General/Other - Commando Commando Variation Discussion Thread

[kabelfritz]

Really, not one person bothers with it? Well dang okay then. I kind of want to get pretty consistent with it just so I can actually get some decent punishing damage midscreen. Punish for 31%-34% instead of like 16%-20%.

112 MBBallCancel 112 knives will do 27% and +7

 

[Vigilante24]

27% for a bar tho into a reset that isnt gatunteed. I dont like the sound of that as a punish. Id prefer 34% for a bar with corner carry or side switch ending with the other command grab should I need to.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Yeah I don't like knife ender either, I usually end with Ball for the corner carry and knockdown. I just don't like Kano's restand game right now. If I ever restand I just go for a D4 or a throw, hope they block the D4 and tick it.

 

[MsMiharo]

Yeah I don't like knife ender either, I usually end with Ball for the corner carry and knockdown. I just don't like Kano's restand game right now. If I ever restand I just go for a D4 or a throw, hope they block the D4 and tick it.

Would command grab / f4 choke work as a poor man's 50/50?

 

[DFC]

On the 35% one bar midscreen combo. I'm practicing it right now, and I feel like you need to practice Combos on female characters. the timing is so much less forgiving against Mileena than Sub Zero. Also, doing it on Kotal or Jason sized hitboxes is EZ mode

@MsMiharo
That's absolutely a 50/50. Do your tick setups, and when they get wise, do the tick into choke

 

[MsMiharo]

On the 35% one bar midscreen combo. I'm practicing it right now, and I feel like you need to practice Combos on female characters. the timing is so much less forgiving against Mileena than Sub Zero. Also, doing it on Kotal or Jason sized hitboxes is EZ mode

@MsMiharo
That's absolutely a 50/50. Do your tick setups, and when they get wise, do the tick into choke

I was thinking more after a restand. I guess they can armor but you could d4 ex choke/grab. I haven't tried it much but in theory they have to guess if you're gonna command grab or f4 choke. The latter should catch backdashes and jumps, the former blocks

 

[MsMiharo]

Another thing I'm experimenting with is after a blocked choke going for an ex grab/parry/choke. Choke will be low profiled but catches jumps and backdashes, low parry catches low pokes and command grab for when they start being too scared to push buttons

 

[FlappyDaniel]

My main mixup in commando is if I'm going to cancel F4 into something or not. I make a point to alternate this and try and be very aware of how they're reacting. if they're antsy after F4 I cancel it into ball and very often catch them trying to mash after blocking the F4, if not I JUST F4 then either block or go into other normal pressure. I havent labbed the exact conditions but F4xxBall will actually switch sides sometimes on block so it can be tricky to punish. You just have to make the read if they're blocking the ball and stop going for it. I'm really not a fan of using choke TOO much, especially after F4 because I think F4 is -5 or -6 on block and choke is -4, so it's safer but marginally so, maybe be an increasingly valuable option depending on the MU, I just generally don't like choke because of the little advantage given by it. That being said the F4xxChoke is doing the same thing as F4xxBall and is MUCH safer on block.

 

[MsMiharo]

My main mixup in commando is if I'm going to cancel F4 into something or not. I make a point to alternate this and try and be very aware of how they're reacting. if they're antsy after F4 I cancel it into ball and very often catch them trying to mash after blocking the F4, if not I JUST F4 then either block or go into other normal pressure. I havent labbed the exact conditions but F4xxBall will actually switch sides sometimes on block so it can be tricky to punish. You just have to make the read if they're blocking the ball and stop going for it. I'm really not a fan of using choke TOO much, especially after F4 because I think F4 is -5 or -6 on block and choke is -4, so it's safer but marginally so, maybe be an increasingly valuable option depending on the MU, I just generally don't like choke because of the little advantage given by it. That being said the F4xxChoke is doing the same thing as F4xxBall and is MUCH safer on block.

I love choke but I guess it's a matter of taste. However it does sometimes whiff after f4 connects which is another issue this variation has

 

[FlappyDaniel]

With choke you literally don't have time to follow up on the oki, that's the only problem I have with it. I don't think I've seen it whiff after connectiong F4

 

[Diaphone]

Ball is basically the same as choke for frametrap on block.. except choke is way safer. Never use ball unless you already hit confirm the string and want a better oki setup (choke oki is garbage)

EX Ball NJP combos can be done consistently in a match. I've done it in tournament as well (although at EVO I didn't get warmed up enough to be confident in using it)

2 tricks that helped me get this combo easier;
1) Plink the Nj.p (1~2) makes the timing way easier.
2) Canceling EX ball ASAP has different timing depending on the string you use. I recommend learning the timing from 1 string only at first.

@Flappy you really need to learn the OS so you don't have to hope they block the d4.

Restands are useful too when you aren't confident in your execution, end with knife then do d4 OS command grab (among other options). It is better than choke oki and I think it does the same damage. But NJ.P combos are always optimal imo.

 

[MsMiharo]

With choke you literally don't have time to follow up on the oki, that's the only problem I have with it.

Yeah. It should be more plus. But the safety is worth it over ball imo

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Definitely agreed, Perhaps it's my play that should be adjusted.

Also Diaphone, I'm working on implementing that OS timing, window is still weird for me but I think I'm getting it down.

 

[Vigilante24]

What is this OS you speak of and how do you execute it?

 

[DFC]

It can be wonky against female hitboxes. I'll probably make a quick video when I get home.

So I have all the clips recorded, but the timing doesn't seem all that different visually, but it is. I guess I'll still upload it though. I did do the NJP string for commando though, so Cyber and Cutt's strings might be more helpful in doing the JIP after Kano ball cancels(Not that it's difficult)

 

[FlappyDaniel]

@Vig There's a small timing window for the input on his Poke tick throws where it'll come out on block but not on hit. Really hard to tell if you're hitting it right in practice so that's why I'm not sure but somethin somebody told me was to input the D4 and the BF as normal, then delay the input of the final 4 for the grab just slightly.

 

[MsMiharo]

Ok this might be known but doing 112 ex ball cancel ji2 32 knife is 25%, leaves them standing and leaves you at enough plus frames for a mixup of sorts.

You can command grab (I suggest Power Slam due to it being 1 frame faster). When I tried it with rib breaker (forward cmd grab) it would trade 1/10 times with JC's standing 1 (9 frames) so that might be bad execution or a really just frame. Didn't test with Power Slam (I remembered afterwards it's 1 frame faster).

The other option is f4. Now in a perfect scenario this would catch backdashes and jumps and you could connect it to choke. But since choke's hitbox is still wonky you won't. You can go for f4 knife which is your safest option (-7 on block, +7 if you EX) but it's only 11%/15%. If you're BALLsy you can go for f4 ball for 15% which will connect on both jumps and backdashes.

As always Commando is about reads. If they get too jump happy, go for b1 b1 b1 b1 cmd grab or your go-to anti air combo. If they start armoring or their pokes are too fast? Armor your command grab. If they start armoring through? Armor your command grab or parry their asses.

Pew pew.

 

[countrypistol]

@Vig There's a small timing window for the input on his Poke tick throws where it'll come out on block but not on hit. Really hard to tell if you're hitting it right in practice so that's why I'm not sure but somethin somebody told me was to input the D4 and the BF as normal, then delay the input of the final 4 for the grab just slightly.

What I've been doing is starting in the down/forward position, pressing 1, then making a circular motion with my thumb through down,down back, back, centre, forward, and after completing the motion, pressing 4 to get the throw (if you want the side switch throw, start in down back and go the opposite way). I find keeping a fluid movement is easier than trying to leave a gap in the inputs. It takes a while to get the timing, but set the dummy to block random combo and keep experimenting.

Also, I use d1 as it increases the chances of the attack being blocked. It has less range, but the -9 on block is negated by the option select, and it's +25 on hit, so you can follow up with several options.

 

[kabelfritz]

27% for a bar tho into a reset that isnt gatunteed. I dont like the sound of that as a punish. Id prefer 34% for a bar with corner carry or side switch ending with the other command grab should I need to.

its a straight 50/50 after the knife, b13choke (safe) or command grab (unsafe to iajp) both for 17 percent. of course it can be armored but there are barely 50/50s in the game that cant.

here is some of my commando gameplay vs a good jax. yes i dont tick throw here but he also didnt give me that many chances.

 

[Vigilante24]

So how does Commando do vs Scorpion? I just cant click with Cutthroat at all and I can at least use commando at a decent level atm. My Cyber got taken out of a recent tourney by an Infrared Scorp.

My eyes.

 

[Gobei Go]

So how does Commando do vs Scorpion? I just cant click with Cutthroat at all and I can at least use commando at a decent level atm. My Cyber got taken out of a recent tourney by an Infrared Scorp.

My eyes.

I actually like Commando's tools in this matchup. More often than not, I am able to stagger a few knives to bait out a teleport and punish with some b13 set up. The teleport is really punishable so keep an eye out and make them do it. I like blocking low against scorp because his overhead is pretty easy to react to. Even fullscreen blocking low between a few knives discourages low demons. Most demon pressure is negated by a straight ball. When they get into the vortex look for a gap to ex upball and get some distance for the lame game I just mentioned. The goal is to bait a teleport into corner pressure. Oh yea... they will teleport no matter where on the screen they were or will end up...

Straight Ball punishes normal spear. F4 punishes blocked slides. If there is anything specific you need to know, ask. I feel like whenever I play a scorpion it is 100% my fault if I lose.

 

[kabelfritz]

So how does Commando do vs Scorpion? I just cant click with Cutthroat at all and I can at least use commando at a decent level atm. My Cyber got taken out of a recent tourney by an Infrared Scorp.

My eyes.

the problem is obviously the lack of damaging punishes against scorpions unsafe moves.

 

[Gobei Go]

I would be frustrated with the damage output if Kano didnt have every tool to fight a scorpion. He shuts down a lot of typical xbox live scorpion play. If I ever had trouble it was against hellfire scorpions or if the tool I was using (ex c.grab, parry, ex upball) was acting inconsistent.

 

[Vigilante24]

Thanks for the replies guys. I just feel much more comfortable in commando so im glad to hear he has the tools to deal with Scorp cuz I felt the struggle with Cyber, my go to variation. Ill keep leveling my commando for certain MUs where I need scarier up close options. I have a feeling imma need Commando for Jax n Lao for sure, especially since he can parry all Tele options of Lao.

Another question, how do you deal with Scorp j3? Every single time I reacted to his jump, I would uppercut his ass but it traded every single time! Each match I was losing near 30% off just those trades which I really needed at the end of my last round when I had 5% instead of 35%.

 

[kabelfritz]

Thanks for the replies guys. I just feel much more comfortable in commando so im glad to hear he has the tools to deal with Scorp cuz I felt the struggle with Cyber, my go to variation. Ill keep leveling my commando for certain MUs where I need scarier up close options. I have a feeling imma need Commando for Jax n Lao for sure, especially since he can parry all Tele options of Lao.

Another question, how do you deal with Scorp j3? Every single time I reacted to his jump, I would uppercut his ass but it traded every single time! Each match I was losing near 30% off just those trades which I really needed at the end of my last round when I had 5% instead of 35%.

lol just tell yourself he loses 14% every time you lose 7. other than than, correct spacing and ninja reflexes. its easier to anti-air it when you are a bit closer, like in the spot where scorp would land.