General/Other - Kano Kano General Discussion Thread

[DFC]

Oh that sounds like a sack of fun!

On a side note, You're pushing me closer to the "Hate's the buff" party. Still glad they fixed the choke though.

 

[LEGI0N47]

Oh that sounds like a sack of fun!

On a side note, You're pushing me closer to the "Hate's the buff" party. Still glad they fixed the choke though.

I am too. But he needs some more fix's.

 

[Youphemism]

Dudes, all Cybernetic needs is a damage boost on his 2+4MB strings/launchers and he'll be fine. He will then most likely at least go even with the majority of the top tiers in the game. Even if he is mid tier or bottom 10, he's not shit or unviable. Someone has to be there and in this case it could be Kano. If you're choosing to tier whore over playing a character you like then go and play someone else. We don't like or try to cry for buffs here or complain about how overrated he is or whatever we're just here to play the game, play Kano and get on with it. If he needs fixes then we'll discuss them and ask for them but unless buffs are absolutely warranted then there's no need for us to cry for any of them, LEAST of all an overhead ffs.

And Legion I think you're forgetting about Noobe and Decay, they're both good Cybernetic Kanos too. Noobe just needs to optimise his midscreen bnb(s) is all.

Meanwhile Kitana, Liu, and Shinnok and standing on our shoulders having a good laugh.

I can't stand on my own shoulders muahahahaha god I can't wait to get my Necro going.

 

[SaltShaker]

@SaltShaker You're exactly right. The "he's fine" parade has ridden us right to the bottom third of the game.

Doesn't help that we don't have any big time top players repping us other than the occasional sentence or so a week here or there from Coach and Hippo who much of TYM see's very little of. No disrespect to you two. Both of you produce great content IMO. But I also understand how nauseating TYM can be as well as a time suck. And I know some of you Kano players are mighty solid. But lets face it, in the larger community unless you place, are well known at a "scene," or similar you apparently can't have a correct opinion that the wider TYM will respond too. Notice they almost always side with the "top players." (Except Tom or Dave because it appears to be a TYM sport to blow them up even when they're totally right) If unsure there are a number option selects to use while contributing nothing but bumping a post and upping your post count.

Other than that those that do mention him on stream or whatever march on with "he's fine." Or my favorite "Yeah Kano....yeah...he's solid" Translation "I don't know shit about him but he seems legit or at least I heard so somewhere."


We have a whopping 2 people that come by here and shit on him and aren't afraid to speak up about it. Dave and dribirut, the first being far more civil and classy about it. The rest of us (i'm also guilty at many junctures) walk on egg shells at calling it like it really is trying to grasp on to the few good things he has in a game full of utter BS that countless people defend. Why I do not know. I can only speculate as to why I think it's like that but I've ranted enough.

Meanwhile downplaying is rampant and spreading all over TYM.

Best post in the forum in a while.

For a clear example, at my local where I usually play well I played our best Sonya, Covert Ops, in Losers Finals. I've played him about 500 times now total at functions or houses, maybe more. So I go Cyber Kano, what I've boldly called a favorable MU for over two months to everyone. Lost the 1st match, utterly spanked the 2nd match. Switched to Pyro Tanya and won 3 in a row to take the set. This is not the showing of a character who "needs nothing". I've put in countless hours with Kano and 2 n a half weeks with Tanya and already I'm way better with her.

Look at the roster. We just saw 3 more characters shoot ahead of Kano and become viable enough to use solo. This is exactly what I said would happen and it's happening. Where's Kano? Day 1 he was Top 10. Today he is a couple characters away from Bottom 5. Bottom 7 according to my updated rankings. Where's the "Kano symbolizes how the game should be played" now when the game ISN'T played that way???

I'm going to address TYM on this very, very soon and tag the Kano players. Enough is enough. Either he's going to get an upgrade or I'm jumping fully ship with Pyro Tanya and an alt of Shinnok or Liu. I've already made him a secondary to Tanya but if "he's fine" stays the narrative I'm done. At this point as you said the only people that think he's fine are those who don't use him, don't care to know the issues, or 3 Kano players.

One missed patch of buffs away from Bottom 5 is where he stands.

 

[Error]

@LEGI0N47 I agree, that's why I wish I was part of a character forum that knew what it was doing and actually asked for buffs instead of trying to fake dignity for fear of being shamed into a salt report or something, but alas, both characters I want to see improved, Mystic and Commando have forums that swear that they're fine.

-snip-.

I agree, I'd tag I GOT HANDS, but I don't want to interrupt his likely crying about Sub-Zero. Also I hate you for taking the 666th post on the Kano discussion thread.

 

[SaltShaker]

Dudes, all Cybernetic needs is a damage boost on his 2+4MB strings/launchers and he'll be fine. He will then most likely at least go even with the majority of the top tiers in the game. Even if he is mid tier or bottom 10, he's not shit or unviable. Someone has to be there and in this case it could be Kano. If you're choosing to tier whore over playing a character you like then go and play someone else. We don't like or try to cry for buffs here or complain about how overrated he is or whatever we're just here to play the game, play Kano and get on with it. If he needs fixes then we'll discuss them and ask for them but unless buffs are absolutely warranted then there's no need for us to cry for any of them, LEAST of all an overhead ffs.

I used to think like this. Until I realized I enjoy winning even more than playing. When I lose to some Raiden or some a Sonya at my local, and then look at the patch seeing she got BUFFED, Liu Kang who was deemed "fine" but really wasn't got UBER BUFFED, but Kano got an Upball I'll barely use, a fix, and a joke, then I have a big issue with this.

 

[LEGI0N47]

And Legion I think you're forgetting about Noobe and Decay, they're both good Cybernetic Kanos too. Noobe just needs to optimise his midscreen bnb(s) is all.

I can't stand on my own shoulders muahahahaha god I can't wait to get my Necro going.

Yeah you're right I did overlook them with rant mode engaged. They deserve a nod too. However Noobe is a notorious uplayer. But turns out he's also been right about a lot of it too. I remember when people bagged on him for his Doomsday up play. To his credit he didn't give a singe fuck either.

 

[Youphemism]

I used to think like this. Until I realized I enjoy winning even more than playing. When I lose to some Raiden or some a Sonya at my local, and then look at the patch seeing she got BUFFED, Liu Kang who was deemed "fine" but really wasn't got UBER BUFFED, but Kano got an Upball I'll barely use, a fix, and a joke, then I have a big issue with this.

Well then you'll either have to accept that Kano is one of the most well-balanced characters in the game that really only NEEDS fixes but could do with a few buffs or stick with Pyro Tanya. Easy mode wins or character loyalty?

Also consider this:
Kenshi mains were crying and hated that he didn't get touched in one of the patches then got super buffed the next patch.
Then the Kitana mains were crying that she needed buffs and she got mega buffed in the patch after that.
The Sub Zeroes are crying about him not getting touched right now... If Sub Zero doesn't get touched at all in the next patch then my theory will be proven wrong but I've been right so far. Most of the Kanos have only really started crying for buffs more lately, so see you in the next patch

 

[LEGI0N47]

This has been a pocket theory of mine as well. It seems to have held true for the most part.

However knowing what I know now having people call my char Honest or Balanced is a clear sign that they are hardly in the middle of the pack. One simply can not compete with the top half of the cast in an honest fashion.

But it is fun as hell to win with him. But sometimes you need the extra juice that a top 10, or even15 char can bring to punk these people abusing shit that he can't deal with/compete against very well.

 

[Error]

Whenever I read the term "honest character" I read it as low tier, Kano is the last character that should be considered honest, what the fuck.

 

[SaltShaker]

Whenever I read the term "honest character" I read it as low tier, Kano is the last character that should be considered honest, what the fuck.

Hahaha!!!! Exactly. Like what does that even mean? "Your character is so honest" as if it's a compliment. How does being "honest" help when Raiden is being as dishonest as Pinocchio???

 

[haketh]

Best post in the forum in a while.

For a clear example, at my local where I usually play well I played our best Sonya, Covert Ops, in Losers Finals. I've played him about 500 times now total at functions or houses, maybe more. So I go Cyber Kano, what I've boldly called a favorable MU for over two months to everyone. Lost the 1st match, utterly spanked the 2nd match. Switched to Pyro Tanya and won 3 in a row to take the set. This is not the showing of a character who "needs nothing". I've put in countless hours with Kano and 2 n a half weeks with Tanya and already I'm way better with her.

Look at the roster. We just saw 3 more characters shoot ahead of Kano and become viable enough to use solo. This is exactly what I said would happen and it's happening. Where's Kano? Day 1 he was Top 10. Today he is a couple characters away from Bottom 5. Bottom 7 according to my updated rankings. Where's the "Kano symbolizes how the game should be played" now when the game ISN'T played that way???

I'm going to address TYM on this very, very soon and tag the Kano players. Enough is enough. Either he's going to get an upgrade or I'm jumping fully ship with Pyro Tanya and an alt of Shinnok or Liu. I've already made him a secondary to Tanya but if "he's fine" stays the narrative I'm done. At this point as you said the only people that think he's fine are those who don't use him, don't care to know the issues, or 3 Kano players.

One missed patch of buffs away from Bottom 5 is where he stands.

This says alot about how awful NRS patching is then anything yeesh

And I actually agree with you a bit , I think Kano was more than fine pre patch & right now is a damn solid character buuuuuuuuuuut characters that were worse than him got some really silly buffs. Not gonna say it was the crying exactly that did it but Lui got some silly stuff when he was definitely at the same tier as Kano & was a fine character but that community cried a ton. I don't know how to feel about this.

 

[SaltShaker]

This says alot about how awful NRS patching is then anything yeesh

And I actually agree with you a bit , I think Kano was more than fine pre patch & right now is a damn solid character buuuuuuuuuuut characters that were worse than him got some really silly buffs. Not gonna say it was the crying exactly that did it but Lui got some silly stuff when he was definitely at the same tier as Kano & was a fine character but that community cried a ton. I don't know how to feel about this.

Honestly that is what it feels like. Liu and Kano imo were twins as far as placement. The only difference is that their community cried endlessly and most of ours were like "Kano's solid enough, let's see how things play out". Well now all the characters around his level or below, Liu, Kenshi, Shinnok, Kitana, etc have all passed him while he still stays the same, essentially dropping him down. What was deemed as "fine" now is just flat out inferior compared to 2/3rds of the cast, and apparently silence and small rational suggestions leads to being overlooked.

We might all have to unite, declare him Bottom 1, ask for a 6 frame OH, EX Knives that hit OH/Low/OH, and a Zod ground laser in order to get buffs to stay viable.

 

[DFC]

Honestly that is what it feels like. Liu and Kano imo were twins as far as placement. The only difference is that their community cried endlessly and most of ours were like "Kano's solid enough, let's see how things play out". Well now all the characters around his level or below, Liu, Kenshi, Shinnok, Kitana, etc have all passed him while he still stays the same, essentially dropping him down. What was deemed as "fine" now is just flat out inferior compared to 2/3rds of the cast, and apparently silence and small rational suggestions leads to being overlooked.

We might all have to unite, declare him Bottom 1, ask for a 6 frame OH, EX Knives that hit OH/Low/OH, and a Zod ground laser in order to get buffs to stay viable.

What he needs is an attacking teleport that's +10 on block. It's on all variations and it leads to an easy juggle(60% meterless with the damage buff it provides)

 

[LEGI0N47]

This says alot about how awful NRS patching is then anything yeesh

And I actually agree with you a bit , I think Kano was more than fine pre patch & right now is a damn solid character buuuuuuuuuuut characters that were worse than him got some really silly buffs. Not gonna say it was the crying exactly that did it but Lui got some silly stuff when he was definitely at the same tier as Kano & was a fine character but that community cried a ton. I don't know how to feel about this.

You seem like a good guy and I'm not attempting to blow you up, just pointing something out. Notice the underlined red above. I think that is why we are where we are with Kano compared to other characters. See it's so engrained around here that people don't even realize it. Everyone says those things, yet most will agree that there are maybe 10 chars that he's better than. AND that all just changed! Damn Solid!

Plus we don't downplay. Because when we talk about his short coming's they're almost all very real. God that's sad.

 

[UltraDavid]

This kinda bugs me but I think you're all right about NRS patching. I thought Kano was about top 10-15 at the start, then other characters shot by, and now more characters shot by. I never complained about Kano because I thought he was good! All his variations were legit, he was fun, he was good. Why would I complain? I guess lots of you felt the same. Meanwhile players of other characters complained up a storm, and they've almost all been buffed as a result.

Then when they do buff Kano, it's with things that afaik nobody asked for. Safe ex up ball unless the opponent crouch blocks? I guess, but nobody needed that, and honestly I hope they revert it at some point because it's stupid for such a fast move to be safe. More damage on the second hit of ex ball? Sure, but that doesn't really change anything. Safe choke? Cool, commando gets to fish around with choke now, that's nice! But it doesn't really fix the few problems he has.

So, maybe you're right that we do have to be more vocal about Kano needing buffs. That sucks, I really don't want to play that game. But maybe you're right.

 

[haketh]

You seem like a good guy and I'm not attempting to blow you up, just pointing something out. Notice the underlined red above. I think that is why we are where we are with Kano compared to other characters. See it's so engrained around here that people don't even realize it. Everyone says those things, yet most will agree that there are maybe 10 chars that he's better than. AND that all just changed! Damn Solid!

Plus we don't downplay. Because when we talk about his short coming's they're almost all very real. God that's sad.

I jsut don't think theirs anything that's really wrong about Kano even now though it's very possible a bunch of characters jumped over him. Especially after Choke got buffed, he has a WU you can just throw out, & some of the best normals & backdash in the game. I dunno, I'm not totally sure on where I would place Kano now it's early & I don't wanna say it's grim but it remains to be seen.

 

[haketh]

So, maybe you're right that we do have to be more vocal about Kano needing buffs. That sucks, I really don't want to play that game. But maybe you're right.

Yeah this is where I'm at, begging for buffs aint my style. It wasn't even my thing when I was playing Baraka, Sub, Kano in MK9. When I realized they couldn't hang I dropped a few suggestions then moved onto other characters. But now it's just like, I like Kano & think he still has good tools but he's possibly getting passed up for no good reason.

 

[LEGI0N47]

I dunno, I'm not totally sure on where I would place Kano now it's early & I don't wanna say it's grim but it remains to be seen.

For the most part fair enough....but that option select though. You know how you really feel. You say it in a round about way in the post below the one I quoted.

And hell yeah he's getting passed up! However I disagree with some of the best normals. Lets go with decent. And the backdash is erroneous when there are chars with set ups and normals that punish all back dash attempts :/

 

[haketh]

For the most part fair enough....but that option select though. You know how you really feel. You say it in a round about way in the post below the one I quoted.

And hell yeah he's getting passed up! However I disagree with some of the best normals. Lets go with decent. And the backdash is erroneous when there are chars with set ups and normals that punish all back dash attempts :/

There was no option select, I stand by my statement that he still has good tools but it's POSSIBLE he's been passed up & even if he has I stil think he's more than viable.

 

[MUERTE]

you jobbers need to step ur game up and get kano some real buffs, this shit is embarrassing

 

[LEGI0N47]

There was no option select, I stand by my statement that he still has good tools but it's POSSIBLE he's been passed up & even if he has I stil think he's more than viable.

I was talking about the it's early statement.

Good tools is not cutting it when others have ridiculous tools. And when some of his don't work properly. He's rather viable for where he sits, but again you put in twice the work to make him work against actual good players. At this point he's a loyalist char IMO.

 

[UltraDavid]

I was talking about the it's early statement.

Good tools is not cutting it when others have ridiculous tools. And when some of his don't work properly. He's rather viable for where he sits, but again you put in twice the work to make him work against actual good players. At this point he's a loyalist char IMO.

yeah i totally agree. commando's midscreen meterless damage is garbage, if you want real damage you have to spend a bar and then get way too tight with your links, it's not even practical imo. and why does cyber even have the standing reset chain? he doesn't have a 50/50, so why bother? speaking of 50/50s, cutthroat has to be HOW close to actually land his safe on block overhead chain that leads to easy 40-70% damage comb... i mean, i'm sorry, i'm still getting used to this. his antiairs suck, he has to spend bar to beat scorp jump 3 unless he has the right positioning!

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

Choke is still negative on hit, correct? If so....


BOOOOOOOOOOOO I want a top 10 Commando and I want it now!!

#verucasalt

 

[Error]

Commando problems:
Low damage midscreen
Lack of mix-ups
No threatening tick throws for a character who relies on command grab damage.

I think 2F4 being an overhead(inb4PaulyD) would give him an interesting mix-up, 2 B3, 2 ex knife, 2 grab etc

If B312 launched high enough to get a F4xxspecial at the end midscreen he could do some damage

And of course, make one of his good strings tick.