Should a backdash really cost a stamina bar?

[OG Mannimal]

I don't want to say that defensive options are lackluster in MKX, since I actually think stuff like AAs are pretty good. The problem is that offensive options are way stronger with way less drawbacks. Back dashes cost 1 stamina bar, only have slight invincibility, don't cover substantial distances, and have a bunch of recovery frames. Compare that to running, which costs less stamina for the same distance as one backdash, can be cancelled into anything at anytime, and actually improve the hurtbox of some attacks, well, that's just not good design. Not to mention that many characters have forward advancing strings that move further than most backdashes themselves.

 

[Prinz]

Yes, but they should be fully invincible or have no recovery frames at all.

 

[james1926]

I think 1 stamina bar cost on backdashes was an excellent idea. If you run in and your opponent gets you on a combo you will not be able to break even if you have full meter. Based on that fact, the defender shouldn't be able to break immediately as well (if you backdash and get punished). Furthermore after a breaker, the attacker is on some sort of a small advantage because the defender has empty stamina bar and he cannot run nor backdash, which is kinda reasonable considering he just escaped damage.

Maybe backdashes need better recovery, but 1 stamina bar cost should never change.

 

[MK_Al]

I think it's good the way it is, you just have to know when you can backdash and when you can not. People should rather work on their footsies.
What's wheird though is that FWD dash doesn't cost anything.
Maybe jumping should cost 1/4 bar as well lol

 

[Hellbringer]

Backdashes need to be free just like forward dash is free. I really dont understand the logic why one costs stamina and the other dont.

 

[WakeUp DP]

It has invincibility ofc it should coast meter.

Now I only wish they made them cover more distance.

Also buff walking back for better whiff punishing, so far its hard to whiff punish since strings have so many active frames.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I think its fine as it is. However i would make the breaker button not cost stamina. You have already given two bars, then you're a sitting duck to 50/50s etc

If breaker didn't cost stamina then it wouldn't be as risky to just run in on somebody. If someone uses all their stamina rushing you down they should be at risk if you manage to defend against all of it. All the complaints about run up 50 50 will skyrocket because punishments can be broken immediately. Fbc pressure would be even better because when their loop is over they can still break, not to mention they just built a bar.

 

[Scoot Magee]

It has invincibility ofc it should coast meter.

Now I only wish they made them cover more distance.

Also buff walking back for better whiff punishing, so far its hard to whiff punish since strings have so many active frames.

The thing is they have characters who's strength is good walk speed like lui kang.

 

[WakeUp DP]

Uh since when does doing damage constitute a good anti air? In Street Fighter you get way less damage for Anti airing than in MKx as it is usually like one DP or one uppercut. In MKX you can convert into combos off of half of those options and the other half lead to a full combo punish.

In SF4 you can 2 frames meterless invincible DP into a full ultra for 30-70% lol...

 

[Scott The Scot]

Backdashes need to be free just like forward dash is free. I really dont understand the logic why one costs stamina and the other dont.

Backdashes have invincibility frames so if there's ANY gap in pressure or a string, you can backdash it. If someone Jumps in at you. Backdash. It's really good but people don't understand how to use it correctly or when to use it.

If it's during an advancing string and you backdash the gap but it advances and hits you - you made a bad decision; that's when you want to either respect the string if you're meterless or use an armoured special move. When you're using backdashing it's not an "oh no! He has an advantage lemme' mash dat backdash" that doesn't work. You need to time your backdash in response to the opponents move. It's quite useful if you use it correctly.

I mean for the love of god, people struggle with Kung Lao but you can reversal backdash hat spin whether it's EX or not after b321. It's not even hard to learn, people just refuse to practice it.

 

[RunwayMafia]

Yes, but they should be fully invincible or have no recovery frames at all.

This.

I mean...if it's going to COST a bar of stamina it better be worth it. Full invincibility. That alone would shake up this games meta perfectly.

 

[tatterbug4]

But couldn't players do like with scorpion. 21 fbc 21 fbc 21fbc back dash. Other characters could do that to. Or a cancel back dash should cost stamina

 

[Scoot Magee]

In SF4 you can 2 frames meterless invincible DP into a full ultra for 30-70% lol...

A little exaggerated but yeah you can get good damage off aa's in sf4. Dps are normally 3 frames and need meter to focus cancel and ultra though.

There's a ton of sf games where aa's lead to a lot of damage.

 

[Scoot Magee]

But couldn't players do like with scorpion. 21 fbc 21 fbc 21fbc back dash. Other characters could do that to. Or a cancel back dash should cost stamina

Another good point. Scorpion can safely retreat after fbc pressure.

 

[Scott The Scot]

This.

I mean...if it's going to COST a bar of stamina it better be worth it. Full invincibility. That alone would shake up this games meta perfectly.

No. Backdashes are hard to use but people just want easy mode "I want to escape every situation ". Once again (4th time) please look at Doctor Stabs vs Michelangelo at ECT pools. It's possible to learn how to time your backdashes correctly, you just have to put the work in and learn.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Considering what's posted on the Internet on a daily basis it's very hard for me to tell if someone is being sarcastic unless I know them.

 

[vicious1024]

In SF4 you can 2 frames meterless invincible DP into a full ultra for 30-70% lol...

Of the extremely limited list of characters that can meterless AA DP into Ultra, who among them does up to 70%?

 

[Hellbringer]

Backdashes have invincibility frames so if there's ANY gap in pressure or a string, you can backdash it. If someone Jumps in at you. Backdash. It's really good but people don't understand how to use it correctly or when to use it.

If it's during an advancing string and you backdash the gap but it advances and hits you - you made a bad decision; that's when you want to either respect the string if you're meterless or use an armoured special move. When you're using backdashing it's not an "oh no! He has an advantage lemme' mash dat backdash" that doesn't work. You need to time your backdash in response to the opponents move. It's quite useful if you use it correctly.

I mean for the love of god, people struggle with Kung Lao but you can reversal backdash hat spin whether it's EX or not after b321. It's not even hard to learn, people just refuse to practice it.

So your saying that if it doesnt cost stamina then ppl can abuse it? Im not sure what your point is...

 

[Doombawkz]

Yeah, sure.
Characters can get in, but what about the ones that can't?

F/T, Goro... No reason to make us even worse.

 

[Doombawkz]

Also something that bothers me is people saying the game is dominated by "offensive" play that outclasses the "defensive" aspect.
Like what? You have plenty of people saying it happens, but theres no real example of anything that doesn't have an answer.

Backdashes don't need buffing, the community needs buffing.

 

[IrishMantis]

I think they should recharge a lot faster that's for sure

 

[Scott The Scot]

So your saying that if it doesnt cost stamina then ppl can abuse it? Im not sure what your point is...

My point is that it's already really strong and doesn't need to be changed. I'm not sure about the word abuse because if the opponent knows you're going to backdash something then they can bait it out then run after you or do something that jails to catch you releasing block. It's a really good tool and shouldn't be free. Forward dashing is free because it's doesn't have invincibity frames and it doesn't set you up for a whiff punish or anything.

In my last message I started going on a tangent lol my apologies.

Also, imagine Kano with unlimited backdashes - godlike backdash range and speed combined with fast, mid hitting knives with the ability to use EX Knives as an anti-air if you try to jump over the knives. Like f*** me, man.

 

[Doombawkz]

I think they should recharge a lot faster that's for sure

But why?

You have a want, but why should it be that way?

Jesus the community is like "I wanna be able to do this" but the only explanations they can give are so niche and centralized that it makes me wonder if they've actually tried getting in as someone that doesn't have a teleport or dive kick of some sort.

Not to you specifically but...

"They need to be free" but WHY? So you don't have to block 50/50s or something? Maybe try not getting caught in the first place, or learning where to armor/backdash as is.

"Defensive options < offensive options". Show me a match that one player literally just runs forward and mashes buttons and the opponent just has to hold it. There is none, because the defensive game gives root to the offensive game. Players pick their moments, and thats what makes them great.

"They need to recharge faster". Why? If I get in on you, I shouldn't be punished for it. For some characters, we only get the one shot.

 

[RunwayMafia]

No. Backdashes are hard to use but people just want easy mode "I want to escape every situation ". Once again (4th time) please look at Doctor Stabs vs Michelangelo at ECT pools. It's possible to learn how to time your backdashes correctly, you just have to put the work in and learn.

Yes, I've seen your earlier posts and I'm not neccessarily disagreeing.

It's just that some backdashes are comeplete shit and still get hit due to it hardly being invincible.

I'm just fantasizing right now at how much I PERSONALLY would lovefor back dashes to have full invincibility. Lol

 

[M2Dave]

Also, imagine Kano with unlimited backdashes - godlike backdash range and speed combined with fast, mid hitting knives with the ability to use EX Knives as an anti-air if you try to jump over the knives. Like f*** me, man.

Imagine characters with safe 50/50 mix ups in a game with running, abundant teleports, and mediocre defensive options.

Yet you do not mind because you are an anti-zoning zealot and a scrub.