[Slips]

@Slips what is the name of your twitch channel?

http://www.twitch.tv/slipkicks

 

[Matix218]

http://www.twitch.tv/slipkicks

Thanks, ill definitely check out your stream! I love watching high level players who play my main but it is quite rare these days since scorp is getting very little love lately

 

[Slips]

Thanks, ill definitely check out your stream! I love watching high level players who play my main but it is quite rare these days since scorp is getting very little love lately

Every Wednesday night around midnight CST is when it usually goes down.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Reading...trying to find the point where slips has had too much alcohol/weed..... ah, there it is. He randomly switched from a 5 point system to a 3 point system.

Great write up @Slips!

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

There's still a few things I think might be able to do to make Hellfire better but the risk/reward for his overhead/low keeps popping up as an issue for me.

can you option select those?

 

[Slips]

can you option select those?

The low yes but it's the overheads that are the problem. One is too slow and the other people don't care about.

 

[HeroesNZ]

The thing with F2 though is that nobody likes to get hit, let alone knocked down. You know you should just block low and take the overhead but you end up blocking high anyway. The damage keeps stacking as well. If they always block low that's good for you because you get a free 9% after every combo.

Another plus for Hellfire is that if the opponent reads a throw after a combo you can go for 21 FBC and hit-confirm into 214 or be +9 on block and go for a throw anyway which beats pokes. If they start trying to tech/punish the throw after 21 FBC you can go into a B12 FBC which is +4 and hit-confirm into 214 or another throw/D3/standing 1/whatever on block. You could also go for a Flame Aura counter-poke setup. You can block/jump over at any point if you read an armour attempt of course.

I feel like there are still a lot more mind games and ways to open up the opponent with Hellfire - especially since throws are scarier because of EX Hellfire. Ninjutsu's really good as well. Inferno is awful though, like dafuq is this shit NRS?

 

[Slips]

The thing with F2 though is that nobody likes to get hit, let alone knocked down. You know you should just block low and take the overhead but you end up blocking high anyway. The damage keeps stacking as well. If they always block low that's good for you because you get a free 9% after every combo.

Another plus for Hellfire is that if the opponent reads a throw after a combo you can go for 21 FBC and hit-confirm into 214 or be +9 on block and go for a throw anyway which beats pokes. If they start trying to tech/punish the throw after 21 FBC you can go into a B12 FBC which is +4 and hit-confirm into 214 or another throw/D3/standing 1/whatever on block. You could also go for a Flame Aura counter-poke setup. You can block/jump over at any point if you read an armour attempt of course.

I feel like there are still a lot more mind games and ways to open up the opponent with Hellfire - especially since throws are scarier because of EX Hellfire. Ninjutsu's really good as well. Inferno is awful though, like dafuq is this shit NRS?

There are too many options on the ground after f2 hits.

You a) have to guess if they are going to wakeup or not, depending on the character, you have to guess which wakeup they are doing b) if you think they are not going to do a wakeup, you then have to guess if they are doing a delayed getup or not. You guess wrong and whiff a f2 while they are on the ground, now it's their turn. If you wait too long, then they might wakeup grab or wake up d1 and hit you out of the air of another f2 for a juggle.

All this guessing to get another 9%?

It's just not good enough.

 

[HeroesNZ]

There are too many options on the ground after f2 hits.

You a) have to guess if they are going to wakeup or not, depending on the character, you have to guess which wakeup they are doing b) if you think they are not going to do a wakeup, you then have to guess if they are doing a delayed getup or not. You guess wrong and whiff a f2 while they are on the ground, now it's their turn. If you wait too long, then they might wakeup grab or wake up d1 and hit you out of the air of another f2 for a juggle.

All this guessing to get another 9%?

It's just not good enough.

But it's not like you have to F2 again after it hits, you've already gotten your free 9%.

 

[Slips]

But it's not like you have to F2 again after it hits, you've already gotten your free 9%.

If I'm down on life how am I supposed to make a comeback? Guess right 8x in a row? Yea adding an extra 9% is great after you've done a 30 sum percent combo. The question is how are you gonna start that combo to begin with? He can't launch anyone if they duck block all day and react to his f4.

 

[HeroesNZ]

If I'm down on life how am I supposed to make a comeback? Guess right 8x in a row? Yea adding an extra 9% is great after you've done a 30 sum percent combo. The question is how are you gonna start that combo to begin with? He can't launch anyone if they duck block all day and react to his f4.

Scorpion isn't a character with a great comeback factor in any variation. There are plenty of ways to start a combo, it's not like the opponent's just gonna be standing there blocking the whole time. The opponent's gonna be trying to start their offense at the same time as you so you can hit them through a punish, an air-to-air, EX Teleport, an anti-air, a whiff punish, a counter-poke, frame-traps etc...

 

[Slips]

There are plenty of ways to start a combo, it's not like the opponent's just gonna be standing there blocking the whole time.

This pretty much sums up our difference right here. If your opponent knows the mu, they won't give you anything but throw and f2. They won't do anything punishable, they won't get hit by j3, they won't get hit by b3. They'll stay grounded and work their way around d4 which isn't hard for some characters. The worst that can happen is eating a f2 or throw.

I'm not trying to say Scorpion isn't good. But this is a weakness for sure.

I'll keep working with him but this is a hurdle I have yet to overcome.

 

[Ze Dingo]

Yeah I could see liu being a 4-6. I agree with cassie, kung lao and jax as well. Why do you find erron black to be a bad matchup? I personally have never played a good erron black offline so I cannot comment on it, just curious as to why he gives scorp issues.

Because once EB gets in Scorpion's face, the pressure is mind numbing. Now, if Ex Spear had armour, ala MK9, this would help alleviate the situation but the lack of armour and the fact that EB can bait out your Ex Tele wakeup and then blow it up for full combo makes the matchup an uphill climb. In neutral, it's pretty even.

That's my 2¢ on that topic.

 

[wa_black]

Is Ninjutsu really the best? B2 and F2 aren't consistent anti-airs. B2 moves forward which can lead you to whiff and get punished (limiting usage) and f2 can let opponents slip through vertically because the vertical hitboxes do not linger.

B4 is useless if the opponent can punish it on block.

F2 on their wake up loses to delayed wake up.

Opponent's can just block low and react to the overhead, and if you want damage, you have to risk spear or burn for ex. If you don't spend the bar you could eat a hefty punish.

F2 is great until they block it, then they get all of the advantage.

Whiff punishment is good though.

I feel like all they tools given to Ninjutsu are a little medicore, so since he shares his universal tools with the other two variations, I feel like hellfire is the best because you get hellfire, a fireball, fireball cancels, higher damage, and aura on top of scorpion's universal tools.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Is Ninjutsu really the best? B2 and F2 aren't consistent anti-airs. B2 moves forward which can lead you to whiff and get punished (limiting usage) and f2 can let opponents slip through vertically because the vertical hitboxes do not linger.

B4 is useless if the opponent can punish it on block.

F2 on their wake up loses to delayed wake up.

Opponent's can just block low and react to the overhead, and if you want damage, you have to risk spear or burn for ex. If you don't spend the bar you could eat a hefty punish.

F2 is great until they block it, then they get all of the advantage.

Whiff punishment is good though.

I feel like all they tools given to Ninjutsu are a little medicore, so since he shares his universal tools with the other two variations, I feel like hellfire is the best because you get hellfire, a fireball, fireball cancels, higher damage, and aura on top of scorpion's universal tools.

Scorpion Anti-airs with B1 outside of B2 range, and trip guards with ex teleports on same range when he can't run under them, he can't be neutral jumped because his NJP has a disjointed hitbox, so only loses to maybe Kung Jin or Predator, besides he has B2.

The options are there, its up to the player to not suck at using them, you should be throwing people with afraid of hitting those, that is the whole point of conditioning, if one is afraid of waking up, you throw, since they won't be pressing button fearing F2 or B4, they won't tech your throw, delayed wakeup disables wakeup attacks options as well, and they still have to guess either if you will throw or not.

When they think you will throw and try to go for a wakeup is when you should B4 or F2, also F2 has a proper range to be used, as well is more of a whiff punishing tool even if its built as an anti-wakeup tool.

A lot of Ninjutsu players i've seen doesn't even know how to approach with scorpion, Ninjutsu is tipically the type of character designed to walk, walk, and walk more, he doesn't unload all his bombs all at once, he threats you by walking, gets in and out your range, and conditions you with a well measured D4, standing 1 and standing 4, those are pokes just to harass, if you jump you will get punished, if you try to poke or counter when he is mobile, you eat a F2 or a B2 if you do something whiff punishable on distances you think you're safe, and he will keep walking to you, until you find yourself in the corner, where he can walkback to avoid your normals, and condition you to press buttons, even when you think he will F2, he might just walk in your space and hit you with a throw.

And if they don't start blocking low while you're inside their range, it will open for B3~ex spear, or raw F4 which i came to notice ppl tends to get eaten by those in Ninjutsu because the way its used is far more expanded rather than a 50-50 out of a teleport, which isn't exactly his game, Ninjutsu wins by making you pressing buttons, in order to win you need to press buttons, that is how the struggle comes against ninjutsu.

Not trying to hype up Ninjutsu or anything, but his neutral is so unique on his own, which kind of reminds me of the same way Ibuki plays neutrals in USF4

Now if you F2 or B4 all the time someone is knocked down, then you shouldn't be playing Ninjutsu, the first indication of Ninjutsu's gameplay is to destroy wakeups, so it auto conditions your opponent's to respect that option alone even without you using F2 even once during a set.