Should a backdash really cost a stamina bar?

[M2Dave]

Why can't offensive options get buffed?

Which offensive options need to be buffed?

 

[Death]

Says the fool who refuses to play Tanya until the teleport is "normalized". LOL.



I do not need to. I have fought DJT before. I am well-aware that he is one of the best fighting game players in this community.

Seriously, is there anybody in this community who is not a complete rush down fool or anti-zoning zealot or scrub who can make a legitimate argument as to why defensive options should not receive some type of universal buff?

Dave. I think you need to take a hard look at yourself on your defensive abilities. There is more to defensive options than fast horizontal projectiles.

I will be looking forward to our next online set

 

[Scott The Scot]

Which offensive options need to be buffed?

Don't take things out of context Dave, why don't you quote the rest of what I said to convey the tone, the point and the fact that the question is rhetorical:
"Dave said why can't defense options get buffed, my answer is why can't offensive options get buffed? Since we're wanting to buff things that don't need it, I can't see a reason not to".

You even capitalised my quote even though it's mid sentence in which I can only presume is to give the impression that that's the only thing I said, when in reality there's more to it. Fraudulent, pure fraudulent - I'm sad Dave, because I like you; it's a shame you're such an up and down player but never true and honest.

 

[Wemfs]

MKX was built for offensive rushdown. Defensive options are quite limited and confusing. Saying DJT has great defense doesn't have anything to do with what defensive options are actually in the game compared to all of the offensive options. DJT is a great defensive player, so of course anyone could just point to his gameplay and try to say defensive options aren't weak, when really they are.

Lets take a look at all of the defensive options we have, shall we?

Anti airing - Straight shit in this game, sorry. So there's that defensive option.
Back dashing - Ehhhhh..... works 50% of the time almost every time. #Kappa
Wake ups - Horrible.
Jumping Backwards - The distance a character can jump forward is a lot further than the distance they can jump back. Hmmmm.
Breakers - Fuck that 40%+ combo. Damn, now I have to sit here like a duck because I'm out of stamina and can't backdash out of pressure. Well at least I have decent anti airs, right? Oh wait. DJT, come save me.

 

[chackalacka]

The fact that some people in here have to cherry pick 2 or 3 top players to argue why defensive options are fair in this game, showcases the blatant irony. (clearly defense options are lacking somewhere)

Every successful fighting game in the competitive scene has a good balance of offensive and defensive tools. MKX so far has proven to be overly reliant on relentless offensive combat, which then leads into the corner to repeat the process. The only times I see an occasional defense tool used is either when one of the player breaks, and 4 seconds of spacing + zoning takes place or when a low tier character like Kenshi somehow makes the top 8.

 

[Big Pampering]

The fact that some people in here have to cherry pick 2 or 3 top players to argue why defensive options are fair in this game, showcases the blatant irony. (clearly defense options are lacking somewhere)

Every successful fighting game in the competitive scene has a good balance of offensive and defensive tools. MKX so far has proven to be overly reliant on relentless offensive combat, which then leads into the corner to repeat the process. The only times I see an occasional defense tool used is either when one of the player breaks, and 4 seconds of spacing + zoning takes place or when a low tier character like Kenshi somehow makes the top 8.

You need to patch your game, kenshi sint low tier anymore

 

[M2Dave]

Dave. I think you need to take a hard look at yourself on your defensive abilities. There is more to defensive options than fast horizontal projectiles.

There is more to offense than 50/50 mix ups, but yet you love them because they suit your gameplay style.

Don't take things out of context Dave, why don't you quote the rest of what I said to convey the tone, the point and the fact that the question is rhetorical:
"Dave said why can't defense options get buffed, my answer is why can't offensive options get buffed? Since we're wanting to buff things that don't need it, I can't see a reason not to".

You even capitalised my quote even though it's mid sentence in which I can only presume is to give the impression that that's the only thing I said, when in reality there's more to it. Fraudulent, pure fraudulent - I'm sad Dave, because I like you; it's a shame you're such an up and down player but never true and honest.

Your entire argument is fraudulent and disingenuous. If you play, or even observe, the game, you know very well that defensive options are not as effective as offensive options. The meta game for all top tier characters involves some type of 50/50 mix up or continued pressure. There are no characters in this game who can solely win by zoning, turtling, or playing footsies, which you may view as a positive aspect of the game. But I personally would like to see more variety in this game, so I am arguing for better defensive options.

 

[Scott The Scot]

@Wemfs - Well reasoned points sir, I'd like to comment on them

Anti airing - Straight shit in this game, sorry. So there's that defensive option. - Agreed. Forgot about anti-airing.

Back dashing - Ehhhhh..... works 50% of the time almost every time. #Kappa - Lol level up scrubby mcdubby they're fine.

Wake ups - Lets just give everybody armor and say fuck it. Why not a few invincibility frames for a bar on wake up? Idk. - EeeeEhh I don't know. It seems fair but it would be boring if the meta consisted of only wakeup or not wakeup. I haven't thought about what the invincibilty frames would do to the game as a hole.

Jumping Backwards - The distance a character can jump forward is a lot further than the distance they can jump back. Hmmmm. - I wasn't even aware of this, are you sure it's not because the camera changes how close to the players are depending on whether they're closer or further from each other? I can jump back and forward in the exact same spot and not change position. Are sure about this?

Breakers - Fuck that 40%+ combo. Damn, now I have to sit here like a duck because I'm out of stamina and can't backdash out of pressure. Well at least I have decent anti airs, right? Oh wait. DJT, come save me. - That's your punishment for getting combo'd, that + 2 bars of EX meter; don't get combo'd, the cost is great even if you evade it with a breaker. If DJT can be very defensive then so can everyone else, people want an option for every bad situation they're in and are opposed to making reads and being patient like DJT does, learn from him - he's doing something right clearly.

 

[Reauxbot]

Im going to say no. Ive backdashed and thanks to all the damned forward advancing normals and strings i get hit and comboed AND cant break. So now im fucked. :/ maybe like 1/4 or so.
But at least it makes you block better.
Try backdashing a good Kotal Kahn..especially War Kotal.

 

[Scott The Scot]

There is more to offense than 50/50 mix ups, but yet you love them because they suit your gameplay style.



Your entire argument is fraudulent and disingenuous. If you play, or even observe, the game, you know very well that defensive options are not as effective as offensive options. The meta game for all top tier characters involves some type of 50/50 mix up or continued pressure. There are no characters in this game who can solely win by zoning, turtling, or playing footsies, which you may view as a positive aspect of the game. But I personally would like to see more variety in this game, so I am arguing for better defensive options.

"Your entire argument is fraudulent and disingenuous" Don't tell me this, tell my WHY it is fraudulent and disingenuous. That's how debates work. I'd like to know that information that makes me what you said I am so that I can either defend my point or understand your point and agree or change my position.

Better anti-airs are the only defensive option that needs buffed I'd say. If you think you can't win by playing footsies then you don't know what footsies are. How do people set up the 50/50? By playing footsies - baiting your opponent to whiff or do something that leaves them vulnerable and taking advantage of them. Even though you have said that Sonic Fox's gameplay disgusts you, you fail to see that he doesn't JUST use one type of playstyle. That's ridiculous if you want to only play with zoning or only with rushdown. Fox stays at full screen sometimes and throws sand grenades or does the 3,2 string to zone to make the opponent come to him and play HIS game. That's how fighting games are played. You don't just pick a character with a projectile and throw it the whole match, there's no mind games or anything to that. If you're arguing for better defense options then make an argument or a statement of what you want specifically so everyone can evaluate and discuss.

http://sonichurricane.com/?p=691

 

[SneakyTortoise]

Yep, there's definitely no anti-airing in MKX

What, I need a corner for me to be able to convert off an anti-air?

I bet I can't even use low-profiling attacks to avoid jump in attacks

Pfft that's just one character, what are zoners supposed to do?

Well, sure. But Kenshi's been broke since MK9

But...

Sure, but can you do it against characters like Scorpion?

And one more for good measure

@Protagonist_1 Could you start running a course for people to enrol in or something?

 

[Eldriken]

You're clearly a moron that can't understand the basic concept that if players at the highest level of competition are able to win by playing defensively, then you don't need more defensive options. I'm done wasting my time, just adding you to the ignore list.

That Hollywood status has gone to your head. >.>

 

[Scott The Scot]

That Hollywood status has gone to your head. >.>

Are you on the list? Not the ignore list, the list to talk to him. If not clear out, bub! You ain't hollywood enough to speak to Mr. Tortoise without an appointment made at least one week waiting time of approval. On your way.

 

[Redk9]

Yep, there's definitely no anti-airing in MKX

What, I need a corner for me to be able to convert off an anti-air?

I bet I can't even use low-profiling attacks to avoid jump in attacks

Pfft that's just one character, what are zoners supposed to do?

Well, sure. But Kenshi's been broke since MK9

But...

Sure, but can you do it against characters like Scorpion?

And one more for good measure

@Protagonist_1 Could you start running a course for people to enrol in or something?

BODIED

 

[Eldriken]

Are you on the list? Not the ignore list, the list to talk to him. If not clear out, bub! You ain't hollywood enough to speak to Mr. Tortoise without an appointment made at least one week waiting time of approval. On your way.

Haha. I'm just giving him shit.

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

lol quan's backdash

 

[SneakyTortoise]

That Hollywood status has gone to your head. >.>

I hope you're joking and don't mean that!

 

[Scott The Scot]

Haha. I'm just giving him shit.

I'll be giving you shit if you don't clear out of the premesis soon, m8

 

[chackalacka]

Yep, there's definitely no anti-airing in MKX

What, I need a corner for me to be able to convert off an anti-air?

I bet I can't even use low-profiling attacks to avoid jump in attacks

Pfft that's just one character, what are zoners supposed to do?

Well, sure. But Kenshi's been broke since MK9

But...

Sure, but can you do it against characters like Scorpion?

And one more for good measure

@Protagonist_1 Could you start running a course for people to enrol in or something?

Your entire argument has relied on cherry picking... very simplistic

I can quite easily find several gifs showing how effective zoning looks in this game. However, most of us are aware that in competitive play, its a different story. The likelihood of zoning being consistent and successful is lower than it should be. Same applies to anti-airs..

 

[WATCHD0G]

God i really hope NRS sees this thread and takes it seriously. never understood the need to the stamina when the back-dashes are shitty to begin with

 

[SneakyTortoise]

Your entire argument has relied on cherry picking...

I can quite easily find several gifs showing how effective zoning looks in this game. However, most of us are aware that in competitive play, the likelihood of these zoning being consistent and successful is lower than it should be. Same applies to anti-airs..

Cherry picking? I even had more until I realised TYM limits you to 8 images per message.
I don't know what to tell you. If you can watch those 8 gifs and still say that anti-airing in MKX is "non-existent" or "shit" then we'll just have to agree to disagree and leave it there.

 

[Perdition]

@SneakyTortoise just dropped the hammer on this thread with that .gif illustration. Well done.

 

[atljonesbro3]

Why are people still arguing with sneaky tortoise? He doesn't even wanna discuss he just wants everyone to blindly agree with him or hell demonize you, insult you, and ignore you because you don't agree with him.

 

[Eldriken]

I hope you're joking and don't mean that!

Of course I'm joking.

 

[Error]

Of course I'm joking.

*sweats nervously*
"Pls don't put me in salt report."